When I was walking up my hill in the grey Autumn day – a bit of a contrast to yesterday’s heat and sunshine – I found myself singing this.
The Doors were one of my favourite bands.
It feels like Summer has gone. Where will we be? In the midst of a pandemic and winter on its way!
263 thoughts on “Doors -Summer’s almost gone”
Israel’s 3 No’s:
1. No to any negation of the Israeli victory of the 1967 6 Day War.
2. No to any surrender of Israeli rule from all of Jerusalem.
3. No to any 1948 alien Balestinian stateless refugees, much less their descendants, receiving Israeli citizenship.
Ursula von der Leyen delivered her first State of the Union speech, but she made no mention of the recent peace treaties between UAE and Bahrain with Israel.. The EU talks about the absolute need for trust between member states in that Union, specifically in Eastern Europe. Yet demands the division of Israel in the face of total distrust!!! The EU has a hostile agenda in the Middle East. She said nothing about the vile Turkish continued occupation of Cyprus. The vile hypocrisy that EU rhetoric refers to as the ‘Rule of Law’, specifically the EU condemnation based upon its evil support of UN/Obama 2334, by which foreign alien Powers declare that they have a mandate to determine the international borders of States in the Middle East.
I’m not sure what any of that has to do with the Doors Moshe.
It sounds to me as if you are coming from an extreme position.
From my point of view, the only way to achieve peace in the Middle East is by compromise, not extremism. There is a need for a Palestinian State, reparation for lands and houses and a final settlement that would remove this bone of contention that is fuelling the animosity.
As for the boundaries of nations – it seems that they were arbitrarily allocated in the first place and there has been much illegal incursion.
There is much room for compromise and a solution to this vexatious problem. Extremism on either side is not the answer.
After the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel was — in Defense Minister Moshe Dayan’s famous phrase — “waiting for a telephone call” from Arab leaders. At a summit conference in Khartoum, Sudan from August 29 to September 1. There they pledged to continue their struggle against Israel. Influenced by Nasser, “their conditions were quite specific: no peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel.
The 3 No’s of Israel makes a spoof upon the Khartoum 3 No’s. LOL
Hi Moshe. Yes – I can see the volatile situation. It is not good. The Arab world needs to wake up and recognise the State of Israel. My contention is that it is not helped by the festering situation with the displaced Palestinians or the ongoing illegal occupations of territory. Both sides need to compromise and come to an agreement. The only way I can see of going forward is for the Palestinians to recognise the state of Israel and for Israel to give them a state and reparation. I think the world would force the Arabs to change their policy. This has been going on too long.
Honestly its not the Arab world that’s the problem. Its Europe/Russia and the UN that’s the problem. Arabs fought and lost wars to throw the Jews into the Sea and complete the Nazi genocide which murdered 75% of all European Jewry in less than 4 years.
Germany lost its land grab wars, and got its Capital of Berlin divided. The EU seeks to negate the Israeli victory of 1967. If they can succeed to negate that victory, then what’s to stop them from negating the Israeli 1948 Independence War victory?
Hi Moshe, From here it looks as if the Arab world is a big part of the problem in not recognising the State of Israel.
The Jews have had a rough ride for centuries and I doubt that too many right-minded people begrudge them a homeland. The problem is that those people who were forcibly displaced should be given some reparation and their own state. I do not think that they deserved the mess they find themselves in.
I would hope that a deal could be struck which recognises the state of Israel and its borders, gives the displaced Palestinians a homeland with some reparation for their losses, is recognised by all Arab nations and puts an end to this ongoing state of hostility.
No. Arabs took the risk of making war and lost. Jews took the risk of making war against the Romans and lost. We paid for this defeat in over 2000 years of exile and existing in foreign countries as stateless refugees. Jews have no obligation what so ever to give Arabs who sought to complete the Nazi genocide swat. These Arab refugees want a country, well let it come out of the hide of the 27 Arab countries. Israel has only one tiny homeland, we absolutely shall not risk Civil War among our own people in order to give Arab refugees a homeland that has never existed in history prior to the Israeli Independence War.
And how much better it would have been if neither of those wars had taken place. How much better it would have been if the Jewish people had not been displaced.
It seems to me that all parties – the Israelis, Palestinians and the Arab states need to be brought together under the auspices of the UN to resolve this issue with compromise on all sides.
Look pragmatically – not ideologically.
Speculative rewriting of history its good for fiction books. Had the Shoah by the European barbarians not occurred, most likely the Jewish state would have never arose from the grave of exile. The UN does not say squat about Britain or France or Russia, but pretends it has a mandate to condemn and dictate borders of smaller weaker states … Bunk.
The UN is an assembly of all countries that imposes a law that all countries should adhere to. I am opposed to some countries holding a veto. That needs to go. The UN does say about issues in the UK – the Falklands war, the Iraq war, the Afghan war.
The General Assembly a collage of national interests. Cuba lead the 3rd world nations. Arabs enjoy 27 nation alliance. Israel stands alone in the General Assembly. The EU sides with the Arabs. Israel its the only country in the UN that excluded from its region. The EU had to give Israel a temporary status as part of the EU! The UN sucks.
The UN is the only hope for humanity and I do not agree with your assessment of what is taking place.
Both Israel and the Palestinians have done wrong (and the Arabs and the British). It needs resolving. I cannot see how your stance can do anything other than promote continuing violence until such time as a nuclear device resolves the issue. Violence creates violence.
Both it and the League of Nations suck. I do not trust that foreign leaders will protect my interests. Israel did not languish in exile for over 2000 years to reestablish a Jewish State only to let foreign nationals determine its borders and national policies of State.
You’d rather that was done through war????
Nation States understand that a real war opens the possibility of losing that war. Vietnam serves as a Prime example of the risks of War. The vile invasion of Iraq … another example. Can you give an example where the UN intervention has prevented a war?
All the wars that never happened Moshe. Those are the ones the UN prevented.
Google number of deaths from war over time and you will see the improvement.
What wars that never happened. Please give me a single example that i can Google. You cannot Google wars that never happened.
The UN – up to its eyeballs in the Korean and Vietnam wars. Same holds true with the war criminal Bush invasion of both Iraq and Afganistan.
