Three and a half million people sign the petition for a rerun – that’s a lot of anger and frustration.
The Prime Minister resigns
The Opposition Leader is on the way out
The pound has dived
The stock markets have dived
Companies are planning to leave
Our credit rating is dropping
Brexit MPs are already going back on promises
Half the country is gleeful and gloating
Half are furious and frustrated
Europe want us out as quickly as possible
There is a promised hard-line on trade agreements from the EU to dissuade other countries from following suit
There is a hard-nosed visit from the USA to look at trade
Scotland is looking to veto the result and stop us going out
Scotland and Ireland are both demanding a referendum with the break-up of the UK
The exchange rate is already affecting prices – petrol is going up and the rest will follow.
There will be two to three years of turmoil fuelling decline in the economy
Our credit rating is going down
Boris has become a hate figure for half the country
We will have a new more right-wing government with austerity, cuts, privatisation and decimation of public services
The country is divided like never before
What an absolute mess.
So what is a way out of all this?
I would suggest:
- We hold off starting the process until we are more sorted
- The Tories and Labour have their Leadership processes
- We hold a general election
- The parties ask for a mandate to proceed with Brexit or to renegotiate with the EU
- We need a Prime Minister who is not tainted and can try to heal the rift that is so raw
- Perhaps Boris could then apologise for all his lies and false reassurances. Project Fear – as he so eloquently dubbed it is fast becoming Project Fact.
- I would like to see us back in the EU negotiating to sort out the problems rather than languishing under a Tory government with severe economic problems in an isolated corner.
Of the 3.5 mil, I wonder how many are by non-UK nationals?
On the home front, I don’t think anyone can have too much complaint if this situation loses some political dead wood. Changes in personnel within the Shadow govt is really quite unimportant.
Currency hasn’t dropped that badly 2-3%, considering inflation is currently about 0.5%, with the target figure at 2.5%.
Sturgeon’s comments yesterday are pie in the sky and she hadn’t even bothered to check her statements with legal council. That’s the strength of her hatred and dogma.
Whatever the EU wants, it’s still a 2 year exit period for UK to wind down.
The EU usually gets what it wants, for instance, of the last 72 instances where Britain has attempted to improve and democratise EU legislation there’s been a 100% failure rate.
Some are thinking that the Germans will look to the views of UK and build a working relationship that could put both countries above the rest and secure wealth and security.
Referendum heading for 4 million – all from abroad?
More uncertainty within Labour and Tories and a more right-wing government – not a problem?
Pound dropping again and looking to go a lot lower – not a problem?
Petrol to rise – prices to rise – not a problem?
House price drop – negative equity – interest rate hike – people losing their homes – not a problem?
Firms moving abroad – job losses – shrinking economy – everyone poorer – not a problem?
Two years of chaos – are you not being too optimistic?
New discovery – the Brexit plan
fag packet
Obviously not all! No, but it’s believed to be a proportion of signatures.
More right wing, perhaps and an almost certainly if Cruella gets the job. I hope she doesn’t.
Dropped again this morning with pound against dollar drop at 3.75%. It’s not helpful one bit, but give it a few months.
Petrol prices move for a host of reasons anyway.
In the EU mainland, petrol increased from 90 cents a litre in 2009 to 1.4 euros in 2014.
The plan was for interest rates to rise anyway.
House prices dropping has to be welcomed. But we’ve seen this situation many times before.
We don’t know yet if firms will move and talk is cheap.
Not too optimistic. Just optimistic!
Was it a King Size fag packet?
What proportion of 4 million do you reckon?
Pound still falling.
The petrol price rise is entirely due to the drop in the pound. Oil is bought in dollars. So that is a direct result isn’t it?
So interest rates won’t be affected by the crisis in the economy? They were going to go up anyway?
House price drops are good for anyone without a house but crap for anyone with one, aren’t they? Also crap for anyone after inheriting isn’t it?
Even the best optimist struggles with trying to suggest that firms aren’t moving out. The FTSE top 250 down 25%! That’s a hell of a drop.
You are one hell of an optimist. I’ll refer you to my pre-referendum list of outcomes – labelled as scaremongering Project Fear. Tick ’em off.
The certainty is that we will be worse economically – hopefully not too bad – the question is – is it worth it?
