- We end up with a rabid right-wing government led by Johnson, Gove and Fox.
- That would spell mass privatisation and the decimation of our public services (schools and NHS are already suffering under the more moderate Tories with creeping privatisation and reduced funding)
- Human rights, workers rights and conditions and pay would be undermined.
- Deregulation would run slip-shod over environmental and health and safety in pursuit of profits.
- Our economy would drop through the floor causing decades of austerity and further excuse to decimate public services.
- The banking and insurance sectors might up sticks to Berlin to be at the centre of Europe which would bankrupt us.
- Other businesses might uproot to the mainland if we are no longer part.
- We would still be subject to the same bureaucracy and legislation if we wish to trade with Europe but we would have none of the advantages of free movement and no tariffs.
- We would have an increased risk of terrorism due to worse cooperation and intelligence exchange.
- We would create havoc in areas of the economy requiring free movement of workers.
- Our position on the world stage would be reduced. We would not carry much clout.
- Europe would be weaker and might split into bickering factions, protectionism and even conflict.
- We would have no unified defence against the Soviets.
- Our trading position with China, India and others would be weakened.
- I think the UK would split up – Scotland would go first.
- Our country would be ruled by a bunch of Eton old-boys who would look after their own at the expense of the rest of us. I’d much rather be governed from Europe.
We might descend from being the world’s seventh biggest economy to being a minor island on the fringe of Europe. We produce little, have no resources, no empire and no voice. Our children would live in a Third World country.
That’s my view – what’s yours?
I started to read your list and gave up, then gave it another chance and quickly ran through it for it only angered me. What rubbish Opher, the Vote Yes Campaign will stoop to any level to raise fear in those that have not yet decided. I had every intention of Voting Yes never for one moment did I think we should come out of Europe. Then Angela Merkel uttered the “come all welcome” or some crap like that. Then the floodgates were opened and even this Morning we are informed we have dangerous foreign Criminals we Cannot Deport, and this amount we have according to Theresa May would fill a small English Town. Utter, utter disgrace.
There are several reasons why I wanted Out of Europe but the main one is I want this Country to take back Control of it’s own Borders and if necessary Close the Borders. We need to copy Australia and what they did, they like us are an Island we cannot cope. We should not have to cope. Coastal Towns like mine are having these people dumped here. London is full of them, Marble Arch has become a centre for them, hanging out their washing in Hyde Park etc. Defecating and urinating where they want. committing Rapes and getting away with them. This is England we do not want these people or need them, one answer for them, send them back. We need to return to making our own Laws not have made Laws forced upon us by Europe. No one should come up with the crap being in Europe has meant World Peace since the last War, this is bollocks from Cameron and team, Corbyn not much better. You have the right to Vote as you desire as I do as everyone has, but don’t please Opher come out with such scaremongering. The Stay In Campaign are showing nothing but desperation.
My apologies, I should have said Good Afternoon to you.
Good afternoon Anna,
I agree with you about the immigration. We have far too much. But I don’t think coming out of the EU will solve that. Last year I understand half of the 330,000 immigrants were from outside the EU. Why did we let 155,000 immigrants in from outside when we have all the powers to stop them? Why do we not use the powers we have?
I want immigration at reasonable levels. I would do that in two ways –
Firstly I would apply the laws we have – I would stop immigration from outside the EU without good reason. If I was to camp in a public park I would be moved on or arrested. Why aren’t we applying the law?
Secondly I would work inside the EU to bring in rules to stop this migration – laws on employment, a time scale for workers to apply for benefits, a person having to have a job or suitable income, easy deportation etc. Britain needs to lead the way and get the mess sorted. Why haven’t they?
I believe it is best sorted internally.
I do not believe I am scaremongering. I have listened carefully to what has been said and thought about it long and hard.