No – I disagree. The UN is not yet able to control the superpowers. If it could these wars would not have happened.
All the wars that never happened. The biggest being the war between Russia and the USA.
Where was the UN at the Cuban missile crisis. What a worthless joke.
It did not have the power to intervene. It requires more power. You ask too much.
Would never agree to give that vile disgusting mob more power.
Fortunately, you do not determine that.
War its a traditional route by humanity throughout our history as Man.
Time we grew up. There are more intelligent ways!
pius religious choir chants.
Had Israel not fought its Independence war the Jewish people would have remained in the despicable state of being stateless refugee populations. Whoooooop we won our Independence!
And I’m glad. Now win the peace.
Winning the peace … the agenda of weaving a strong social fabric among and between the Israeli people.
Good luck with that. Israel is ruled by a theocracy.
Bunk the Jewish State – a secular state.
Ruled by religious extreemists. It’s a theocracy.
David Ben-Gurion a religious extreemist. That’s good humor.
Not very funny though.
The problem centers not upon Arab rejection of their defeats in war. But rather Arab cowardice to repatriate their Arab refugee populations which their defeat in wars, which they started. Arab and Muslim states unilaterally expelled all Jews living in their countries, following their 1948 defeat. Israel repatriated all of these some 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab and Muslim countries.
A similar number of Arab stateless refugees fled the newly established Jewish state. To this very day, not a single Arab or Muslim country has agreed to repatriate their stateless Arab refugee populations. This problem the Arab states must address. The Balestinians refer to this problem – through the denial of their refugee status – as their ‘right of return’. Utter nonsense. Jews prior to the 1948 Independence War miracle, we lived as stateless refugee populations – scattered across North Africa, the Middle East, and all of Europe – for over 2000 years. Jewish stateless refugees had no rights. So its a lie for Balestinians (Arabs can not pronounce the letter P) to declare that they have rights.
Hi Moshe, to be sure this is a complex issue. The Jews were displaced. There is no doubt. They spent centuries as displaced people. When the state of Israel was set up in 1948 the Palestinians had been living in that land for centuries. That is very hard. That needs to be addressed.
Best of health to you and your family Opher.
But this lie, this myth about Arabs living in the current country of Israel for centuries – simply false. The Ottoman empire destroyed most of the forest lands within Israel. The Ottomans, like the Iranians – not Arabs but converted non-Arabs/Muslims. You can read Mark Twain’s description of these desolate lands. The Muslim Ottoman empire did permit foreign Arabs to work the dessert lands as share-croppers. Ottoman law, which still remains applicable to this very day, the State owned all the land.
Only when Zionist Jews came and bought “worthless” tracts of land and drain the malaria infested swamps did the economy begin to spring to life and jobless Arab populations swarmed to “Greater Syria” in search of jobs. Palestine represents a European name. The Ottomans called this region of T H E I R empire “Greater Syria”, which included the territories of Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and Jordan!
You may ask: what about the Ottoman maps which refer to “Palestine”? The ‘Sick Man of Europe’, could not afford to make its own maps in the 19th century. Simply cheaper to buy European maps.
And good health to you and yours Moshe.
Are you saying that there were not people living in what is now Israel before the Jewish people took over and created the state of Israel? Surely those people in the area had been living there for generations and had land and houses??
I do not contest the fact that the Jewish people, through good irrigation, hard work and farming techniques, brought the land back to life from the poor state it was in before. But is that really relevant?
The first 2 decades of the British mandate, which Britain labeled as “Palestine”, an economic boom occurred and 10s to 100s of thousands of Arabs and Jews came to British Palestine in search of Zionist ideology for Yidden, and work for Arabs.
Yes. Again that sounds very likely. But there were still many people already living there, weren’t there?? Are you say that there were no families displaced who had lived there for generations?
Arabs had their chance to accept the UN 2 State proposition offered prior to Israeli Independence. All Arab States categorically rejected the 2 partition plans which the UN proposed in favor of war. In both 1948 and also in 1967 Arab leaders vowed to totally destroy the Jewish people from off the land.
The Arabs lost both wars of Jewish extermination. The Arab populations within the disputed land, with the Arab nations defeat became stateless refugees scattered across the Middle East, a reality that remains to this day. Balestine never existed as an Arab nation. Arafat did not embrace the name Balestine until early 1964!!!
In my view the Arabs were totally wrong to take that position. Israel is a recognised state.
The British called the area Palestine. Whether it existed as a state is besides the point, isn’t it? The displaced people, like the Jews before them, deserve somewhere to live – a state of their own.
There should surely be as many chances to solve the problem as are necessary.
This is interesting Moshe – but I’ve got to get to bed. Continue this in the morning. I’m keen to understand what you think.
The Arab propaganda pretends that stateless Arab refugees had their land stolen by the Jewish people. This slander compares to the European blood libel. Israel has no conflict with stateless Arab refugee populations. We have a conflict with foreign alien imperialist nations who promote a divide and conquer policy which opens the door by which they can justify their invasion of the Middle East. Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, all countries occupied by European imperialist powers.
So, Moshe – you are saying that none of the Palestinians were displaced when the Jewish people won in 1948 and set up Israel – that this is propaganda?
No. Have never said nor implied the displaces persons both Arab and Jews that occurred as a result of the Arab attempt to complete the Nazi genocide of the Jewish people. Jews repatriated our expelled refugees from Arab and Muslim countries. The same did not happen to the Arab “displaced” refugee populations … about equal to the “displaced” Jewish refugee populations.
Moshe – I think you are looking at this from a very one-sided perspective. There are many sides to this.
People were displaced and are aggrieved. In my opinion, the wrong actions of the Arab states does not justify another wrong.
Its not wrong for the leaders of their people to protect the national interests of their own people. President Trump correctly refers to this as “America First”.
Well, you have cited someone who I consider an imbecile. Trump is creating havoc.
I think we should look much wider than that. If you have such a limited view as that of a national interest that justifies slavery, wars, empires and exploitation.
You have already condemned the Western Powers for their involvement – but they were putting their national interests above the rest of the world.