IDS – we didn’t promise £350 million per week to NHS. Boris – we did not say we would cut immigration. Looks like backtracking to me on lies and disingenuous campaigning.
As that Tory MP said – he lied because he didn’t expect to win. He thought it would be close and he’d come out of it in glory and take over Number 10 – that he was never an outer – that was pure ambition.
It would have to be a Kingsize packet because he can only write in big capital letters.
Unknown quantity – I’ve no idea of how many. But it’s logical there are some.
The dollar rules the world. Events in USA can advantage us so it works both ways in a never ending cycle.
Yes, the plan was inflation to rise up to 2.5%, not immediately, but slowly in increments. We have debts to pay off. Remember Labour?!
Let’s face it – house prices are a nonsense. Cripplingly impossible for newbies getting a first home.
Too many people have been accustomed to too easy money in this sector. It’s shocking.
I’m not too bothered about share prices – another convoluted load of bull and in a lot of cases total fakery with firms working wonders on figures.
IDS? Ignore every single utterance from him.
Were Boris’s comments in relation to now or the situation in 2 years time?
Since we’ll still be in the EU for a further 2 years, therefore, that means we have 2 years more of EU immigration policy to contend with. We’re not in any position to immediately start closing the door.
Yes, there was porky’s from all. It’s a question of weeding. I expected to hear contrivance and smoke and mirrors. What’s new?
But what we do know is the EU isn’t what it is supposed to be. Basically, it’s policy makers are too smothering and self-interested. And really, when you’ve tried to be heard 72 times on issues and got nowhere there comes a times when you’re forced to call it a day and throw in the towel.
Name me one senior politician that has little self interest?
Even the seemingly placid Corbyn is determined to hold on.
They are weeding as efficiently as they can. You have to put in post codes and names. They have a computer programme to weed out any suspect. I understand they’ve removed 80,000. 3,750,000 now and growing.
How did you know the plan on interest rates? There was speculation about a small incremental increase but that scale would cripple lots of people!
I don’t think they’ll be too many ordinary people getting easy money in any time to come, do you?
Basically Boris and IDS said anything they could to sway people. They lied through their teeth. They knew that they would not solve immigration via Brexit and that the economy would shrink. The still lied and told everyone we’d be better off – it was Project Fear and scaremongering – they put themselves and their own ambition above the good of the country and used fear to sway people – that’s what they did didn’t they? They harnessed the fear of immigrants and the patriotic sovereignty by stoking up the fear of foreigners. A populist trick played through the ages – ‘You’re better than them, you’ve been born with white skin, he exclaims, while the negro’s name is used it is plain in the politicians game as he rises to fame’ to quote Dylan. That is why they created such hatred.
Who knows what Boris means – he just spouts off.
You and I expected lies but most people are more gullible.
Yes the EU needs overhauling. But it still is the only international perspective on workers rights, human rights, environmental issues, crime, terrorism, population control, law etc. I want that international perspective, don’t you?
So that’s alright ten? We don’t expect much of our politicians do we? We expect them to lie.
My weeding comment was in reference to weeding out the truths from the fabrications/exaggerations.
We’ve huge debts! I read about it in the FT ages ago at the point of speculation and it seems their going that route. The the easiest way to pay them off is by inflation. Small increments, compound interest rate calculations which all add up over time. 2.5% is by no means an excessive rate. We’ve had higher rates before.
I’m talking about people making a killing on a property sale.
8 years ago I made £200k profit when I sold a flat I had! It’s shocking, even though I say it myself, but I’ve nothing to do with inflated house prices.
The Leave campaign was full of just as much hot air.
It helps if the public at large knew a bit more about all the pros and cons but that’s too utopian to be realistic. Look at the commentary from some from both sides on the TV. You’ve got to wonder really – did they understand anything here, other than an emotional pull either way?
Didn’t everybody know they wouldn’t solve immigration immediately? How could they with 2 years to go?
Didn’t everybody know there would be economic swing?
I really don’t think they harnessed quite the level of immigration fear that you claim, in fact I think that aspect was tempered down. One poster issued at the 11th hour isn’t going to cut it. It’s the people themselves who live in the midst of it that have made that decision. Most of them are long term residents and not the transients of London. That’s why there’s such a difference of opinion on this.
