I keep hearing about how great it used to be in the past. You must be joking! It stank.
Back in the days of Empire Britain exploited a great deal of the world, robbed their wealth, stole their resources and used cheap labour to create huge wealth. That wealth came back into the aristocracy and the huge stately homes but did not filter down to the workers. Their conditions were appalling.
My Grandfather fought in the First World War. My father’s generation fought in the Second World War. I was in the first generation that didn’t get massacred in war. Fortunately my sons and daughters have not had to fight either. Things are much better. I wouldn’t want that worry.
Times were hard when I was young despite being risen middle class. The house was so cold I got chilblains every winter. There was no central heating, telephone and we got the first TV on the block – a little black and white.
My Dad worked in Fleet Street in London. He worked six days a week. Left the house at six thirty and got back at six thirty. He ate his tea, read the newspapers, watched a little TV and went to bed at ten. On Sunday he cut the roast and mowed the grass. He had two weeks holiday a year.
From where I stood he had no life. He had no possessions. His life was hard and regimented. He wore his suit and toed the line.
Britain was great? No. The aristocracy and wealthy creamed it all off. The middle class were subservient and knew their place and the working class worked hard for low wages in dangerous conditions. One of my classmates was killed at work in the first three weeks after he left school. Thank heavens for unions and a decent wage. Thank heavens for the health and safety that the unions fought for. They had to be wrested from a screaming management.
My father was a man of great integrity, intelligence and principles – but he was a product of his time. Because of his poor background he was shunned by management and ostracised. He knew his place and just got on with it. There was such a rigid class system that it was claustrophobic. If you were part of it you got on and had it made. The Old Boys’ network ruled. The Rotary Club and Masons, the all-male clubs in London. It was obscene.
I was offered Rotary and Masons and turned them down flat. I will have nothing to do with secret societies scratching each others backs. The Old Boy network and class system stink worse than a room of dead rats.
Women were second-class citizens – good for typing, shop-work and nursing.
Racism was extant. My father believed that a white Englishman was better than everybody else. He was racist and refused to employ foreigners, blacks or Asians. He had an impossible test he gave any applicants he did not like. We would argue like mad about it.
Where is this greatness?
Back in the early twentieth century we were a major power. Yes we were. That was because we robbed our empire and stole all the raw materials and exploited our own working population. The profits went to the rich and powerful.
We were respected? I’m not so sure about that. We were feared because we were so brutal, but respected?
So we are heading back to greatness when everything was great. So where is this wealth coming from now? We have no empire anymore. The working class don’t want to work for low pay and be exploited and we have little manufacturing and resources.
I had a great life. I had fun fighting for a liberal world and an outgoing society. I wanted fun, freedom, fairness and equality and had a great life fighting for it. I have a life with possessions and travel and a standard of living that my parents could only have dreamed of.
Great – this is the greatest it’s ever been!
The only thing I am going to comment on is The Masons. I can’t say a lot because like you I don’t know what goes on within the Society and the meetings. What I can say is my late Husband was a Mason long before I met him, his Lodge was in London, I won’t say where. He would attend his Lodge four times a year until it became too expensive to do so, he remained a Mason to his Death.
“Scratching each others backs” I know that went on, the worst ones for that were and still are the Police Lodges, (yours in it?). Not once, not one single time whilst I was married to David did he gain anything or take anything from the Lodge and fellow Masons, business wise he received no benefits from them. When David died, much to my shock as a lapse Catholic he chose to become a Catholic if you like on his Deathbed, his Funeral was in the Catholic Church and Masons from his Lodge came a long way to attend the Funeral for which I was grateful, they came with the most beautiful Blue/White flowers that draped and I insisted they were placed on David’s Coffin, he was a loyal Mason and this was the last thing I knew he would like, that I could do for him. The Lodge were surprised and so grateful. Every Christmas I am remembered by the Lodge with a gift for which I remain grateful for their kindness. They have never done anything to harm me or the Boys, I can speak no wrong of therm. This hated of your is so intense, its worrying.