No. We have to look at the interests of all people and the natural world.
Honestly why you have a poor view of the President truly amazes me. His peace plan has produced incredible results in less than 4 years. Contrast the Obozo clown who permitted passage of the UN Abomination called 2334! Same idiot gave Iran permission to build nuclear weapons with a 10 year delay which his Administration hailed as a great victory! Same idiot paid millions of dollars in blackmail money to Iran. His secretary of state, declared before Congress “What difference does it make”. The similar Nancy P. witch sought to impeach the POTUS over false evidence. The disgrace of the Brett Kavanaugh hearings, which excepted totally unproven accusations by which Kavanaugh suffered vile slander. Yet when Biden accused of rape by Tara Reade … the Democrat hypocrites sing another tune.
President Trump on the domestic front has increased the wages of the common man and greatly improved the economy before the Covid black swan. He took the lead to test upon himself hydroxychloroquine. Wow that’s truly amazing. The Obozo Administration shut down, by sharp contrast, all H1N1 testing during the 2009 swine flu pandemic!
Opher its outright wrong to condemn President Trump without bring some supporting evidence to back up your accusation. The Bill of Rights promises Rights to American Citizens and not to illegal aliens. Illegal aliens and refugees have no rights.
Trump is producing such division and hatred, based on outright lies, that America is melting down into civil war. The division is terrible. The conspiracy theories and junking of experts appalling. The denial of global warming, disbanding of science institutions, defunding of climate and environmental institutions, removal of environmental legislation, removal of workers protection, health and safety and the giving of massive tax deductions to the rich is appalling. His handling of Corona is abysmal. His backing of right-wing nutcases, KKK, rifle association and fascist groups is appalling. His misogyny and racism are disgusting. He can’t read, is lazy and is using his position to amass wealth. Then there is his nepotism and cronyism, corruption, lies and prejudices.
Its an “outright lie” that America is melting down into Civil War? Wow the mob violence in American cities seems like anarchy to me. What conspiriacy theories? Trump got elected with the promise to seal the US Mexico borders. Global warming? I honestly do not trust the crap that Al Gore promotes. That dude just got himself rich from his global warming hysteria.
Just how does his handling of Corona abysmal. What did he fail to do in this black swan? What right-wing nutcases, KKK, fascist groups has he backed. The National Rifle Association protect the right to bear arms. Misogyny? We discussed this with both Gandhi and King. To call the President illiterate does not seem honest to me. You have not brought up any specific policies of state which i can Google.
Moshe – interesting – 200,000 deaths, advocating against measures to reduce transmission, coming out with crackpot solutions – disinfectant, UV light, antimalarial, – urging people back to work, declaring it was a democratic hoax.
The right to bear arms and mass shootings. Perhaps all the Palestinians should have the right to strut about with semiautomatic assault rifles?
Have you not heard his pronouncements about the fascist groups marching on the streets(incidentally – the ones who are extremely antijewish).
The idea of building a fence along the thousands of miles of the Mexican border is utter bullshit.
Better to solve the problems that lead to mass migration – abject poverty, persecution, climate change, violence, war. The money could be far better used.
He is illiterate. Has never read a book.
Moshe – you seem to come from a very right-wing stance – but at least we can talk – and that is the only way forward – to understand the other side and why they think the way they do.
I still haven’t heard what you think the way forward is. I’ve told you my ideas.
The black swan plague has hit all nations hard. Israel has completely shut down our economy for the 2nd time. No one across the planet knows how to treat this Covid plague – NO ONE. NBC, a notorious anti-Trump source accused the President of Covid being a Democratic hoax. Do you believe NBC’s objective reporting? LOL. Its like the Atlantic which reported that Trump said soldiers who died were suckers and losers. Vile slander and yellow journalism do not merit the time of day.
I do not understand “The right to bear arms and mass shootings”. Its not a complete sentence. What Arabs do under the PA authority does not interest me in the least. Worked with a Bedouin arab he told me of a feud in his village that involved his family (his father had 20 children and his Uncle had 40 children. It happened that his Uncle happened to propose marriage to one of his own daughters!) In the span of a week 6 family members on both sides of the families got murdered.
Why does policing the international borders qualify as “bull shit”? You say that the POTUS has never read a book. Wow based upon what physical evidence can you make this astounding claim. The man came from a wealthy family and went to really good schools.
I personally studied Communism at Texas A&M. Troskii, really admired his writings. His grandchildren live in Israel. Came to Israel and immediately joined a far left wing kibbutz. Supported the Meretz socialist party and marched in May Day parades held on the Kibbutz Gan Shmuel.
President Trump, the 1st US President to recognize Jerusalem as the Israeli Capital. First US President to validate PM Begin’s nationalization of the Golan Heights. First US President to validate Jews living within the recaptured Samaria territories and validate Israeli nationalization of these traditional Jewish homelands. Mr. President Trump has my respect and admiration for his vision and courage.
Hi Moshe, yes we do know how to deal with it. It requires a quick lockdown, social distancing, scrupulous handwashing and facemasks. The trouble is that that shuts down the economy which causes other problems.
The best way is to put in place the distancing and handwashing while enabling the economy to operate – a question of balance.
The problem with Trump was that, instead of taking action he politicised it. He first denied that it existed, then called it a democrat hoax, then told everyone it was no big deal it would go away, urged people to carry on as normal, discouraged mask-wearing, held mass rallies, then talked about nutty things like disinfectant and UV, then pushed antimalarial drugs and other untested remedies. All he cared about was the economy – viola – 200,000 dead – many of who could have been saved.
If he had been sensible he would have told people to distance, wash and wear masks – avoid groups, avoid transport and work from home. But he wasn’t and isn’t. He’s a populist fool who only cares about money.
The gun situation in the USA is appalling. The mass shootings are regular and extreme. Assault rifles should never be put in the hands of the public. I’ve lived in the States – my students were shot, I witnessed guns being used on two occasions. It’s a terribly violent country.
Trump has stated he doesn’t read books and he paid someone to sit his SAT exams.
Moshe, you seem to have migrated far to the right from your communist days. One day we might get a real communist State instead of the totalitarian monstrosities that communism developed into. I wish the Mensheviks had taken control.