The Dylan analogy is pure fantasy as nothing of the kind was said. You know yourself that too many areas are top heavy with immigration.
I don’t think you are giving enough credibility towards the many that were fully aware of the repercussions of Brexit. It was no secret that the initial stages may be tough.
It actually didn’t need Boris & Co. to spearhead this movement as individuals – they are simply the figureheads of the due process – as many were sick and tired of the EU and not at all happy with it. You surely didn’t think Boris & Co brought this natter in out of the blue?
The more we look at the EU, the more intolerable it is.
That’s the bottom line here.
Decimalisation was tough with pretty much the same immediate results. The process of actually joining the EU was tough. Any major change is tough and always was and will be.
There’s nothing we can do to stop politicians lie. That mental dwarf Sturgeon does it every time she opens her crack in a pie. They work a system that allows such. That’s the problem, the system.
It’s a long slow process, but changes to bs are happening.
The House of Lords being an example, with no more hereditary Peers etc.
Amplification of scrutiny to MP’s abilities and achievements,
dead wood not being tolerated, live TV coverage of parliamentary debate etc., all things we didn’t have too long ago.
Well you know Andrew the EU is an organisation that certainly needs a lot of work to make it more democratic, less bureaucratic and more accountable. It certainly needs a better way of dealing with things. That goes without saying. There’s a lot wrong with it. I can understand people taking an idealistic stance. But I don’t think that was the reason people voted out.
The main reason was immigration and that needs addressing and nobody has done it. The Brexiteers focussed on it and whipped it up for all they were worth with scare stories of Turkey and Muslims waiting at the border. Now they are admitting that they will not be able to do anything more about it. We’ll be locked in to the same situation through any trade agreement. They are backtracking like mad because it was lies.
The country were duped and many people did believe that immigration would be halted and that the economy would not suffer. Every time an ‘expert’ spoke they weren’t met with logic – just rhetoric – scaremongering and Project Fear. Now we will see if all those warnings were based on fact or not. Personally I think they were.
It’s one hell of a risk to take – crashing the economy and breaking up the UK without a hope of dealing with immigration.
All those lies about how the £350 million a week (sic) was going to be spent on the NHS and all the EU subsidies met etc. Not a hope in hell. With a crashing economy there will be cuts and tax rises galore.
People believed the bullshit.
I predict rioting in the next couple of years – civil breakdown. What do you reckon?
Some people no doubt believed every word from Brexit.
Some people no doubt think the EU is the best thing since sliced bread and voted Remain.
I can’t answer for any of them.
I think we may very well see rioting in Germany before we ever do. I predicted such ages ago.
What if EU policy was costing every man, woman and child in Britain the same that’s costing the Germans, E19,500 each, would you still want to be in the EU?
Depends what we were getting in return. If it creates far greater prosperity, stability and peace it might well be worth it.
If the alternative is war any price is better. And I personally wouldn’t rule that out. Once you chuck everything in the air nobody knows how it comes down. You think Putin is benign. I think he will be pushing into more than the Ukraine. If that happens we could be drawn in.
You say both sides lied but I didn’t hear that. The warnings coming out seem to be coming real. The biggest drop in the financial market since the crash of 86? More than the financial crisis six years ago. the pound dropping further and further. It looks dreadful to me. What about all the reassurances from Brexit of scaremongering? If anything they might not have been stating it strong enough.
So what were the lies from remain? I don’t know of any.
I know the lies that came from Brexit. I’ve stated some of them.
I do still want to be in the EU. I think it is outward looking and if we could overhaul it we could get it to work.
Are you really happy with what is going on in the wake of the vote?
You didn’t see any lies from Remain? Come off it!
Didn’t you get the leaflet they sent out? I’m certain you did and have been quoting it so often that I reckon the ink has worn off your copy!
Here’s 2.
What about Will Straw – Director of Remain campaign’s activity. He actively used the death of Jo Cox as a coaching tool with pro-Remain campaigners and instructed them to openly criticise Brexit campaigners for “stirring and resentment”. He went on to add “this is what we think is the closing argument of the campaign”.
He was seeking to make political gain on the back of her, as a campaign emotional tool.
If that isn’t low, well I really don’t know what is.
I saw through that myself and said so here before the vote.
If I saw it, therefore, so did many others.