I know what Johnson, Gove and Fox stand for and what they propose. They would decimate public services if they got a chance. They have said so. We already have an assault on the public services from the moderate Tories along with creeping privatisation. I agree with Major – they are rabid. That is why that fascist Marine Le Penn sides with them. Gove and Fox are nasty and Johnson, behind his court-jester buffoon image, is a cynical chancer.
Talk of fear mongering – they have been lying about the economy and talking up fear of terrorism and migration for all they are worth – and never a practical solution.
We have already seen the effects of deregulation with the BSE crisis. The Tories deregulated, the industry cut corners to maximise profits, they turned the temperature down. The sheep brains with scrapies went into the animal feed and wasn’t sterilised. It cost the country billions and destroyed our beef herd.
I listen to what bankers, economic experts and businessmen say. We produce nothing. Berlin is hugely jealous of our banking and insurance hub. If they entice them away to be at the heart of Europe we are in deep doo-doo.
We saw the effect of a lack of trust in the economy with Black Friday. Billions were wiped off in minutes. We could easily see the country bankrupt. It could happen and we’d all be worse off. It would make our contribution to Europe look like peanuts.
I travelled through Europe extensively in the seventies. Yugoslavia was a calm peaceful place. Who would have seen what was to come. Bosnia and now the Ukraine, Georgia. Russia is rearing its head.
What human rights and workers rights are Boris and his chums thinking of taking away. Rights that stop people being exploited? They were hard fought for and Britain was at the forefront putting them together. I don’t want to see them swept away. I want international laws on the environment, pollution, terrorism, human rights and workers rights.
I find the future of us coming out very scary indeed. We could end up a third world country and we could have a war in Europe. The UK would break up – Scotland would go first. We’d be left with a Tory government for ever. The economy could be blown to pieces. Public services would be privatised.
This was a highly stupid referendum to have got into. Cameron only promised it to win votes in the election and to keep his right-wingers on board. The result could be disastrous. A very stupid man.
Scare-mongering is playing things up. I’m looking objectively at what I see as very feasible outcomes. It won’t affect me. I have a house and pension. It will be our kids and future generations who’ll pay.
Other people may see things differently. I am trying to keep the emotion and scaremongering out of my thinking and look at the facts as I see them. I am happy to discuss it and explain why I feel the way I do.
One thing I know is that nobody has a crystal ball and nobody really knows what the outcomes will be. There are many possibilities.
From my perspective none of them look good.
There’s some fair points there, but not enough to entrust our future with those of other Euro nations. I use “our” in relation to the UK as a whole. Scotland indeed holds the Joker in the pack. Scottish people in general are sick to death with the complete bullshit coming from down south – on every level, be it the sneering conjecture of a large proportion of English people, be it the media and of course Westminster. Even the BBC weather reports who daily keep telling me there will be thunder and lightning in Scotland, when in fact I can’t actually remember when it last rained, every day for weeks has been warm and sunny and last night it was 28c in my living room. I was sitting half naked wearing a towel around my neck and all the windows wide open at 1am. Too hot for anything covering me in bed etc. Do we laugh – you bet we do! I think my fellow average Glasgow people (which let’s face it, is where the majority live) have had quite enough of this experiment with “diversity” and immigration policy and in the words of many if challenged would be met with such as “get tae f***!” It’s over, England spoiled England for somebody else’s sake. They’re welcome to it if that’s the consensus of opinion, but don’t inflict it on others. Scotland’s doors are not locked, but I think they very much have the right to chose who can live here. We want skilled people and not the “gimme something” rubbish that have flooded into England. If there is one thing that Scotland has learned since it’s parliament first opened and that would be how not to run a country – be it under Labour or Conservative.
Well we’re lumbered with the bastards too. And in my opinion Labour is the lesser of two evils. But the SNP aren’t perfect either. If Scotland breaks away we’ll be lumbered with the Tories for ever!
It’s just a list of conjecture without any factual basis.
If there is one thing that us Britons have little tolerance for, it is being told how to live by a bunch of continentals.
We need Europe like a hole in the head.