No foreign politician should take sides in disputes but work with both sides to mediate a solution. Trump meddles. You only like it because he supports your side. But it does nothing to resolve the issues. The problem remains and Trump’s interference will be detrimental in the long-run.
This is not a ‘war’ that any one side can win. It requires both sides to compromise. Bolstering up one side does not help.
The US aint alone in this world wide pandemic. Israel for the second time shall attempt the model that you recommend. The food service industry shall suffer a tremendous hit. Trump politicized it according to the Fake News outlets. The fate of victims of a world wide pandemic no one knows. Guns do not kill. It takes a person to Will to pull the trigger. The social fabric of American society lays in tatters due to nut jobs like that crazy black California Congress woman who encouraged people to attack Republicans any where encountered on American streets.
You say repeatedly that Trump does not read books. But you have not brought any evidence to support your conclusions. That’s bad science. A scientific theory requires empirical evidence. Revisionist history does not interest me. I wish Europeans did not behave as crude barbarians, but a bear will sooner shit on toilets before that happens.
Moshe – I have repeatedly asked for your ideas on solutions to put a stop to this war in the Middle East. All I get back is racism, vindictiveness, revenge and hatred. Who is behaving like a barbarian?
“I still haven’t heard what you think the way forward is. I’ve told you my ideas.”
Bibi just sighed a peace treaty with TWO Arab countries. Whoop that’s moving forward.
No it is not. The basic problems have not been resolved. Two minor countries pay lip-service for reward. You are amassing a mountain of hate and fury. It will rebound on you.
I asked your ideas for solving the problem.
What sides do you refer? I live in this land with my family. Arabs lost their attempt to exterminate Jews. If I have my way, we Jews shall never give them a 3rd chance.
I prefer justice rather than revenge. This antagonism will result in more violence.
Don’t know what this phrase means.
Revenge? Jews kicked Arab butt. What does revenge have to do with it?
A sad way to describe it. People who crow about bringing misery and death to others are not pleasant people.
Am saying, that just as Jews fought and lost wars against the Romans and became stateless refugee populations until the 1948 Independence War victory … that the stateless refugee shoe has switch to the feet of Arabs. Just as defeated Jews became displaced following the Roman military victories so too Arabs became displaced. Whats applies to the goose equally applies to the gander.
But neither was right, was it? The Jews should not have been displaced and neither should the Arabs.
Jew fought and won wars. When Bismark’s Germany defeated France in the 1870 war, no one condemned the 2nd Germanic empires nationalization of Alsace-Lorraine .
Wars are an idiocy whose repercussions resound down the ages. We need an end to wars. We need agreements and that comes about through talking and compromise.
End wars, a platitude political rhetoric heard throughout the generations. WW1 … the war to end all wars etc.
Yet the numbers of wars are decreasing and the UN is mediating and we can look forward to a time when this primitive behaviour ceases and more civilised ways are found.
The world is getting better.
America has fought wars almost its entire history as a nation. US military bases occupy, according to Ron Paul, over 155 different nations. China threatens Taiwan. Human wars and conflicts preceded prostitution.
Yes America has been a monster. Hopefully we are approaching a new, more civilised age with a global perspective – because this vying of nations for supremacy, power and wealth is primitive and destructive.
I’d do away with all nations, have a global government, peace, stability and care about nature.
Sorry its easy to say what you might or might not do, but you have no power to accomplish anything in Washington, just as my personal opinion does not means squat in the Knesset in Jerusalem.
But we can at least express our views and seek progress. The force of a zeitgeist creates change.
Hail success to President Trumps Deal of the Century, wow 2 Arab countries have made an alliance with the Jewish State under his watch.
You look at things from a very narrow perspective and make conclusions that have no foundation. Trump hasn’t been involved.
How can you say that Trump was not involved. Remind me just where did the 3 nations sign the peace treaty?
Show me where he got involved.
Leaders delegate authority. Jimmy Carter, like Obozo the shoe shine boy in the White House, did not know how to delegate authority and like that N word boy, failed in the Office of POTUS.
Now we’re getting into racism – very unpleasant.
Political humor. LOL
Right\wrong a false moral metaphor. The correct model, actions:consequences ratio. Nation States have their own national interests. Leaders of a nation, especially in a democracy, serve the citizens of that nation. A leader of a nation does not have any obligation whatsoever to place the interests of the enemy, despite the false European double talk moral standard that no European country has ever behaved or determined its foreign policy agenda. In short, Israel has no obligation to cause Arabs to cease being stateless refugee populations without a country of their own.
Jews endured the refugee people status for some 2000 years. The Arabs bitch and moan about their plight after less than a century!
Consider the example of the Balfour Declaration, by which the British in 1917 accepted the obligation to establish a Jewish national home. This term “Jewish National Home”, viewed from the skewed interests of the British foreign office included 2 White Papers which severely restricted Jewish immigration to “Balestine”. The British, throughout their limited mandate, interpreted their supposed “Balfour” obligations strictly and only in ways that suited British imperial interests. Yet the EU demands that Israel surrender half of its Capital and negate its 1967 June war victory over the Arabs. LOL HaHaHaHa, what a total joke.
The British aristocracy had no right to do that.
I believe in the United Nations. I believe that only a global body such as that can bring order and stability and prevent wars. It is far better to mediate and find solutions than be be in constant conflict.
Again right has nothing in common with power. The victors of WW1 had the power to carve up the Ottoman empire, to destroy the German state of Prussia, and dismantle the Austria-Hungary empire following the WW1 victory. Just as did the post WW2 Allies expel some 17 million Germans from Poland following the Allied victory.
Those who exercise power often do wrong things. Past precedence does not make things right. The great men of the last hundred years were the peacemakers – Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, not the war-makers.
Gandhi had incest with his young nieces. King had extra-marital affairs. Mandela’s wife committed multiple murders. Yes these men lead their people, but the British imposed 2 state solution produced multiple wars between Hindus and Muslims. Both Gandhi and King were assassinated by their own people.
But we can still admire the way they promoted peace and conflict resolution.
Sure we can, King and Gandhi, and César Chávez – they were my childhood heros. I loved and admired Malcolm x.