I grew up in the fifties like you Opher, I remember I remember only too well. My Parents were Irish, when my Father came here looking for lodgings “NO IRISH” on the windows, one landlady fed him cat food when he refused to have it she told him it was stew, he soon told her. I remember as a child every night at 7pm off Daddy would go to Fords in Dagenham coming home 7am, night shift every single night year in year out weekends too, I would cry and call out “stay home Daddy” but no he couldn’t let “the boys down”. Unions, don’t talk to me about Unions and how great they were. Fords, typical “all out” official unofficial didn’t matter “bring them out” while the Union bosses got rich. Railways, I would travel up to the Prudential get to the train station and one union boss by the name of Ray Buckley Trains were on strike, no warnings, just call a strike – don’t talk to me about unions, when my Father and so many others after countless countless years of working for Ford were made redundant, where was the Union, where were the bastards couldn’t give a damn. If my Father taught me anything he taught to me to Love this Country, the first Passport I received he told me “never ever lose it, people in other Countries would give anything to have one of those” how right he was. He taught me never to look down on anyone, never think myself to be better, never tell lies and never as he would say “be like your mother and hating people”. He was a very shy very reserved Irish man, never drank unfortunately smoked and paid the price for it. Born in Blarney Village the Castle Grounds the fields they played on. I loved him then I love him now and I miss and cry for him. A working Class man who deserved better in life.
Its so much better now, is it Opher I still smell that stink of “The Class system” in this Country, I love this Country but I detest the Royals and all they stand for, so much better is it is it really. We all have memories good and bad, you were fortunate you have travelled you had a good job nice Family happy Marriage, have your own home good Pension from Teaching, that’s what should concern you. When I married I had to listen to being lectured by an aunt and my mother that when they married they had no home all ready to walk into, I did and it was not right. Yes David had a home he purchased for us no he was not wealthy, he was a secretive man kept so much from me. I was tired of hearing people say he was my “sugar daddy” being 30 years older, he made me give up work, big mistake doing so, and I became a Wife house cleaner, later Mother. I was put on a Budget from day one to his death. It was tough at times, even tougher when he died. When neighbours asked “of course David had a lot of insurance” I would answer “yes”, he refused to have policies that would have helped us. He purchased this large house, ask the Boys and they will tell you he was very affectatious, Conservative Club but voted Labour, he spoke like James Mason looked like Ian Carmichael, you know who they are Opher, RAF Served in India during World War 11, English Gentleman and better than me. He was actually born on the Isle-of-Dogs, when he died and I finally went through his coat pockets he had all this money – like hell he did he had coppers in his pocket and apart from the house and all the problems with it (you get my meaning Opher) he left us the Boys and myself Nothing. Don’t tell me its better now, I struggled but I survived and raised two good Sons.
This Country needs the support of its people it does not need all these migrants/immigrants coming in we have done our share. I have more years behind me than ahead of me, in this last year I have learned a lot, one thing that I will never see the end of is the Royals or the Class system in this Country, we need respect back we need standards brought back. Not pandering to these foreigners who think they can tell us what to do, they have come here obey our rules or get out. I don’t want some “happy clappy global society. I have made some really good Friends here on the Internet, some enemies too no doubt. This is good, back in the fifties did you think you would be looking at a screen typing away on a keyboard Opher, when the Boys first got one of these things for a long time I would call the “mouse” a “Rat” I learned differently as I have learned a lot in the last year. Take care Opher. (No personal offense intended, so don’t take it that way please)
No offense Anna. It’s good to talk and get different perspectives.
In terms of the Masons – I know a lot of back scratching went on in our local lodge – contracts were given to the right people and a lot of information and money was passed along. If I had joined when offered I would have had an easy passage. I had to apply and fail at every step of the way. Only through doggedness and being very good at the job did I eventually progress. If I had been Public School amnd part of the ‘establishment’ the gears would have been oiled. I saw it happen. I find it particularly worrying in terms of the police and judges/solicitors. It makes you wary of justice. The Old Boys network still rules. The Class system is less entrenched but it is still there.
I also saw this from the other side. Becoming an esteemed Headmaster meant that I was suddenly part of the establishment. I was invited to Judge so-and-so and Colonel Blimp. I could have spent my life wining and dining with the elite. It would have paved my way to progressing into the big time. I refused each and every invite. That whole elitist, class thing repulses me.
It’s not hatred Anna. It is intense dislike of a system that is based on privilege, who you know and where you come from, rather than your merit. I am opposed to it all.