To some extent all is conjecture. Nobody knows what is going to happen.
But I have listened hard and that is my view.
It would be a shame if stubbornness led us into disaster but then we’ve seen that time and again – onward onward!! What guns?
I think we need Europe and are Europeans. I do not think we have the means to go it alone. If it breaks up I think that will be very dangerous. Russia is watching. The USA is watching. They’ll look to profit.
USA is focused on South America. That’s why Hilary recently made comments about the Falklands. The USA would very much like to see that island under Argentine control so that they can remove it from them and use it to control that part of the Atlantic.
I do not share your fears on Russia and see no reason to.
That’s just a bit too hysterical.
What guns? I don’t know what you mean – why did you say that?
What? You don’t see the Ukraine and Georgia as setting any precedents? Or Russia sending bombers into British air space as a threat? I do.
Russia would love to see the West divided. In my opinion Putin would exploit that.
The US has it’s eyes on the polar regions and wants Britain out the way. I agree. The weaker we are the better.
It was an allusion to Tennyson’s charge of the light brigade – British stubbornness and stupidity.
The problem that we face globally is that we have physical and social environment in intense transition. Retreating to self contained communities becomes an unending collapse. First the borders are shut. Then you see closed gated neighbourhoods. This is followed by restrictions on the provinces/states/counties.
As a Canadian, I can see the isolationist fear mongering to the south. Always, control the Other, whoever the Other is on that particular day. Here, we introduced a bilingualism and a form of multi-multiculturalism, but still managed to linguistically isolate Anglophone & Francophone communities. We ignored the old European prejudices and views of colonialism that formed the basis of our poor treatment of the First Nation communities and now we are fitfully attempting to correct the damage of a policy of cultural genocide.
Only, fusion of cultural views can create a strong society. Europe needs to find a method of allowing the flow of goods, people and cultural identity. Someway the Europeans are going to have to balance their national identities with their identity as Europeans. Ethnic cultural identity will need to become more fluid and open, or there is a risk of falling back into a pre-WWI balkanization of most of Europe.
The movement of refuges is not going to stop – social unrest brought on by climate change and unstable totalitarian regimes will fuel the flow. If the EU breaks up, that will not stop those desperate families and fleeing individuals from reaching the shores/borders of the nearest countries in Europe. If the flow overwhelms that country, it will spill into the next. The only way it might be stopped would be, if all the refugees were met by guns or dragged off to death camps .
Very well put. I think I agree with all of that.
The huge population explosion is at the root of a lot of it. It is creating the environmental changes and poverty that starts the wars and migrations off.
We either get to grips with the causes of mass migration – overpopulation, unemployment, environmental degradation, war, starvation, drought, climate change, poverty, fundamentalism, corruption, political extremism….. or we suffer the consequences.
Canada is a vast country with huge natural resources.
It is the absolute opposite of the majority of mainland Europe, particularly the land locked countries. It’s population is minuscule in comparison. People have space to live in unimaginable proportions to Europe. If your major problem is one of language, English vs French, be thankful that’s all it is. I think in general Europeans get along with each other just fine, tolerance of individual nationalities does indeed exist with the European community at large. It is the influx of Islam that is the problem. That scares people big time.
I dislike all religion apart from Buddhism and the Quakers (even Buddhism has its moments) and religious fundamentalism in Christians, Jews, Hindus and Muslims is all obnoxious and scary. I particularly dislike the medieval strictures and dress codes of Islam and its intolerance of everyone else. I detest the Islamification of the West and think it should be resisted at all costs. Sharia law and burqas should be banned. They are obscene. We have a legal system we don’t need to replace it with an inferior medieval model based on savagery, religious doctrine and sexism. We are a secular country. Thank heavens for the enlightenment. We have equal opportunities we don’t need women treated as lesser citizens and made to walk around in sacks.
We are Europeans and share a culture. I stand for respect and tolerance but there are rights and freedoms to protect. If people come to our country they should respect our culture and not try to impose their own.