Me too. Why not try to emulate them?
But Moshe, the fact that the Jewish people were displaced was wrong. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Surely it is in the interests of the Jewish people to be at peace with its neighbours. That is a goal worth finding a solution. It is in the interests of the nation to find a satisfactory way forward – that would involve compromise and addressing the problem with the Palestinians. That is in the nations interest.
Two wrongs does not make a right does not apply to Nation states. Its a rebuke that a mother says to her small child. Peace/shalom in Hebrew functions as a verb NOT a noun. Lennon’s — “All we are saying is give peace a chance” … that’s a noun not a verb. Peace requires trust. Trust requires that the partners who cut a peace alliance made between allies agree to abide by the preconditions and terms which both parties to the peace alliance swear to up hold and honor.
The concept of Shabbot teaches shalom. Hence that day goes by the name shalom. A person does not invite his/her detested enemies to sit and meal at the shabbot table 3 meals. No the allies to sup together at the shabbos 3 meals sit together as friends and family. Rabin ate a bullet b/c that fool did not understand that allies make peace alliances among themselves b/c they trust one another. A person never agrees to make peace with ones’ enemies unless that peace exist as an unconditional surrender.
Yet only by sitting at the same table in generosity do enemies become friends.
Israeli leaders have for the entire history of the Jewish state expressed their willingness to negotiate. Immediately after the 67 war Israeli leaders offered “land for peace” and the Arabs said no. Now almost 1 million Yidden live in Samaria, so land for peace its off the table.
Well, let them offer it again and let the UN mediate to find a way forward. The alternative is more of the same or worse and that is unacceptable.
No. The made the wrong decision and now they have to live with the consequences of their pig headed stupidity.
Then perhaps the Jewish people deserve the ongoing violence and to live in a state of perpetual war??? Until such time as someone ends it with a single nuclear device or releases a virus?
Intransigence escalates into greater conflict.
A bird in the hand its worth 2 in the bush. We confront missiles from Gaza in a local manner to limit the conflict.
But you do not solve the problem – you escalate it. One day it’ll be a big missile.
Perhaps, I do not make any claims to fore seeing the future.
History tells us what the future is likely to be Moshe. We should always take note.
If so, then why do you favor that Jews give Arab refugee populations a 3rd chance to exterminate Jews?
I want peace – you seem to want war and revenge.
Peace peace what is the beast? Oh under the Trump superb leadership 2 more Arab countries cut a peace deal with Israel. Contrast the peanut farmer who referred to Israel as an Apartheid country.
Well, there won’t be any peace while people remain so war-like and vengeful.
Yidden live in a tough neighborhood.
Absolutely thrilled with the Trump Administrations’ success of bringing peace to the Middle East.
You won’t be for long. Payback is down the road. Nothing has been resolved.
We deal with our problems based upon the practical solution known as — be here now.
Would sooner pee against hurricane winds and hope that the piss would not fly back upon me than trust the UN.
Stay dry Moshe. The UN is the world’s only hope.
According to who Woodrow Wilson? Henry Cabot Lodge, a Republican Senator denounced Wilson’s League of Nations, and the Senate agreed with Lodge. LOL
And they were hopelessly wrong – all concerned with their own power – not peace and stability in the world.
Lodge convinced a majority of Senators to oppose the League of Nations. Whoop Victory.
Fortunately the superior United Nations was born out of the ashes – both institutions devised to help put an end to war, inequality, poverty and protect human rights. Admirable.
Alas post WW2 the GOP lacked a leader in the Senate of Henry Cabot Lodge.
But by comparing your desire to turn back the clock on Arab stateless refugees, let’s turn back the clock and undo the UN Charter.
Let’s just help those that need help instead of kicking them.
If enemies find that they share common interests with their enemy … diplomacy can make progress. Obozo the idiot made “peace” with Iran. This action aroused terror among Sunni Muslims and Arabs. President Trump repudiated the Obozo clown EU/Iran alliance. Sunni States responded by making peace with Israel!
Obama was right. Only through agreements can the future be assured. Trump takes sides and alienates – in the long run it will backfire.
Agreements like “Obamacare”? Wherein Nancy the dumbass declared: “you have to vote for it before you can see it!”
Obamacare was a necessity. Presently millions of Americans have no healthcare at all. That is barbaric.
Bunk on the pharmaceutical industry and national insurance scams.
You’d rather millions live without healthcare?
Hate western monopoly medicine.
So do I.
Right has nothing to do with consequences. Arabs rejected the UN partition plan during the period of the British mandate. Shall we call this decision a correct decision? No of course not. But they made a decision to complete the Nazi genocide of the Jewish people, cause they thought they could. They live with the consequences just as do the European barbarians who have lost the mandate of heaven to rule over or judge other nations, irregardless of the comical International Court!
Moshe – I believe you are wrong. This retributive stance creates hatred and violence. It takes a big man to return a blow with a helping hand rather than escalate with another blow.
I do not believe in punishment and retribution. I believe in actions that reduce the violence.
When I was Headteacher and we had two boys fighting I had two options. I could simply punish the boys for their violence – send them home, give them detentions, or I could resolve the issue. I chose the latter. I brought all the parties together and analysed what had started the problem, who had done wrong and what could be done to rectify the injury. Invariably both parties were at least partially at fault. Invariably both parties could have behaved differently and avoided the conflict. Having established what both parties had done wrong and what they should have done. We addressed the punishments together. I involved them both is agreeing what punishment was appropriate. They were usually harsher than I would have been.
Punishment causes resentment and displacement aggression. Resolving issues takes longer but neither side feels aggrieved. The school became a haven of peace where once it had been full of bulling and violence.
Have personally experienced Arab terrorists blowing themselves up in hotels on Passover, blowing up children’s school buses, the hatred and violence its already here. Not interested in being a “big man”. The great powers seek to make Jews refugees again. Let England divide Wales and Scotland let the British withdraw from Northern Ireland and the French return Alsace-Lorraine. Let Poland return the territories of Prussia back to Germany. Let Spain give freedom to Catalonia. Let Iraq, Iran, and Turkey give freedom to the Kurds. None of these countries accepts the “big man” rhetoric.
