The Choice Between Labour and Tory

I’m reading all the virulent Press about Corbyn being an extremist who will break the country. Every possible problem is blown into a crisis. The anti-Semitism, the cost of nationalising, the bullying tactics of Momentum, the sharing of platforms with unpleasant terrorists.

No stone is unturned as the Tory media react hysterically to the possibility of a real Labour government the likes of which we haven’t really had since the 1940s – you know – the one that brought in the NHS and Welfare State – the one that the Tory media shrieked was going to break the country and was a bunch of commies.

I think we need to put aside all this stupidity and focus on the real stuff – the policies.

Votes do matter as we see. We’ve had this bunch of unpleasant Tories in power wreaking havoc on public services, forcing austerity and creating Brexit because of the way people voted.

We really do only have a choice between two. We either get a Tory government or a Labour one. No other party has a chance of forming a government.

Ultimately it is not about personalities or all the peripherals; it is about policy.

So a comparison of policies is in order:

Tory Policy

a. Tax cuts for the top end

b. Tax cuts for corporations

c. An austerity programme for everyone else

d. Pay freezes, cuts and lousy pension changes for all public services

e. Crisis in education, policing, the courts, the NHS, councils, social services

f. Forcing people into the gig economy

g. Further cuts in welfare and a hit on pensions

h. A hard Brexit


Labour Policy

a. A progressive tax regime that will take a modest amount off the top end and corporations

b. Borrowing money while it is cheap to fund infrastructure projects and the future

c. End austerity

d. Fund public services properly and end the crisises

e. Nationalise key industries (Power and Rail)

f. End pay freezes for public servants and address the crisis in schools, NHS, police etc.

g. Fund education and invest in the future

h. Remove draconian Student loans

I. A soft Brexit


For me it is obvious. Labour policies make complete sense. They can be afforded. They are fairer and they would create a much happier country.

I think that borrowing to invest in the future and stimulate the economy will pay handsome dividends. I think these policies of Labour will address the grotesque inequality that has built up. I think nationalising will put profits into the economy and not the pockets of fat cats.

I think saddling our kids with huge debt is wrong.

I think investing in education is investing in the future.

But you can make your own choice! Just don’t preach at me with stuff straight out of the Daily Express!!


109 thoughts on “The Choice Between Labour and Tory

  1. I don’t think people have to read the papers, they can see for themselves what is going on. You live in a small village, secluded from the real outside world. You do not live in an area where you as a white person would not be welcome, and please don’t deny it. I live in a very nice area and I don’t have to face a Town or City or Street where the majority are Muslims who hate you (I am not claiming all, for I know that there are many muslims who are scared of their own), where there are so called “teaching centres” where radicalization goes on, where there are more Mosques than Churches, where you are told “this is our Country soon there will be sharia law”, and YES that is said. You are comparing this Marxist Labour Party with the Labour Party that came in after the War. There is no comparison. You are my age and we both benefited from all that Labour Government brought in You can deny the truth as much as you want Opher but the truth is Corbyn and his cohort MacDonell are extremely dangerous. Corbyn/McDonnell do not admit the truth of Momentum and the thugs and the constant bullying of the MPs who don’t agree with them. Corbyn/McDonnell do not condemn the truth of the so called “say no to hate campaign” as they bully and throw slanderous remarks like “Racists” at those that oppose them. Corbyn/McDonnell do not condemn MEND who have infiltrated the Police/The Ambulance Service/the NHS/the Education Authorities, all under the pretense teaching these people how to deal with muslims. Then we come to the anti semitism of Corbyn himself, you going to deny that, when even his own Tom Watson had enough to say about his Leader. Corbyn has always been anti semitic. This is the Labour Party you think that can run this Country. Have you forgotten Blair, and the note on the desk “no bloody money left”. That is Labour, theory always been “Spend, Spend, Spend”, Brexit you object to legitimate votes and a win by the majority, because it did not go your way. Take a look at Europe and the mess they are in, they are terrified that we have left because they know its a matter of time before the others do. You believe Europe is so great, then why do you live here. There is a lot wrong here in this Country and I am not saying the PM has the answers, but Corbyn is the very last thing this Country wants, Corbyn is a danger, and I did not get that from the Express. I have more intelligence than that to read those sort of papers, or as you said Right Wing Propaganda.