Actually I see a similarity in Canada to Europe. We have a situation which is referred to as have and have not provinces. While we have a vast continental wide country with many natural resources, they are not evenly distributed . Also a natural resource in one technology becomes superficial when another technology arises.
Our Maritime provinces on the east coat were power houses of ship building and fisheries when the country began. By the 20th century, wooden sailing boats were a thing of the past and as time progressed ship building became less significant. The coal of the East Coast became more expensive and unsafe to mine. Fishing changed with changes in technology and climate. The maritime region became resource poor, a set have not provinces through no fault of their own.
The imbalance of population and regional resources will turn an area rich in culture, history and community into a precarious economy, where the young must “flee” or work elsewhere and send home income ( many of the folks working the oil fields in Alberta are from Down East).
Europe has a similar issue, instead of have not provinces it is have not countries. The Greek situation is quite similar to our Maritimes. How do they build a lasting economy if they lack sufficient resources ? The solution is for the young to move to another part of Europe get work. They either totally integrate into that part of the EU ( abandoning family back home ) or somehow funnel their income back region of nationality/ethnicity.
Canadian provinces are always in a tension because at any given time, their population and economic base are out of balance. One province is in ascendancy will another may be slipping – Alberta oil versus Ontario manufacturing are current examples ( powerful oil dollar weakens manufacturing by raising costs ).
As to cultural and religious beliefs, only a strong inclusive public education system that brings all together for equal opportunity will be able to undermine a tendency to separating and isolating segments of the community.
There is a recent article from the CBC news that may be of interest.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/brexit-canada-integration-disintegration-1.3618175
Some great points made there. I thoroughly agree with you about the need for an education system to create equality, tolerance and cohesiveness – essential.
That article was interesting – thanks.
That was my point in relation to your point 1 within your other post, where you said Europe had seen peace for the longest period – I didn’t think it necessary to spell it out – and you’ve just said it yourself here.
I don’t share your fears on Russia. I wouldn’t ever expect it to sit there like a useless puppet and it’s always going to flex it’s muscles every now and again. Besides, Russia’s real enemy is China, who could see Russia off to a stand still very easily by simply messing with it’s oil supply.
I don’t agree. Putin is after Russia being ‘Great’ again. He is power mad. He’s a Trump in power. He’s testing and feeling and he wants the States that were in the old USSR back. He’ll take them if he can. If Europe is broken and weak he will be in there like a shot. And to the USA Europe is expendable. Their interest is economic primarily. They’ll exploit Europe for every cent they can get. They are hard-nosed and cynical. Special relationship? – No way!!
You have 2 choices of power in USA, Mrs Clinton or Trump.
Mrs Clinton herself is somewhat of a worry.
Here are some general knowledge factoids about her
1. Her entire Presidential campaign is paid for by The Clinton Foundation.
2. That Foundation was built from cocaine money going back to Bill Clinton’s Presidential campaign whilst Governor of Arkansas.
2. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is one of the largest supporters of the Foundation.
3. She (on behalf of the Clinton Foundation) received $900,000 from Boeing following her visit to Moscow to ask them to buy planes.
A personal donation cannot exceed $2,300.
4. Both Hilary and Bill lost their licenses to practice Law due to their involvement in the Whitewater/Rose deal in 1994.
5. 18 US Code no. 201 – Bribery of public officials and witnesses. A convicted felon is disqualified from holding any office of honour, trust or profit under United States Law.
6. Hilary lies at the Benghazi Hearing – 11 Sep 2012 on Libya.
She blatantly lied about landing in Bosnia under sniper fire, despite being on film meeting troops on parade and being presented with gifts from local children.
7. She blatantly double backtracked on her views on gay marriage.
8. During the Presidential Task Force on National Health Reform, Hilary with others were fined $450,000 for dishonesty.
You underestimate the special relationship by some measure. Why is it then that Queen Elizabeth II collects the rent money on 50% of USA’s mainland land mass?