I’m sure David did not exploit it. I don’t know. He probably enjoyed the status. I loathe what it represents and how it is misused.
As for unions – well they did get too big for their boots and silly. Power goes to their heads. But without them, as we can see clearly now, people are exploited and abused. Every right had to be fought for. The bosses get rich – look at BHS or Sports whatever. They screw millions while the workers are chucked out without a bean and no pension – Green has it all.
The country is great because it has been fought for by working people. But the bosses take the lion’s share.
The people of this country have always had migrants – Irish, Sikhs, Jamaicans – you name it. I don’t mind. I love a cosmopolitan feel. The music, language, food and culture – Brixton carnival, reggae, Turkish restaurants ….. I have had good friends who are from all parts of the world, cultures, religions. They are great. Last night we went to a Blues Festival. The night before I had a Muslim friend round. He didn’t try to cut our throats or criticise how we lived. We talked about Brexit and the world. He wants immigration stopped. It seems ironic to me. His wife is from Tunisia and his is in a community with Iraqis and Kurds. They love this country and want to be British.
I met up with Andrew in Edinburgh. A really nice guy. We don’t agree on a number of things, and he can be abrasive, but I respect his views and reasons. My experience is different to both you and him. I am by no means as concerned about immigration or Muslims. I do think mass immigration is bad though and we’ve had too much too quick – we need to stop it. As for terrorism – it is hardly a threat. Your chances of being struck by lightning have been greater in the past five years.
I’d much prefer to be ruled by Europe than a Tory government. There’s nothing special about Britain. We’ve put big contributions into the human and workers rights. We should be proud of it instead of slamming it all the time. Europe has done some great things. Being ruled by the aristocracy here is not so great.
Happoyu clappy global society? No I don’t want that either. I want proper pay for all people, an end to pollution, environmental damage, an end to overpopulation and war. I want an end to poverty. I want elephants, rhinos, chimps and gorillas to roam free. I want the end to the obscenity where someone can earn billions a year at the expense of others having their babies starve to death. Happy clappy? No – a cause worth fighting for. Hiding our head in the sand and saying we can’t do anything about it gives them licence to machine gun rhinos and elephants. I think we can, and should, stop them.
Now I might be wrong and there might be fuck all we can do about it but I at least will continue to try and I won’t give up and roll over. Being selfish and saying ‘I’ve got mine – sod you Jack’, is not my style. When I see something wrong I shout about it and try to get it changed.
Silly I know.
You’re right – who could have predicted the power of computers. It might just save our skins and give my grandchildrens’ children a world with some nature left.
Much to my surprise and probably yours, yes I do agree with a lot you have to say. I don’t want to see animals in a Zoo, in fact I have only ever been to a Zoo less than five times, animals should be left to roam free protected from man who wants to kill them. Like the Amazon Forest look what that has caused, the Oceans the sky all the pollution we have caused, what is there for the Children of the future. Animals that will be extinct, I find it so hard to believe when it is said there are only 8 whatever left in the Wild, it upsets me so much. Cruelty to defenceless creatures. Green lands taken away to build more houses. We have here lost more Green lands not for houses for something better, another bloody super store this time Asda, I don’t know how many this Town needs, of course the backhanders helped. We could go on and on. David once said to me that joining the RAF was the best thing that ever happened to him, he got away from his family he got away from the East End. He reluctantly just a few times took me to meet his Family he was different from them. He could be so affectatious, he would correct me but I learned from him but it did hurt, I know he thought himself to be better than I was but the truth was I came from a much better home even with all its problems. He liked to have a young Wife on his arm, he didn’t want children told me that a few years after we married, broke my heart. He knew so much, he had travelled and yet did not want that for his own Children. I would walk into a room where he was and he would walk out, I would go to where he had gone and he would walk out. I expected a marriage like my parents they did love one another but my Father did pull her up, but he never once hit her and we were sheltered from any cross words they would have. I walked out one night in Benfleet where we lived because of what was going on, went to a phone box to call my mother, on the way back crossing Essex Way I did not care I did not want to go on I saw the car and didn’t care if it hit me they stopped, good or bad, still not sure.