    1. Anna – it is certainly true that there are many centres with a preponderance of Muslims. I am sure that some of them are unpleasant.
      I do not like Islam, or any other religion, and think that it has been extremely bad policy to have allowed these enclaves to develop. We should have made much more effort to integrate these people.
      We also need to properly police the schools, mosques, centres and ensure that radicalisation and indoctrination do not go on.
      The stupidest thing is to allow the setting up of religious schools, free schools and academies which perpetuate this segregation. All children should be brought up with English as their language and British values as their foundation (tolerance, democracy, freedom etc.).
      Just keep it in proportion – 4.5% of the population is no threat, 95.5% of the population does not want sharia law and I bet a good proportion of the Muslims don’t either.
      No – you are totally wrong about Corbyn. He stands full square for the radical Labour values that the Labour Party was formed for. It is the Blairs and Mandelsons who took it into being a right-wing Thatcherite Party in order to gain power. They did that because they perceived that the media would do exactly what they are doing with Corbyn and poison the public. That is what they are doing.
      The media is owned by the top 1% and supports the establishment. They tell lies.

      1. Opher, you are so blind (or perhaps just too stubborn) to admit the truth to Corbyn and his cohort MacDonnell. Both are still supporters of the IRA, have you forgotten the IRA Murdered innocent men/women and children, not forgetting British Troops, then the Assassination Attempt of the Prime Minister at the time, it may have been Margaret Thatcher, but the fact was it was The British Prime Minister. Corbyn/McDonnell support the Palestinians and most of all Corbyn, his Son, McDonnell; and the rest of the cohorts are Anti-Semitic. They support other Terrorist factions, attend meetings, march with them. Is every newspaper a liar, every person who sees and knows what is going on a Liar. Corbyn has done immense damage to the Labour Party. When you refer to the Labour Party that came into power after the War that was then this is now, yes they did good things and yes people benefitted from the NHS, better schooling etc. What precisely do you think Corbyn will do, he will borrow and borrow and spend spend spend as they always do. They will allow more and more illegal immigrants/murderers/criminals/rapists into this Country, when what they should do is CLOSE the Borders once and for all. I would not under any circumstances trust this Country, the Country of my Birth the Country I love, to this bunch of dangerous very dangerous people. It is already a frightening prospect that these two men exist.

      2. Anna the Tories are destroying every public service – Education, NHS, Police, Social Services. It’s austerity for the poor while tax cuts for the bankers. Can’t you see that? Corbyn will put that right.
        Don’t believe the media Tory lies. He did not support the IRA.

  2. I’m afraid that agreement with you would be impossible.

    You need to read the Guardian and see for yourself what they have to say about some Labour Party people. It is completely false to claim that it is the work of the Tory media.

    I think Corbyn and his supporters are a pretty miserable bunch and most of them are presently unfit for leadership through lack of qualifications and experience. You can’t just shove a bunch of ne’er do wells into government posts.

    As for Labour borrowing money while it’s cheap – who’s kidding who here? We’ve seen them in action with that before and look what happened – we’re still paying it back today.

    No. I’m sorry, Labour is a spent force, riddled with extreme left nutters.
    Although not a natural Tory voter myself, I agree with the vast majority of this country that Theresa May and cabinet are actually leading the country very well indeed and tackling numerous major issues in a diligent and thorough manner. Long may they reign.

    1. Well you stick with May and watch the various institutions crumble away and I’ll put my faith in something more radical and beneficial to the people.
      Who was it owns the Guardian again?
      BTW – This Tory government is borrowing money at a rate that outstrips any Labour government.

  3. What’s printed of some crumby leaflet might make sense to you, but look at the people who would have to undertake it. Who is there to rely on with that bunch of hypocrites, bigots, racists and flat-capped unionists. I don’t want these 1950’s type people anywhere near our leadership.
    I’d have to say that presently there is no other choice than Tory. There’s not a cat’s chance in hell that Corbyn could ever become PM, not after his shambolic dealings with the anti-Semitic accusations and the Russian nerve agent attack. He’s consistently far too weak an individual, and when push comes to shove, he gets pushed and shoved by even more hardline extreme-left party cohorts. He’s more or less off the political radar now as far as any chances of PM as far as most people are concerned. Or at least that’s the opinion of pretty much everyone that I work with at my school.