Andrew I have never said that Clinton is a good person or anything other than what you say. Just like over here there is a choice of two evils. They both represent greed and the establishment. Nobody can possibly be elected who doesn’t have that backing. There’s no democracy about it – and not much choice either.
You could string together a list about Trump as long as your arm as well.
The choice is which is the better of two complete bastards.
I put my money on Clinton. In my view Trump is a populist fascist with no answers. He’s dangerous. Clinton is devious.
What is this about the Queen collecting rent from half of America? Where does that come from?
The one Country I am not scared of Opher is Russia, what you believe Putin he is waiting to attack us? It is not Russia you should be worried about it’s ISIS and all the millions of supporters. For heaven’s sake you are living in a Country that is not even checking the b……s they let in, let alone one’s here already. Why is there not interment for ones they suspect, no we will wait until the bloody bombs go off and then talk about it. Quick enough imprisoning the Irish, all those years ago comment not a conversation. We have let in enough of these terrorists. Andrew or was it Opher said that Clinton, the criminal, if she gets in she wants the Falklands handed back to Argentina, so America would eventually take it. I don’t give a damn about the people living there, but I care for the Soldiers who fought there, the Soldiers who gave their lives for people who were not worth it. The Falklands belongs to us, too many British Soldiers died/suffered there.
Opher you are making out that if we come out of Europe this Country could not cope, well yes this Country has changed not for the better, but I firmly believe out of Europe this Country would be strong again, you would see the British Spirit return, not National Front/Far Right/Nazi Party or whatever – the British people are not stupid we have guts aplenty, we fought two World Wars – as for another War well look to America not Russia and see what happens and I am not talking about Trump. The attitude of IN is determined to frighten those who have not made up their minds. I told you I will Vote No, this is an Island and we need to close the Borders. I know you and Andrew don’t agree with me, but until Europe imposes another Law regarding Freedom, this is still a Free Country and I Vote OUT. Now argue away with your list of IN.
No. I don’t believe that. ISIS doesn’t have millions of supporters.
Believe me – they are checking the ones here and have stopped lots of potential threats. ISIS is a terror group that works on fear. The actual damage it can do here is limited (unless it gets its hands on WMD). Like the IRA it generates fear out of proportion to the threat. It looks to me as if its days are numbered. It is being beaten back and is losing support everywhere. Most of its targets have been other Muslims. When ISIS has been beaten militarily the threat will diminish.
To defeat terrorism you need good intelligence and collaboration. In my view isolationism cannot work. There are 1.8 million Muslims in Britain. Only a relatively small number are radicalised. But if they are marginalised there will be more. We need a policy of integration and education. Which is one reason why I am so strongly opposed to religious schools.
Russia is a threat and is being treated by NATO as a threat. In my view it poses more of a real threat than ISIS ever could. World Wars start with small incidents. The Ukraine, Georgia – other Baltic States – it does not take much. That sort of conflict could cost millions of lives.
Looking at the history of the Falklands I believe we have more right to it than Argentina. Spain claimed it first and the British ousted them after a short period. We have ruled it for over a hundred years. The Argentinians have never ruled there. Their claim is based on the short Spanish rule and its proximity to Argentina. That’s flimsy.
The real significance is the polar oil and minerals. That’s what the US and Argentina are interested in. It’s not just Clinton. Trump has an even more protectionist policy.
The economy is not down to the strength of the people or their British grit – it’s down to the vagaries of markets and policies of Big Business and Banks.
Every major economists and European Leader has talked of a huge shock to the economy and haemorrhage of jobs. Europe is talking tough on tariffs and trade agreements. It could be hell. And the empire and commonwealth are not there at our beck and call any more. We could find it a very hard economic wind. We’ve got very few natural resources, too many people and not a lot being produced. I don’t think we’re in a healthy position. We are utterly reliant on banking and insurance.
Andrew, you are just so knowledgeable. Hope you are feeling ok, coping with the heat.