David wanted me to be one thing as did my mother, I wanted to be someone else, ME just me. This last year has been the happiest I have known for a LONG time, met well via the internet, some really good People, made Friends I hope will last a long time. Become stronger in myself gained more confidence in myself (you know who did that). I would loved to have travelled instead I opted for what I thought was happiness and security at a price. I so like Politics as you know and I do like debating with you even though we do not always agree on everything, you must not take what I say as an insult to you its not meant that way. I just wish you did not get so worked up I used to do that Opher and now I have the consequences, you only stress yourself. Liz the children and grandchildren must come first.
Your friend you mentioned that came around why should anyone have a go at them I know they are not all bad Opher, we have some (white) down this road well I would not talk to them that’s not being snobbish thats I don’t trust them. When we came here we had two real old English Ladies that lived next door, Mary was lovely but blind and she lived upstairs – Vera who owned the house had it converted to two flats she lived downstairs, when she was introduced to my Mother, I saw Vera’s face one of “oh dear not here in Vicarage Gardens” my mother still had the very soft Irish accent, David she thought was wonderful with his RAF tie he sometimes wore and his posh James Mason accent, if she had known David was born on the Isle-of-Dogs she would not have looked at him let alone talk to him, this was/is the class system all over, she disliked me I was young and had broken up his marriage so she thought, so far from the truth.
There is a lot here in the UK that I would like to change but I know it would never happen, I do my little bit with Posters and planting as many Trees as I can, but I am not going to get myself worked up. Too many rows, too many slinging matches my mother trapping me everytime, far too much stress that went on and on just too much over the years I now have Heart Failure and it was not worth it. So take care Opher. As long as we can debate and have a good old back and forth now and again, I miss that, and no offence taken then I am happy. I have three appointments tomorrow with two different Doctors and a Nurses Appointment, so that’s my afternoon gone.
“Sleep Warm” Opher.
Well I hope tomorrow goes well for you and you get things sorted. Your health is crucial. I also hope that they sort the medicine and exercise so you get yourself fit. San Francisco is an important goal to work towards. it is crucial that we have targets. I’m glad that you have that to aim for. If you work hard at it then it will happen.
I’m not surprised you agree with me on a number of things. Because I think we do agree. I understand where you are coming from when we disagree. Arguing is OK as long as it doesn’t get personal and upsetting. It is important to understand different views. If everyone thought the same it would be a boring world. As my Mum used to say: – ‘It takes all sorts to make the world go round.’ We’re not so different.
Sleep well – it’s a great day tomorrow! Three appointments to make progress. Good luck.
Totally! I am very critical about the contemporary world and its vices and injustices. However, I always recognize that things have never been as good as they are now. It’s easy to look at the past and fantasize about how great it used to be – but that’s just it – a fantasy. We are progressing, there is just an undeniably need for more progress.
Not just more progress but the right progress – progress that reduces our population and puts us back in harmony with the natural world.
We have the power to do. What we lack is the will. It is easier to ignore, exploit and make profit rather than show compassion and care.
You’re right! Progress does seem more inclined to money and production, but I was thinking about evolution of the mindsets, more tolerance, more freedom, more concern about the environment and the ecosystems, more solidarity, etc. 🙂
Yes. In that sense it is going forward. The main problem seems to be that there are a minority of extremely wealthy people who are guiding us down a path to oblivion. While the sensibilities of most people are much more compassionate and caring there are still a lot of people driven by greed, profit and growth at all costs. So while we are no longer baiting bears, leaving people to starve and battling against pollution and environmental destruction, there are those who are logging rainforests, machine-gunning elephants, waging war, imposing intolerant religious views and strip-mining in order to become rich and powerful. We have a way to go.
I really don’t think that the Rotary or the Masons should be of the slightest concern to you.
Firstly, I don’t think you fully understand the good works of Rotary Clubs. They’re simply a bunch of people (usually involved in local commerce) who do stuff for the less fortunate without any centralised – be it local councils or government – involvement. They hold social evenings, dinners etc and simply raise cash. There’s nothing at all sinister about their work and a sheer bloody nonsense to suggest otherwise.
The Masons play their role in society, too. Indeed they keep their secrecy as that is exactly their modus operandi. They look after each other. In terms of administration they operate no differently than your local Labour Party membership meeting. They keep their business under close wraps. It’s not everybody’s business, just as the minutes from the Labour party membership meeting aren’t everybody’s business.