    1. Far too intelligent and sensible you mean. You expect him to jump straight in with the Nerve Gas situation and lay blame without proof? What do you think the leader of the opposition is meant to do? I would suggest question is the answer!
      As to the Jewish right-wing council, well I don’t think Corbyn has a racist bone in his body.
      A shame that people working in some schools like to put their own head in a noose. You’d expect them to have more sense. Especially when they live with the mess that the Tories have made of education. Gove was probably the worst ed minister I’ve ever seen. Or perhaps they like pay freezes, austerity, education cuts, narrow curricula, three part lesson tyranny, an end to imagination, skills and arts subjects, knowledge based cram courses and politicised ofsted.
      People are such gullible sheep. If the Tory media say it it must be true.

      1. No, it wasn’t. I don’t rate the man at all. He’s either on top of his own job or he is not.
        In this case – and several others of note – he was not and his rather empty quality of ownership of the problem – in an intellectual capacity – was rather embarrassing.
        He’s in denial over Russian interference because he’s always been impressed with Soviet edict. What you seem to ignore is it’s not about Corbyn’s attitude to Jews, (I couldn’t care what he secretly thinks) although his comments on the wall mural were particularly grim, however, it’s the dreadful scum that he surrounds himself with. These people scare the life out of me.

        No, we have an excellent school, with excellent central and local government support and we experience no such adversity as you make claim. I don’t even recognise any of what you’re batting on about at all.
        I should add that our highly qualified staff are and continue to be impressed and thankful of Mr. Gove’s strategies and achievements, thank you very much.
        I can’t speak for everyone but own last teacher’s union meeting was extremely positive and I think many attendees would question your motives here. I get the impression you want to stir up upset for the sake of upset.

        If anything is a shame, it’s perhaps your own situation where you find yourself so far out of the loop and pine for the days when you had a credible position in life, instead of being a complaining nuisance.

    1. Eliza – I don’t know what school you teach at – sounds like a primary school to me – but you are obviously not hearing or seeing what I am. I stay in touch and see the despondency, overwork, underpay and disheartening curriculum. That’s why they are leaving in droves and they can’t recruit enough.
      Doesn’t really sound too much as if you know anything about education. Are you really a teacher?

      1. I no longer teach accountancy full-time since I became the administrator at a Steiner school. I still do teach privately for crammers doing A level, but only at this time of year. I think what you’re talking about depends on the local education authority and yes, I am aware some of them are pretty poor but I’ve yet to meet anybody that’s walking out. Thankfully we don’t fall short of anything.

      2. The English Baccalaureate is universal, as are the changes to syllabi, the education cuts, pension cuts, workload increase, class size increase, worsening of conditions of service, pay freeze and the restriction of teaching methods. My school has had an unprecedented staff turnover – two thirds have left in the last six years. The staff morale is at rock bottom. This is not a LA problem. Education is now in a crisis. My school has had to lay off staff and some subjects are in trouble. The creative subjects have really suffered.

  4. I don’t know anybody in any job with annual increments even matching inflation increases. It’s not just a teacher’s issue. Neither does it matter which government is in power, education always gets a short stick.

    Ha ha, the Bacca-what? Gosh me, there’s a term that’s on the end of everyone’s tongue – not! Where did you teach…Eton?
    These days we (us normal folk) just settle for shorthand – “CC”, as in curriculum.

    What’s this LA problem?
    I’m thinking shoot ups with guns, gangs running riot, school gates like a fortress!
    I’d better order some stab-vests for us all asap!