On the other hand what about Lord Rose of Monewden (used to run M&S) – Head of Remain campaign.
“Nothing is going to happen if we come out of Europe in the first 5 years…there will be absolutely no change. It’s not going to be a step change or somebody’s going to turn the lights out and we’re suddenly going to find that we can’t go to France, it’s going to be a gentle process.”
All this talk of losing security and border controls is utter crap.
The scaremongering was very much the doings of the Remain campaign.
Btw, £10 mil of taxpayers money was spent on that Remain leaflet sent to 27 mil homes.
The Dutch recently gave the EU a punch on the nose in their referendum as they too are sick of being ruled by an unelected, foreign cabal.
I can’t agree with that Andrew. There was a strong feeling that Jo Cox was murdered as a direct result of the hatred and xenophobia stirred up by the Brexit camp. In any case that wasn’t a lie, was it? It might not have been good tactics or pleasant but it actually might turn out to be completely true. The guy who murdered her appears to have been motivated by his racist xenophobic attitude. He killed her because she had done a lot of work for migrants – hence ‘Britain first’. Yes it was low to use her death that way but it wasn’t a lie, was it?
Once again I disagree – repeated warnings were talked of as scaremongering. They weren’t and aren’t. They are proving themselves more than true. I was listening to the news just now and it is dire.
Our credit rating downgraded
pound in freefall
Shares in freefall
Multinationals packing their bags
Europe taking a hard line
Racists on the streets
The economy heading for a major recession
Labour Party in meltdown
Tory Party in open war
4 million signing the petition for a rerun
Nobody wanting to press the button because they are shit scared of what will happen
Boris spouting inane stupidity
Hatred and division
Gloating and misery
We are looking to be completely screwed. It could be a disaster like we’ve never experienced. We are on the brink of complete chaos and social breakdown. There will be violence and rioting next.
You can’t say warnings were scaremongering when they turn out to be true.
What Lord Rose said in that quote (I don’t know where that came from) doesn’t make sense. Sounds more like a Brexit claim. Everyone was saying that if we go out the shit will hit the fan and it is.
But I can cite you a whole string of real lies that came from Brexit.
£10 million of money wasted and should never have happened – but not a lie.
The EU needs a punch on the nose. But completely fucking your country up for some protest or idealistic dream, or fear, is daft. Particularly when it will not achieve its aims one little bit.
They are backtracking on every promise made because they know they can’t deliver – NHS, Subsidies, Immigration. It’s a joke.
Andrew I think you’re arguing for a duff cause. Brexit haven’t got a clue how to get us out of this mess. And we are on a precipice that could tip us into a real misery. It was all lies and mirage.
I can understand why you wouldn’t want to agree. Mr. Straw is on tape saying such, recorded by a Remain campaigner via a conference call and subsequently leaked out.
I think you need to check out the White Helmets. Jo Cox got duped by them and took them at face value. There’s also something not absolutely too alright about her husband’s background either.
Remember that recent photograph of “refugees” swimming in the sea? That’s the work of the White Helmets and these people were actually just standing waist deep on the shore. Whilst about 20 are seen apparently struggling, one guy is standing up smiling.
Ignore the TV news, it really isn’t going to tell you very much.
Check out Rose’s comments for yourself.
The BS is of no interest to me. I’m way ahead of the mickey mouse beginner’s level.
I didn’t need either Remain or Brexit to sway me.
I’m actually not arguing at all. I’m simply supplying alternative info. Remember I’m not a fully paid up member of any wing. I’m apolitical-centric.
You don’t know which way I voted. I never said.
Bu there’s a bigger picture, ie. another 169 countries to work with.
It’s only Monday and absolutely nothing has happened except a few shadow govt people falling out over spilt milk.
Well Andrew you say nothing has happened? I find that hard to understand.
Our Credit rating been downrated which affects the cost of paying off the interest on the huge borrowing this government has been taking on which will cost us ten of billions.
The pound has dropped through the floor
The market has dropped hugely wiping heaven knows how many billions off the country
Multinationals are saying they will relocate
The UK is in danger in splitting up
There is hatred on the streets
There is division like never before
The Tories are in chaos
The Labour Party is ripping itself apart
The Brexiteers have no idea or plan
The Brexiteers are backtracking on all their promises – immigration, funding for NHS
I can’t actually see how anything worse could have happened.