They also help a lot of needy people by charitable deeds and subscribe to a wealth of causes.
They just don’t advertise it. They aren’t celebrities looking for a round of applause. They don’t do media exposure and quite absolutely the opposite.
You’ve just cast dispersion’s that they don’t operate under the letter of the law of the land, that some form of crookery exists. That’s simply not true and any criminality will result in immediate expulsion. They actually adhere to quite severe moral ethics.
Have you actually ever bothered to read their code of conduct, rules and regulations?
No, I didn’t think so.
Not everybody by any stretch in the Masons is a judge, in the Police or a member of the aristocracy. Although it used to be that as a Policeman, he had to be a member and there was no question about it. But that was decades ago in my grandfather’s day.
This myth of the Masons being something of a secret society to be wary of was simply propagated by people who were refused entry. The had a chip on their shoulder about it and mouthed off.
The Masons won’t touch people who are social deviants, outwith their acceptable social norms, people without a proven life path, job-hopper type people. People who are semi-literate or under educated. And that’s just too bad for the countless many that don’t come up to the required standard.
Since you are moving house it seems, here’s an example of the benefits from membership of the Masons.
A friend of mine never had a father in his life and when he came to a juncture in his life where he felt he needed some good solid guidance, he decided to apply to them. They took him in and he never looked back. He doesn’t possess a religious bone in his body and loves social interaction particularly if a drink is involved. He talks highly of them and they understand his occasional unavailability due to his role as a reserve Fireman, with on duty call over and above his normal day job – as Masons meeting are always on an evening.
My friend moved from Falkirk to Harpenden, nr St Albans.
The Masons organised his haulage company, his new house thoroughly checked out for safety, ie electricity switches and cables, the heating boiler serviced, roof repair of several broken/loose tiles, carpets steam cleaned, paintwork touched up, garden tidied, windows washed, blinds cleaned – you name it – they organised and managed it – and he’d never even met any of these people before and didn’t know them from Adam.
If only you’d give just a little more consideration to the reality of some subjects and bear in mind that there are indeed two sides to every story, or worse, avoid making judgement with only half a story.
Hi Andrew,
I’m sure there are two sides to every story and I’m equally sure that both the Rotary Club and Masons do a lot of good work for the community. Though I have not personally seen a great deal of evidence for that.
I can only base my feelings about the Masons on my personal experience. My school had its own exclusive Masons group and I saw close up how it operated. I did not like it. It was I believe operating in a way that was not conducive to the views I operate by.
In this day and age I cannot see the need for secret organisations that exclude women and operate behind closed doors.
I am aware that the ‘old boys’ network, or something similar, operates in all manner of ways in all sorts of institutions – usually under the guise of networking.
For me it should be a question of merit and not who you know or have wheedled up to.
As for reading the rulebook – I think we all know there is usually a big gulf between what is written, what is formally recorded and what actually happens.
I am just glad I did not join when I was offered. Not for me I’m afraid.
Well I am surprised that so much was done for Andrew’s friend when he moved house. My late Husband had been Master of his Lodge twice. When he died, could more have been done to help my two young Sons and myself at the time, I dare say. I did not ask for help and none was offered, our situation had been made clear to them. As I said I do receive an M&S voucher at Christmas.. In all the years, long before I came along, David had been a Freemason of Grand Rank standing, he never gained anything from them regarding benefits to business or in private life, in the 19 years we were married.
Yes I am aware of their Charitable works, as I am aware of the Royal connections and the power they pull. They used to have a Boys School and they helped educate many a child of a Freemason, like the creep so called actor Anthony Andrews, whose Father had been a Mason he died and Andrews and his Brother were educated by the Masons, many years later Andrews was to mock the Masons for what they did.
My late Husband had said that when Jonathan our eldest Son reached 21 he would take him into his Lodge, regarded as an Honour. Well he did not live to do that and when Jonathan was asked about entering a local Lodge he made it clear he did not want to be a Mason, likewise David had no interest.
I don’t know anything about their masonic secrets who cares, I have known for so long what the so called masonic handshake is as you can tell the degree of the mason too.
I cannot see the purpose of a secret men-only organisation. It is either suspect or grown men playing boy scouts to me.
There are plenty of ways for people to openly support charities with time or money – or give anonymously if they want. Why a secret meeting? Status?