Things I like about the European Union and things I don’t like

Posted on by Opher

Things I like:

  1. It has brought peace in Europe for the longest period in history
  2. It has brought in legislation to protect the environment and wild-life
  3. It has brought in legislation to protect workers rights and conditions
  4. It has brought in legislation on essential human rights
  5. It has unified countries in the fight against crime and terrorism
  6. It has created greater cooperation with intelligence gathering
  7. It has greater clout on the world stage and can negotiate better deals
  8. It supports the weaker countries and has helped raise their standards
  9. It has allowed free movement of goods without hindrance
  10. It has allowed me to travel, live and work anywhere in Europe without hindrance
  11. It has opened up European universities to British students
  12. It has opened up European jobs to British workers
  13. It has stimulated the economies of European countries
  14. It has brought prosperity

Things I don’t like:

  1. The freedom of movement has increased our immigration
  2. There is a wastefulness
  3. Corruption and bureaucracy
  4. Opening borders enables criminals and terrorists to move more freely
  5. It costs us money

I come down strongly in favour of staying in despite the negatives.

I think we should work hard on the inside to put a stop to the wastefulness, bureaucracy and corruption and stem the ‘gravy train’.

I think we should finance greater security and intelligence work to track down and arrest criminals and terrorists.

I want freedom of movement but we have to deal with the consequences.

I believe that as the present inequalities in Europe even out there will be less migration. We should focus on the inequalities. We should also look at ways of preventing such large numbers of migrants. I would like to see us working with our European colleagues to solve this (unemployment benefit etc).

Crime, terrorism, pollution, environmental destruction, wild-life protection, human rights and social conditions know no boundaries. They can only be dealt with internationally.

I want a move to global legislation and government with universal laws on environment and human rights.

I have no doubt that we are stronger and safer in and that the present problems can be dealt with through cooperation.

22 thoughts on “Things I like about the European Union and things I don’t like”

  1. I think just a little more thought time should have been spent on the things you don’t like. I reckon you’re a number of points short of the reality.

    I suggest a review of point 1 of things you like.
    2. ignored by many countries
    3. ignored by many countries
    4. ignored by many countries
    5. that which was brought to us by free movement in the first place
    6. because of above – like chasing a bolted horse
    7. for who? only the strongest
    8. the only measure being that being without communism, which we know does not work well
    9. ask any haulage company/truck driver and he’ll tell you there are more restrictions than ever before
    10. Personally speaking, I never had any problem with working in Europe as all I needed was an employer and a work permit which the employer is responsible for organizing.
    11. and obviously vice versa which is none too good for our own students who can’t get in to their local universities or afford to go abroad
    12. never was a problem if you had the required job skills
    13. it has created an “interactions internal to a command economy”, where parts are manufactured in an owner’s country, sent to another for assembly and sold in the owner’s country – this is not “real” trade
    14. for who?

    Impossible to stem the gravy train when it’s being manufactured 24/7

    We are financing security and at ever increasing record levels

    What exactly are these consequences of freedom of movement – as if we don’t know!

    Inequalities to even out? unless we lower our standards to that of others, we will always be a major attraction.
    It’s already going to happen – any migrant will have to have worked here for 4 years before qualifying for unemployment. One of Cameron’s policies.

    There are indeed boundaries as we already know why and where and they can only be enforced at local level

    Global laws on environment – slowly making progress
    A global government?! – that would be an unmitigated disaster and surely you have read enough good quality books to inform you just how much of an insane idea that is?

    I strongly disagree with your last point. Cooperation with who? those intent on wrecking Europe?

    1. Thanks for that Andrew.
      I agree Europe is far from perfect but I think it is far better than a Tory Britain and I have more faith in the legislation on human rights, workers rights and the environment.
      I want a global government with international laws that prevent environmental destruction, limit populations, prevent pollution and enforce human rights. I don’t think that would be a disaster. It might take some time to organise.
      Leaving Europe in my opinion is extremely dangerous and a big, big, mistake. If the business and bankers or lose confidence leave the economy crashes.

      1. Opher, on paper it all paints a picture postcard. But we’ve seen the results for ourselves and it ain’t pretty. We can do so much more for ourselves if we want to. And I think we’ve just been given that very necessary shove out of our inertia.
        Europe is fast becoming an endemic plague of lost principles and priorities. We’re always too slow off the starting block playing hide and seek with the facts. With the Tories now taking on Farage’s ideas of a points system. They know it makes sense.
        Personally, I just hated what I saw in Germany. It’s just too awful to contemplate. It’s a nightmare.

        You’re way, way ahead of yourself with global anything.
        You have to remove religion from the global spectrum to have the remotest chance of implementing any such ethos.
        We’d need a fundamental basis of equality and presently we are light years away from such.

        We have to deal with the “now”, your favourite “zeitgeist” as applicable.

      2. Oh I agree – we are way, way off – but if we don’t start moving towards it we’ll never get there. It’s the idealists who point the way.
        I don’t think Europe is a lost cause. We just have to make it work. The alternative is not at all rosy.

  2. But first we have to re-think the strategy at local level, that being European. We’ve got to stop doing what we are doing. We’re strangling ourselves for what? for who?
    Immigration into Germany is going to cost each German man, woman and child 19,500 Euros each per head – so far and rising.
    Tax breaks for German nationals having babies have been removed.
    Since Sweden commenced immigration, rape crimes have increased 1,400%.
    UN figures clearly state that immigration into Europe is this = 72% men, 13% women, 15% children.
    90% supposedly from Syria cannot prove that they are Syrian.