Nation States do not compare to small children having a fist fight. The metaphor falls flat.
Moshe – that is what I am saying. You are in the midst of a war.
All these issues need resolving. Having a number of wrongs surely doesn’t make any of them right.
I am saying that the Jewish people need a state without this constant war. The way to do that is to address the grievances of the Palestinians.
Nobody wants to drive the Jewish people out. We want the situation resolved. Violence and oppression merely aggravates.
The first priority of a government … to prevent Civil War. The 2 state solution offered by the same countries who carried out the “Final Solution”, FDR and Churchill refused to bomb the rail lines leading to Auschowitz. Stalin stopped his army and permitted the Germans to put down the Warsaw ghetto revolt. All countries refused to permit Jewish refugees to flee from Hitler’s Europe.
Jews during the British mandate lived as “Palestinians”. Arabs never referred to themselves as “Palestinians” b/c that would have meant that they accepted the Balfour Declaration. In the days prior to ’67 the king of Saudi Arabia publicly announced his support to drive the Jews into the Sea.
It was the Nazis who carried out the Final Solution – not the UK or USA. The camps were liberated by the allies. Churchill should have bombed the railway lines but deployed the bombers elsewhere. He was wrong. Stalin was another monster.
Moshe – we’re going around in circles – pinning blame. It’s immaterial. The ordinary people did not do these things. It was the leaders.
What is your solution to this endless festering problem?
Sorry ya cannot extirminate 75% of European Jewry in less than 4 years without helpers. The British 1939 White Paper condemned European Jewry to the Nazi death camps.
Far too simplistic. These were complex issues and you forget all the good things.
I do not understand what you seek to communicate. The destruction of 75% of all European Jewry has left a huge scare upon my soul.
I can understand that. You can either wallow in that and use it as an excuse to distrust and hate, or you can put it behind you and try to build a better future.
You understand what the violent murder of 75% of all European Jewry means? My family had its roots in Russia and the Ukraine!
The Jews are not alone in suffering massacres of such a level. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Rwanda, Kosovo. The list is endless. Human beings have an unpleasant xenophobic racist side to them. It’s tribalism.
Never implied that Jews alone as a minority population in crude barbarian lands suffered oppression and criminal injustice. Once burned twice weary, that’s a motto applicable to all criminally slaughtered minorities.
Wariness is good – but not if it leads to hatred, division and demonisation.
Hatred takes a long time to heal.
It doesn’t have to. Many Israelis and Palestinians have come together in friendship despite the losses of sons and daughters.
Have worked together with Arabs. We have clubbed together as well. Ooops Arabs – not supposed to drink alcohol. 🙂 The Great corrupter.
Good to hear.
Have no problem with stateless Arab refugees.
I do. I think it lacks compassion and humanity.
Wallow? Europe fucks with Israel and a European Capital City gets vaporized. Europeans loved to attack unarmed Yidden who had no weapons of self defense. It galls these vile barbarians that Israel has its own army and we have a long memory to go with it.
I don’t think the West is intimidated by your weapons or army. They could crush you in a moment. But the truth is that they have been supporting you.
General Dwight D. Eisenhower ordered German civilians to march five miles up the hill from Weimar to see the Buchenwald concentration camp. The stench of death, wow. Yet these cowards claimed they had no knowledge and Eisenhower called them a lier to their faces.
The British did similar with the camps they liberated.
The British White Paper of 1939 instrumentally forced the Nazis sub humans to impose Xtian traditions to murder Jews.
What white paper are you talking about? Are you suggesting that the British were in any way complicit in the holocaust??
The Nazis were not subhuman. They were simply wrong. They wrongly considered Jews to be part of a world-wide conspiracy, saw them as subhuman and scapegoated and demonised them. Ironically, similar to what the Jews are doing with the Palestinians.
1939 and yes the British barbarians guilty as Hell… Off with their Heads. Good for the goose, good for the Gander. Measure for measure. Those vile goons called Jews sub-humans and then lost the war which they started. Resembles the Arab wars against the Jewish State.
Stateless Arab refugees have the same rights which Jewish stateless refugees enjoyed for the last 20000 years … N O N E.
measure for measure … the basis for justice.
No – the basis of justice is fairness and compassion.
You are not explaining – what was this 1939 charter you refer to??
The “White Paper” closed the door of the British mandate territories of Palestine. Jews could not flee Europe to escape the Nazi death.
No such “Palestinian” people ever existed. Name a Capital City of the nation of Palestine. Name a national currency of the nation of Palestine. Hocus Pocus magic.
And Israel? Did that always exist?
It matters not. There are people in need of a homeland.
More more than 2000 years Jews “existed” as stateless refugee populations without a country of our own. Let the Arabs rot for 2000 years and experience a Shoah and then they too might win a war to achieve a homeland.
The kind of thinking that keeps the whole world in a cycle of hate and war.
If it aint broke then don’t fix it.
Israel has peace with 4 Arab countries now. Thanks to President Trump.
We’ll see how long that lasts shall we? I hope you and yours do not suffer in the backlash.
The let Arab or Muslim countries supply them with a homeland.
That could be part of the solution.
In the year 1916 the British and French, during the height of WW1, made a secret treaty (President Wilson refused to validate any and all secret treaties between nations). This secret treaty, known as Sykes-Picot, the two Allied powers agreed to partition among their respective empires Ottoman Greater Syria. France agreed to take as its spoils of victory over the Ottoman province of ‘Greater Syria’ – all of Lebanon, and Syria. England took as its spoils of empire Palestine (which included present day Jordan), and Iraq.
That sounds pretty much what happened Moshe.
So the 2 state solution “scam” serves the interests of foreign imperialist powers who seek to foment Civil War in the region, like Syria today, to justify their intervention/invasion of that divided country. Israel its a small tiny country. Do ya imagine that a tiny country could split itself into 2 hostile parts without a Civil War?
Hey Moshe, the Middle East was carved up by the imperialists for their own gain and that is indeed playing out to this day. But that wasn’t right. It was very wrong. It was arrogant and ignorant.
That imperialism has collapsed. The legacy has many negative connotations.