Decent weather is good Anna, I’ve no objections there!
I share your enthusiastic beliefs in our own people’s capabilities.
Europe is a wasteful toilet of common decency. I want nothing more to do with it and could not give a tinker’s curse for it’s political insanity. It’s a disgusting manipulative greedy self serving enterprise than looks only to it’s central core, hence why all the less important countries like Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Greece have been bullied and almost wrecked by Eurocrats.
It’s not the idea of a central Euro policy zone, but the people that end up doing the job. They aren’t fit for purpose. If they were then we wouldn’t see the likes of that total plonker Neil Kinnock involved, would we? That’s what we’ve got there, hundreds of Neil Kinnocks continuously stuffing their already greedy stuffed pockets with as much cash as they can carry and to hell with the actual job of improving Europe.
At least here in UK, we know who is doing the damage, where over there we’ve zero chance of knowing anything until it’s rammed down our throats. These Continentals can’t even run a football association without screwing it for everything. And some people are quite OK with them running us? They can go to hell.
The corruption is seriously bad all over Eastern Europe. The Greeks and Italians, too. Leave them to it. It’s their bed and they can lie in it.
It’s no different in Westminster Andrew. You know that. Snouts in the trough.
The Scots were lucky they did not vote out. With the oil going through the floor they might have fond it heavy weather. Europe is good to Scotland.
And on the corruption and intrigue look no further than BHS or Formula 1.
Oh Opher, this all seems very depressing. I love being an English European and even though I try with other languages it always amazes me how people are so good with the English and their English ways in English. I fear the no one is seeing the wood for the trees at the moment. Look what Gove did to education and he was politely removed. Boris has not solved any London immigration crisis. No one up North wants to work there!
I agree Georgina. I like the continent and have made good friends in Germany, Denmark and France.
I think that the EU needs to clean up its act and become a lot more effective though – far to much gravy train and national interest and not enough action.
Gove and Johnson are the worst pigs going. I’ve personally suffered at the hands of that bombastic idiot. The far right is detestable. They have utter contempt for people. They lie while they cynically destroy.
Gove is worrying as we know him well!
He is an extremely nasty man.
SNP despite rigging that election by allowing 16 year old kids to vote lost. They thrive on old fashioned Nationalism and responsible for the creation of UK divisions. They did not do too well in real terms again recently. Maybe something to do with the missing 12 billion pounds in their budget – for want of a better word – and 3 of them being done for fraud, with more to follow.
I want more power to Scottish affairs, but there ends and no breakup of the UK.
I don’t like their mentality of insularity. I despise them for that and wouldn’t trust them with my granny’s hat pin.
Some factors of European membership are as good for Scotland as they are for anybody else – so to say “good for Scotland” doesn’t really carry much weight.
Our streets are full of Roma gypsies begging, pick-pocketing, shoplifting, doing burglary,
stealing the clothes from the public charity drop tanks, robberies by knife and filling the jails.
Organised Romanian gangs are stealing the electrical cable from the motorway road systems.
The government stupidly piles them all into the same areas, where they basically take over and very quickly a type of Mafia springs out from nowhere. They have no alternatives though, as there are simply no other places to put them, that being areas where nobody else wants to live.
By emptying decaying old high rises that were previously earmarked for demolition and then filling them up again with foreigners isn’t a very good idea. It instantly creates ghettos of no-go areas. Rape crimes are up a shed load and secret location hostels for abused women are being opened continuously.
The Police has an insurmountable problem and the lists of cases coming up for hearing at the Sheriff Courts are indicative of the scale of where it’s going.
If only we (the UK) had the right to chose who does get entry then all fine and dandy, but it’s wholesale anything goes policy is too destructive.
These SNP want to be seen as modern, diverse, multicultural etc but really have no means for doing it without causing real anti-social problems for everybody.