    1. I thought you were in education. The English Bac was brought in by Gove – The English Baccalaureate (EBacc) is a school performance indicator linked to the General Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE). It measures the percentage of students in a school who achieve 5+ 5-9 (formerly, A*-C) grades in traditional academic GCSE subjects (to include English, maths, a science, one of history or geography, an ancient or modern foreign language, and one additional GCSE-level qualification).
      The effect of this stupid qualification was to squeeze the creative curriculum forcing minority subjects like Art, Music, Drama and Humanities into further pressure. It had the effect of restricting the curriculum and narrowing provision – a strait-jacket.
      Of course there are big difference with different governments. I was in education for thirty six years. Under Tories there are always cuts and wage depreciation. Under Labour there was far better funding. It is a pattern that does not alter.
      Are you sure you have ever been in education? LA – Local Authority – standard ed abbreviation.

      1. Do I detect that you’re a natural for humorous banter and able to laugh at all the bureaucratic woffle? Standard ed abbreviation? – lol maybe if you’re managed by a LA, but not if you’re not.
        For someone so determined to stamp his educational credentials why aren’t you able to determine the differences between a Steiner school and one under the complete control of LA? Yes, I know what LA is, it was merely the fact that they are of no concern to me anymore. They come, they look, they question, they go.
        We turn out kids with behavioral problems, developmental disorders, autism, aspergers, anxiety issues, psychological trauma, even dyslexia etc.
        I’ve been in education for 38 years and Steiner’s for 17, without the reincarnation nonsense I’d hasten to add.
        Personally, I think Bac revision was necessary. We have a whole generation of kids resolutely glued to an iPhone seeking the answer, with examination level standards that I could have passed in my sleep back in the day.
        Accountancy A-level papers are now more or less what O-level was. O-level is what 3rd year was. I can’t emphasise enough to some kids how much better they will have to do at University level.
        I’m not going to go near your claims of Tory woes and Labour gains, although I’ve kept diaries that might give your claims a run for their money. For me, it was circa 2000, when as an HOD decided to look out for myself.

        Nighty, night, some of us have school in the morning…

  5. Yes I am well aware of Steiner and I approve of a great deal of its creative approach to education. I have a friend whose girls both went to a Steiner school and got a lot out of it.
    LA schools might not be of concern to you but we were talking mainstream education where most teachers teach and most kids are schooled. It is of great concern to me. I took a great deal of pride in the school I managed and have a son who is still teaching there and grandchildren going through the system. I want to see it flourish and I want my son and grandchildren to have as good an experience as I did as a teacher. My time as a student was severely lacking and I have no wish for schools to return to that moribund futile memory test that education was during the fifties and sixties which is what this government is intent on doing. I fought through my teaching career for better standards and a far better way of doing it. Just because I’m now retired does not mean that is a fight I should walk away from. The education of our kids is the most crucial thing in the world. What this government is doing is criminal.
    You have perhaps been away from mainstream education too long and missed out on the great stuff that was going on. I can assure you that at my school we turned out huge successes and that no kids had ever worked harder. They were a credit.

  6. I have to ask “what is wrong with you”, are you being serious when you say Corbyn (and McDonnell) did not support the IRA, well you need to check your facts before you make such a ridiculous statement as that. Corbyn has “Always” supported the IRA he has supported Gerry Adams and that other murderer McGuinness. He has proudly stood with both time after time, been photographed with them countless of times, supported those IRA killers who chose to starve themselves to death. I take it you will claim that to be propaganda. You will be claiming next that Corbyn does not support Terrorist Groups, like Hezbollah, or go on marches supporting “Death to the Jews” and “Death to Israel” banners by his side, in front of him, behind him, Terrorists flags flying where he stands. He made a point of visiting, on the Feast of The Passover, a Far Right Jewish Group who want to see the “Death of Jews” and an end to Israel, Corbyn could have gone to his local Synagogue but no he chose this Far Right Militant Jewish Group, made him look good, No it made him look even more Anti Semitic. It is not all lies and if you think for one moment Corbyn will put everything right then you are the one believing all the lies coming from the bullies who run the Labour Party. There is no Labour Party these days. Its run by Momentum and the rest of the thugs who threaten those moderate Labour MPs who do not agree with Corbyn. I don’t agree with everything that Theresa May does, in fact she has been a disappointment to me, what I want to see is someone much stronger.