Israel is indeed a small country but it seems to me that it is presently undergoing a slow-burning civil war between its Jewish and Muslim populations with the displacement of the Muslim population – the Palestinians – being central to that conflict.That antagonism has fuelled the surrounding Arab States to side with the Palestinians.
I am looking at ways of defusing this ‘civil war’ and creating peace and harmony so that both the Jewish and Muslim people can have their own land and live in peace.
I know it is complex but there has to be a way forward.
The imperialist powers who carved up the Middle East and China, they did so b/c they had the power to do as they pleased. As did Congress when it betrayed solemn treaties made with Indian nations. Arab refugees have no Israeli citizenship. Who supplies the Arab refugees in Gaza with weapons? Europe, Russia, China, the US etc etc etc. Israel as a young nation can not bomb London or Paris or Moscow for these powers meddling in the Middle East. The conflict in this region stems for great power attempts to foist their interests and policies upon the States of the Middle East.
Iraq under the dictator sought to sell its natural resource ie oil and gas in any currency by which it most profited. The Cheney/Bush war criminals staged 9/11 to justify an illegal invasion of Iraq to force that OPEC country to only sell its own natural resources in US dollars.
Yes – I agree with you. Western influence has been disastrous and made many people rich. But that does not justify anything – merely explains some of it.
The way forward is to rise above the past – not sink back into it.
Nation states past present and future base policy upon national interests.
That is precisely what has been wrong.
That’s the reality of human history. Anything else … just pie in the sky political rhetoric.
No. I think you are wrong. It takes good will. All people are the same – the same species – genetically identical. We can improve and live in peace. The world is getting better.
People have 2 legs and crap on the toilet. But the diversity of cultures wow its amazing how different people are and behave.
Yes – and it is amazing the reasons behind that. I would recommend Humankind by Gregson – a great read.
Dividing people into different cultures and demonising is a surefire way to create war. That’s what the Nazis did with the Jews. Ironic isn’t it?
Do you not think you have a similar attitude to those people?
Not quite. The Nazis separated people into races. Jews we do not qualify as a race because any person can convert and become Jewish.
Splitting hairs there Moshe.
Wisdom expressed through the acquired skill of understanding – defined as separating like from like.
Attempting to paint a fine oil painting while using a whitewash brush … not to clever.
Can produce extremely interesting results.
Tell that to the Mona Lisa. LOL
To understand one requires knowledge. To be set into an archaic system is not wisdom.
logic by definition — not archaic.
When were these put together?? Remind me.
Oral Torah … its a logic system by definition.
Smiling, its a real pleasure to discuss politics of the Middle East with you.
Right/wrong/arrogant/ignorant etc. Actions have their consequences. Ya toss a stone into a pond and ripples occur. Arabs lost their wars of extermination of the Jewish people, both Jews and Arabs have to live with the consequences of their defeat. Had the Arabs won their wars of Jewish extermination, Jews and Arabs would also have to live with the consequences. Just as European barbarians have to live with the consequences that they possess no moral mandate to rule. European 1st world status which shaped the arrogance of Kipling’s “white man’s burden” no longer exists following the Shoah/Holocaust.
Moshe – my view is very simple – I believe all people have equal worth regardless of race, colour, religion or intelligence.
Yes – actions do have consequences – but those consequences can be mitigated through correct action.
please remember – those European barbarians who used force to carve out an empire for power and wealth – they also exploited their own people. The population of Britain were brutalised, exploited and impoverished by those same people. They lorded it in luxury while the general public worked themselves silly, lived in appalling conditions and starved.
Opher your view has allot of folks like you supporting this idea. Alas you do not have to live with the consequences if your opinion results in the mass destruction of the Jewish people. The founding fathers of America limited the franchise to vote to land owning white people. Over the years governments have enlarged the democratic franchise. But no leader has opened the franchise to non citizens who live in foreign countries. The closest to this did occur when the Democrats permitted safe haven cities to illegal aliens.
Moshe – the Jewish people live every second of every day with the threat of annihilation. One day it will happen unless steps are taken to find a way forward. One nuclear device.
The Torah defines a prophet as a person who commands mussar to all generations. The idea of foretelling the future … this the Torah refers to as magic – a Torah abomination.
As an antitheist, I do not really care what any religious doctrine says. They were all, in my opinion, created by men. They have some good stuff and some bad stuff.
One can see into the future by extrapolating from the past. Violence and oppression is a cycle that leads to more of the same. It is a cycle that needs breaking.
Torah – that’s the basis of Jewish cultural traditions. Only in the exile period, known as the Dark and Middle Ages, did Jewish scholars – limited by the Church dogma of ‘Free Will’, limit Torah scholarship unto strictly religious subjects. The Torah functioned as the Constitution of the Republic of the 12 Tribes. The founding Fathers based their concept of a Republic upon the Torah Constitutional Republic.
This Xtian rhetoric nonsense that separates the “word of God” from works created by men, what a bunch of hoooeee. The entire Bible was created by men! Perhaps you can know the future but i did not see the recent peace treaties between Israel and 2 other Arab countries coming.
I agree – the entire Bible, Quran and Hindu scriptures – all created by men.
The treaties are a good step forward – but we need a lot more and in my opinion until the Palestinian situation is resolved there will not be peace.
Peace its made with friends and family NOT with enemies who merit no trust.
No again. Peace is made with your enemies. Through dialogue and understanding you find new friends. Demonising people only creates division.
The Torah does not advise making peace with despised enemies who merit no trust. Sh’Cem raped Dina the daughter of Yaacov. The sons of Yaacov used the ploy of circumcision as the means to destroy the entire city of Sh’Cem. The brothers of Yosef preferred selling their brother as a slave due to their lack of trust. Both decisions taken the Torah rebukes. Nonetheless these stories teach a powerful mussar on the evil inclinations within the heart.
I do not need any texts to inform me on the right behaviour. I prefer to use modern science and psychology. If you do not talk to your enemies then you cannot make progress.
Violence, distrust and hate creates more violence, distrust and hate. There are many instances where Jews and Palestinians have become good friends. Their losses of children brought them together instead of promoting hatred.