    I’ve never been known for quoting the Bible LOL! but I can think of some words of wisdom.
    “but while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat” – Matthew 13:25

    1. Well that is scary to quote bible!!
      Merkel is looking at the age demographic and need for workers. In the longer term they are needed to keep the economy going.
      It needs the Europeans to really sort themselves out. They have been absolutely useless.
      But the alternative of insular little nations is worse. It won’t stop the flood and it will create poverty and fear. We can’t lock ourselves away behind high walls in fear-ridden countries with gated communities.
      We need integration and a sensible immigration policy.
      We also need to do something about the birth rate around the world, fundamentalism, inequality, war, poverty and environmental degradation – all of which the West has been fermenting for its own ends.

      1. Yes, but the words themselves are right to the point, aren’t they!
        No Opher, Merkel is an apologist guilt tripping nut job and as I said previously, has zero personal investment.
        If they want to sort out the demographic – why the hell remove the tax breaks on Germans having babies – so you’re argument falls right flat there, doesn’t it?
        Germany already had a population of around 80.6 million in 2013! Just how many people do they need?
        And neither did they require gated communities.
        But they just might need some now!
        What she has done just does not make any sense at all. There has been absolutely zero consideration given to filling the job skills that they require. They’ve got a million migrants sitting in makeshift camps doing sfa, with zero contingency for work placement. She broke and ignored every law of common sense and basic economics.
        None of this has got a jot to do with population around the “rest of the world”. Please stick to the point in hand and stop going off into tangents. We’re talking about Europe, not west Africa!

        Actually, we don’t need any more immigration and integration has never worked very well when religious divisions are present. Germany never manged to integrate the Turks, nor France with the North Africans. Why do you think they can do any better now?
        We were lucky because the Jamaicans were Christian. But not so with the Pakistanis, who almost completely failed to integrate.
        You just have to read Enoch Powell’s 1968 speech for the reasons why. Unfortunately the stupid far left and far right completely misunderstood him. But his words ring ever so much truer than true day by day.

      2. Merkel is probably on a guilt trip but there is a bad demographic none the less.
        Andrew – you know what is happening in the Middle East and Africa directly affects Europe. It is by no means a tangent or off the point. Saudi, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Nigeria , Libya, Afghanistan, Iran – all of them inpact on us directly.
        No Andrew – I don’t agree. Powell was an old school racist and there has been many many good examples of integration with Huguenots, Jews, Jamaicans, Indians, Europeans and Pakistanis. There has been too many too quickly. That’s all. I don’t share your extreme pessimistic view. When I was a lad I grew up with Black, Jewish and Asian friends and they were perfectly Westernised.

  3. The alternative is back to nationalism, and to do a trade deal with China, more Chinese immigration, not just the wealthy. No one ever mentions the migrants who own London, buying up property for millions, and not even having to bother to rent it. Where is the media on this?

    1. Good point.
      You will find investigative and critical documentary TV programmes on BBC 4 TV and Channel 4 TV on the property issues in London. BBC Radio 4, too.

    2. There’s a bubble waiting to burst.
      The Chinese are a big worry. They are taking over large parts of Africa.

  4. I think you have to re-read Powell’s speeches in relevance to what was happening and study all his dealings throughout his career with those on either side. His work was incredible. His vision was incredible. That’s why he was hated because he was 10 times brighter than any of them.
    He intellectually pissed all over them from a great height.
    He was anything but old school racist. Absolutely anything but.
    I’m actually very surprised at you here on this. Both surprised and a bit disappointed, to tell the truth.
    As I suggest, read the speeches.
    There’s a beginners entry level precis on Wiki and you can dive deeper from there.

    1. I listened to Powell first hand. He was an academic. His speeches of blood on the streets were entirely wrong. He was referring to the commonwealth people from Jamaica and the Indian continent. The Blacks and Sikhs and Pakistani’s have integrated well. He did not believe in integration. He did not think it possible. He was someone who thought like my father – steeped in the old empire of Britain’s greatness. He was intelligent but blinkered by his perspective.
      The present day Islamic immigration is something he did not even have an inkling of.
      Andrew you are making the mistake of applying what he said over fifty years ago to a present-day situation.
      Your fear of Islam and Muslims I think is driving your logic.

      1. Opher, your memory does not serve you well here.
        His point was that we cannot dump a whole host of different peoples into a small area in a foreign country (the UK) and expect harmonious relations from either the indigenous population or from those with already pre-existing dislikes for each other, ie, Indians and Pakistanis. Barriers will be created and evidently barriers were created. Simples.

      2. But Andrew, that was only part of his argument. He had diatribes about the black man and white man never being able to get along.

    1. It gets a bit heated at times but these are really vexing issues. The whole issue of the break-up of Europe and Britain and our future, is so important. The Islamic fear created by ISIS and the mass immigration issue is being handled so badly by the West and has created a real crisis. We (Britain and the USA) created a monster when we started the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have allowed Saudi, Iran and Syria to ferment, destabilised Libya, Yemen and Nigeria. Israel and Palestine should have been sorted. We seem powerless to have any coordinated policy to deal with the mess we have created. It is burning up the world.
      In my opinion we are in danger of biting our nose off to spite our face because of it. As I said before – it could end up with the diminishing of power..

      1. Quite. I think we’ve already bitten off our nose.
        Thank you Tony Blair.

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