Yet we, the indigenous, have to be “multicultural”, but this attitude isn’t enforced upon those arriving here. A strange anomaly repeated verbatim by SNP people, who when you just hear them open their mouths, you just know they are not particularly well educated. We’ve got lowest level common denominators telling us how to think! The longer they milk this the longer they will be there.
And I explained yesterday how they have manipulated their education “policy”.
The only reason the SNP exists is because we have so many Chavs that simply cannot get past their inherent hatred of England. It’s that simple and SNP prey on these people. But you will never hear that from Sturgeon & Co, they’re far too canny for that. But you will from their ground level troops who always gather on a bridge half a mile from me. I’ve talked to them are they’re an insidious backward bunch, hard-boiled and bitter. But thankfully common sense prevails and they are in actual fact NOT representative of the collective majority in terms of the UK.
If only there were simple solutions to the problems, people were nicer and a lot more intelligent – the world might not be in this mess.
I think everyone, all over the world, is being ruled by greedy, self-interested people who lack integrity and vision.
Wow. That’s quite the discussion you guys have going on here.
It is such an imperfect world when you are dealing with the lesser of two evils. Ideally we would dump both positions and set up a third that worked properly. But that is not going to happen. So we either stay in and try to get the terrible machine working better or get out and suffer what could be extreme consequences.
I fear neither will solve the problems.
You have the same in America with Trump and Clinton. Which is the greater evil? Clinton is devious and Trump is a megalomaniac. I’d go for Clinton every day – she’s not quite so dangerous but it’s not a good choice is it?
The best solution for the UK today – given the events and circumstances that were never on the agenda or the horizon in the first place – is to temporarily leave as a protest. The UK is absolutely entitled to protest it’s stance.
The UK has huge debts (thank you Labour Party, well done).
However, it has been calculated that if we did not transfer billions every year into Europe and where we only receive a proportion back in drips and drabs and if we were to use that money to our own advantage, that debt could be paid off in its entirety by 2030.
The entire Euro parliamentary process has to be restructured.
No one country such as Germany today should be in the perverse position of financial dictatorship over others.
No one country should be in the position to willfully completely upset the balance of inter-continental migration.
And I’m not referring to the Syrian crisis here – that is an entirely different situation.
We have far too many people traveling westwards in huge numbers. This is very much why we have all this low paid zero contract abuse, where Western companies can very easily exploit these lesser fortunates.
There has got to be integration of localized systems for labour exchange. This will greatly enhance the opportunities for those willing to travel for work where they will actually be provided with a suitable job on a pre-arranged and pre-determined basis. This mass dispersal and arrival in any given country with absolutely zero contingency measures in place must cease immediately. It is a recipe for disaster and many are doomed to fail as is very apparently evident.
The whole system of economic migration is completely unorganised.
Migrants end up living in cliques in squalid and crammed conditions which represents the antithesis of modern European ideology in terms of standards of living.
It creates an US and Them barrier and local councils simply cannot cope. The infrastructure does not exist to the scale of demand pressured upon it.
It is absolutely unacceptable to allow mass migration to such a level whereby this results in portable encampments and tented villages within our cities – see the banks of the River Thames as just one example of hundreds of such all over western Europe.
It is unacceptable for any host country to not know who is arriving into their country.
I spotted a post on youtube recently, made by a Bulgarian, who said “We in Bulgaria are very happy to get rid of our rubbish. The West is so stupid.”
Which kind of sums it up.
Some good points there Andrew but I can’t see an option for pulling out on a temporary basis. The economic disruption would be too great and the palaver of organising another referendum would not be possible.
I think the EU has to address the points you raise. They must be obvious to the people running it. We need to be in there insisting they are dealt with as a priority.
All pretty much frightening stuff n’est ce pas? Philosophically it probably all stems from mankind , the invention of money, the dwindling planetary resources of things regarded as valuable, our insecurity of our not knowingness and finiteness etc etc…. The changing fluidity of the Universe awaits us all and we are just temporary micro pawns in the wonder of it all trying to rationalise the inexplicable! Thats my sermon from the Mount 2day! Amen to all men & women x
Hi Andy – You are quite right. Imperfect specimens we are – mere microbes in the face of infinity – here for a brief flash. We don’t know what the hell’s going on.