People are good. Leaders and nations sow division.
We Jews study our Torah and Talmud to define tohor as opposed to tumah human attributes. The concept of prayer: a Yid stands before a Safer Torah and dedicates to self actualize tohor attributes by how that Yid interacts socially with his family friends neighbors and people.
Tohor and tuma exceptionally complex and abstract terms. But the entire Jewish culture revolves around these 2 most essential concepts which teach how to or how to not behave with other people.
Knowledge and wisdom – polar opposites. The latter means practical experience. The former refers to information acquired, usually from books. Mishna means “repetition”, hence the wisdom of Jewish scholarship expresses itself as halaka l’ma’aseh…. practical actions.
I would disagree here Moshe. Knowledge can come from experience, not just books. Good education is about discovery leading to knowledge.
Remember applying for a minimum wage job and rejected due to a lack of experience? Wisdom and hands on experience go together like a hand sliding into a wet leather glove.
I do not see the relevance. Wisdom comes from knowledge and understanding.
Oil and water – wisdom and knowledge
Which emulsify into fine milk.
Torah teaches by means of משל\נמשל
I’ll give that a miss.
Emulsions, vinaigrette, hollandaise and mayonnaise. Good for a salad but not applicable to the differences between wisdom and knowledge.
You’re wrong again Moshe – wisdom comes out of knowledge and experience.
I do not think you need to be taught or instructed how to behave with respect and treat all people as equals with honesty.
Science and psychology knowledge acquired through book learning. I have personal Arab friends, but they like myself do not determine national policy of any Arab country.
I think we all do – we affect the zeitgeist.
Not according to the traditions taught by the Talmud.
Talmud has nothing to do with the fads embraced by a particular period of time. Justice, in a word defines Torah faith. Justice requires diplomacy conducted between partner allies currently experiencing a conflict of interests. The Talmud sets the model of lateral common law courts of law.
It’s not stuck in some archaic thinking from long ago then?
No. Logic – Oral Torah logic – works by making measured comparisons. Common law courts require the skill to bring “measured” comparative Cases. Another name for Common law — Case/Law.
I’ll be my own judge of my morality. I prefer to be free, not ruled by any archaic systems or laws.
As an atheist praise G-d i resemble that remark. 🙂
Torah faith aint no belief system. To cut a Torah ברית\brit alliance requires swearing a Torah oath. Funny thing about the noise testament belief theology/system, it never once brings the Name revealed in the 1st commandment at Sinai. Ya can not cut a brit alliance without swearing a Torah oath using this Name. HaHaHa LOL Jesus son of Zeus – the whoreship of other Gods.
All religious belief and archaic systems are prisons.
Common law stands upon logic not religion. LOL
Depends what you mean by common law – mob law? Lynching?
British law — a common law system. Virginia law likewise based upon common law.
Hmmmm – not sure about that – too much put in by the rich to protect the rich.
Moshe – I have repeatedly asked for your ideas on solutions to put a stop to this war in the Middle East. All I get back is racism, vindictiveness, revenge and hatred. Who is behaving like a barbarian?
A barbarian … defined as a cave like man who clubs a woman over the head and rapes her… a European.
It seems the Jews are acting more like the barbarians at this minute – bombing civilians, flattening homes, killing protestors, treating people like animals. Who’s the barbarians? Who is calling others subhuman and saying they rape?
That’s how the Nazis started.
Jews just like Goyim only more so. I love the Dresden slaughter of Nazis.
Those weren’t Nazis. They were ordinary people just like you and me. This is where holocausts start.
No. It the everyday German placed Hitler in power, they bear direct responsibility for their democratic choices. Back to actions and consequences again.
No you are wrong again. Hitler got elected on a minority. The opposition was split. The majority of the German people opposed him.
I am amazed by the irony of your words. You live in an extreme right-wing theocracy with extreme policies that have more in common with Hitler than they do with the average German, yet you don’t see it. You stereotype and use derogatory racism, you avow revenge and violence and delight at the misery it causes for your ‘enemies’ yet deplore the similar actions meted out by others on the Jewish people. Can you not see the irony?
Bunk. Hitler’s Party won a boat load of seats so Hindenburg decided to appoint Hitler as chancellor of the Reichstag.
You do talk ignorant bollocks. In the federal election of July 1932, the Nazis won 37.3% of the popular vote (13,745,000 votes), an upswing by 19 percent, becoming the largest party in the Reichstag, with 230 out of 608 seats
In an election held in July 1932, the Nazis won 230 governmental seats; together with the Communists, the next largest party, they made up over half of the Reichstag.
Moshe – The communists were the party they opposed!! They were fascists (right-wing nationalists) who stood on a platform opposing communists.
Do you not understand anything????
Fascist vs. Commies … 2 sides of the same Socialist coin.
Don’t be daft. Polar opposites. Nazis – right-wing fascists – communists left-wing totalitarian.
A minority did not elect Nancy Pelosi to head the House. In the midterm election the DemoRATS won a majority in the House and that criminal party appointed Pelosi and her toads.
Political horse track for ya fools. I put my money that Trump not only wins the White House but bitch Pelosi and her DemoRAT toads lose their majority in the House. That the GOP rules both the Senate and Congress just as it did in 2016.
I hope you are wrong. That would be a disaster for the whole world.
smiling with a broad open smile at the prospect.
Utter nonsense, Israel its a theocracy like the Vatican is a Communist state. Utterly and totally absurd.
So how much political power do the extreme religious groups wield in this colation partnership? Quite enough for me to consider it amounts to a theocracy.
The religious parties within the Israeli coalition government LOL the Joint List – Arab Political Parties goes the 3rd most mandates to the Israeli Knesset!!! LOL Likud and Blue and White #’s 1 and 2 – both secular parties for crying out loud. Shas and United Torah Judaism got 9 and 7 mandates respectively. 16 Seats out of 120 seat, but for you that amounts to a theocracy!! That’s racism. Shas got 7.69 % of the popular vote, while UTJ got 5.98 % of the popular vote. Dude ya need to get real.
When a party holds the position of power it dictates the rules. The extremists in coalition always dictate.
Give an example.
Comments are closed.