The hope is that the markets settle so that the cost is not as great as it might be.
The hope is that the social division settles.
The hope is that the political chaos produces a clear unified leadership.
From the way I see it all three of those things will happen. But the markets won’t return us to the prosperity we enjoyed because our economy will inevitably shrink. The social situation will settle but it will not ever be as good as it was because the racists and xenophobes feel that they have been given validation. The political situation looks like producing a right-wing government with years of austerity and destruction of public services.
The question to my mind is simply how bad will it get?
Just yesterday the former governor of the Bank of England said along the lines of “it’s no big deal, happens for for a number of reasons and the markets will work themselves out”
Considering UK has a 16% share of the Euro market, I really don’t think we’re in any danger.
The UK has been in danger of splitting since the SNP was formed in 1934. Again, it’s also some time off yet for another referendum on that. The political commentators said last night it was at least 18 months – 2 years off. I said so earlier.
They also confirmed what I also had said that the vote of leaving the EU and UK are not at all the same.
The Tories aren’t in chaos but merely electing a new leader.
Albeit sooner than expected. But if Cruella gets in it may well be as she’ll be having the G4S running the police. Then we won’t be able to sneeze.
Labour, well yes they are a disaster. A basket of snakes there and too many toys are being thrown out of prams.
We don’t know the Brexiteers plan yet. It hasn’t been issued. There is zero evidence to suggest otherwise.
What we do know is there won’t be much change regards EU trade as we have 16% of it.
I don’t think 85 reports represents hatred on the streets. That’s probably an average on any given day in a country of 64.5 million people.
Any of these Fascists meetings struggle to attract more than 2 dozen, so it’s hardly xenophobia running riot.
I think our economy has every opportunity to expand to levels previously unknown. We’ve sat doing the same thing in the same zone for 40 years are haven’t really gone out of our way to trade with the rest of the world in the scale that we should have been. We’ve got good in-roads in quarters that we can expand on.
The EU has been slowly but surely dragging our people to mere assignees and deprives sovereignty.
Had it not, things would have different.
I look forward to us becoming like Canada or Australia.
Fully sovereign, free trade deals and a careful immigration policy.
Look on the bright side. We won’t be subjected to any more Euro junk like The Pizza Boys’ “Oh Le Le”! (see youtube)
He would say that wouldn’t he?
I’m glad you are so optimistic.
No I said in two years – you said it made it far less likely and pooh poohed that.
Off course the Tories are in chaos. They have no clear ideas. They are split and hate each other. There is no chance of them being united. Whoever gets in will be trying to hold together a civil war. Boris is hated. You think it is just a leadership election?
Labour are in a huge mess and Corbyn is simply making it worse.
They don’t have a plan. You must be joking. Not only that but every one of them wants a different thing. I’ll be interested to see how they reconcile all those different views.
I’m sure there will be benefits. I’m struggling to see any at the moment.
Oh no matey boy. You go back to the original comment that I made on this and you will see that I had said 18 months to 2 years and I even explained exactly why it would take that length of time and what the due process requires to be. A 5th election, Scottish Parliaments Article #30 to deal with – not to be confused with Article #50 with the EU – passed by Hollyrood, passed by Westminster etc. Remember?
Don’t be stealing my words for your own. I ain’t buttoned up the back.
In fact you had intimated a Scottish referendum would happen very quickly, hence, why I had to correct you on that, as stated above.
For undeniable written evidence, please refer to :
“Scaremongering And Lies” post page.
1) My reply June 24 8:26 am, paragraph 3
2) My comment at 9:10 am, paragraph 2
3) My comment at 10:16 am
4) Your reply at 12:29 pm
5) My reply at 1:25 pm, paragraph 1, where I gave some detail of the procedure of events, minimum length of time etc.
I have no objections to anybody accepting my deductions (as proven to be correct) and points of view, but, must insist that there be no theft of “intellectual property”.
It must be hard having to correct me all the time and now I’m stealing your words?
OK.
It’s not too cool for you to accuse me of having pooh poohed what “you had said”, when in fact it was myself that conveyed such in the first place. And you commandeer my realistically correct and considered opinion for your own against me!
Get over yourself! And get your own head into gear and try and come up with an original thought.