Reblogged this on Opher's World and commented:
I was told this was scaremongering rubbish. Seems all too real to me now.
Why don’t you stand for Parliament, you think so much is wrong – you have enough to say.
I have toyed with standing for parliament and becoming more involved in the Local Labour Party. But I’m your age Anna. Too old to go through all that.
Being 67 years does not stop you from doing what you believe in, I would have problems having Heart Failure and the rest, but if I had the chance well who knows. My Youngest Son stood in one of the Elections some years ago.
Of course it does. I don’t have the energy or time. It is full on. If I wanted to get involved it would take me years to get involved to the right level. You don’t just walk into it. You have to work at it for years.
You don’t think I don’t know that. Come. come you are the one that states you want to do something else. Does not have to mean stand in an Election even if you got chosen to stand, there are other things to do in politics.
Does not fit in with what I want to do.
What with you so passionate about Politics and all that is going on now.
Oh I am. But I’m passionate about a number of things.
Jo Cox hadn’t and pretty much just walked in. She been with Oxfam for 10 years previous.
Thing is though she was young and I suppose to some in the selection committee (men I mean – well could be women too) attractive. Had the Husband two young children, lived in a Houseboat (new labour?), probably had money – ticked all the boxes.
You are good at winning Andrew, what do you say for Theresa May taking over from Cameron.
You mean Cruella. Boris will get it.
We don’t need Thatcher #2.
Don’t you think that is a bit condescending towards someone who was murdered for what she stood for? You didn’t have the same attitude towards the victims of the terrorists did you? Or did she get herself deliberately butchered in order to influence the vote? I wonder what her husband and children would make of what you casually said – assumptions – new Labour, probably had money – ticked all the boxes. That is pretty low stuff. In fact maybe you should read about the selflessness and caring she put in before writing a script to fit in with your current emotional state. I find that pretty unpleasant and uncaring.
We might well get worse that Thatcher. Bumbling Boris the buffoon or calculating May. Some choice.
Where does this come from?
Jo Cox was a dedicated activist who cared about people. Seemingly that doesn’t fit with your narrative so you have to belittle her.
I’ve no doubt that she was dedicated, but I don’t think she knew about the people she associated with.
Good legs though, envy the high heels – Theresa that is not Boris.
Boris would be wearing the heels if he thought it would win him a vote. Is this how we judge people now?
A joke, I take it they are allowed.
If you are going to insult me then get it right. Regarding Mrs Cox and what you replied to me. My late Husband some years before he died was attacked by four people and left for dead. When the news got out we had the Press who wanted to do a Story, it was near Christmas and they not only wanted pics of my Husband and myself but our two small Children. We said NO on all counts. You criticise me for what I said, easily forget don’t you Opher how the late Mrs Cox’s Husband took his two Children on a boat to Westminster and the World’s Press photographed him and the Children, and you criticise me.
Interestingly Mr Brendan Cox had to resign from the charity Save The Children fund in November 2015 over allegations of behaving inappropriately with female members of staff. He denied the allegations but left anyway.
2015 was the same year that Save The Children USA presented Tony Blair with a “Global Legacy Award”.
I really couldn’t make this up even if I tried my hardest.
No doubt I’ll be accused of “anecdotes” and “selective information”. LOL
I knew about the Award to Blair because there was uproar at the time as to what “Save The Children” had done in presenting him of all people with it. Did not know about Mr Cox, you just never know do you Andrew, someone who allows the World’s Press to take pics of the Children just what days after his Wife is murdered, what type is he. You couldn’t make it up as you say, interesting bit of news.
There’s more on Jo Cox, but I’m a bit reticent about putting it up here as it might shock and upset some people, given previous comments where any scrutiny is deeply frowned upon.