    The Bleeding Heart Liberals have destroyed everything good about this Country, they can’t control the illegal immigrants, they are letting murderers/rapists come into this Country. Please don’t tell me thats rubbish it is not. In a small quiet Town that I live in, there were Police Raids, not for drugs as one would expect, but for “Slavery”, Muslims were arrested for this. In a small place like this, such a crime exists. Eight years ago Oxfordshire Council and the Police knew about the gang of Muslim men that had kidnapped and were raping young white girls, one was 11 years of age, she was to be sold for sex. Did we all hear about this, NO of course not, and why well we know the answer to that don’t we? What do you think the “Slavery Charge and those muslims arrested” from this Town means?

    You insult my intelligence with the response you gave above.

    1. Every time Anna you deflect from the policies of the parties, which is what the article was about, to emotive issues. Jeremy has been working in both Ireland and Israel to look for peaceful solutions. He does not support terrorism and never has.
      There have been a number of situations involving Muslims and they need dealing with by the police.
      The immigration from outside the UK could be stopped overnight but the Tories have done nothing about it in their ten years in power. Why is that?

      1. Opher, why on earth do you persist with that nonsense that Corbyn does not support Terrorists. He most certainly does, he marches with groups that support Hezbollah, he has spoken on platforms with people who are from that group along with that other one Khan.. He defended and still does Adams, Adams and McGuinness were murderers – you can dismiss that as much as you like, shaking hands with the Queen, an absolutely disgraceful performance, I felt ashamed that the Queen should betray all those Soldiers that died all those people Catholic or Protestant that were butchered by the orders of Terrorists. For Terrorists ie Adams and McGuinness, supported by Corbyn and his cohort McDonnell. The trouble with you is no one must disagree with you, you are right all the time, anyone who disagrees well need I say. Corbyn looking for Peace in Northern Ireland, not Ireland, just the North and Israel, are you being serious. How can a man be looking for Peace when all the time they are supporting Terrorist Groups that murder people. No War or Conflict is nice, no one wants to see the deaths that we do, but thats what happens in Wars. So I take it that Hezbollah are not murderers. What precisely do you expect the Israelis to do, not defend their Country, of course they will and why not. The Palestinians use their women their children in these situations, just as the Viet Cong did, just as you see in any war situation. Is that right, in my book NO, but it happens.

        You shock me with “there have been a number of situations involving Muslims”, a number Opher? What do you mean a number two, three what. There are more than people realize or have been told and why because its been hidden. Hidden by the local authorities, hidden by the police hidden by the government, we must not upset the muslims. Why Not? Those muslim men that kidnap little white girls off the streets for sex they rape them/sell them like a lump of meat so any amount of muslim men can rape them/.sell them into slavery. Its in probably every big City/Town even here by the English Seaside. This is not new this has been going on for years and years. Who opened the floodgates to more illegal immigrants Blair and the labour Government, and what did Blair and his cohorts order “they ordered that the real figures be hidden that the truth of letting in men who had criminal records must be hidden from the British Public”. I want this Government to take action now, but no PM will do that, there would be calls of Racism. Sooner or later there will be blood on our Streets, you can only push people so far. There are more Mosques than Churches, they have their own schools, they enforce their own laws, no local authorities are allowed to see what goes on in their schools. Those muslims who want power who have all the right connections in government, in the police etc. They want this Country under sharia law and youy can deny it as much as you like, they make no bones about what they want. I just hope that I live long enough not to see my Country handed over to these people. Corbyn in power I fear what that dangerous man can do, sometimes he looks as though he has mental problems.

      2. Anna I do not believe for an instant that Corbyn supports terrorism. I think that is a daft thing to say. He has been working with a wide range of people to find a peaceful solution in the Middle East. That means settling the Palestinian problem. What Israel does is often inflammatory, aggressive and wrong. The shooting of kids the other day was an example. The illegal settlements is another. What we need is acceptance of Israel, peace and a Palestinian State.
        I agree with you that the police and local authorities have been appalling in not dealing with the sexual abuse of children. There is a racial element in it. They need to stamp it out. Thank heavens that they are finally acting. But that has nothing to do with the Labour Party.

  7. Anna Cottage, I agree with your statement. You waste your words trying to persuade Opher to accept your points. He has joined the cult of Corbyn whom he described as “intelligent”, just puts up a stone wall of tory media conspiracy and makes wild generalisations without any substantive facts backing them up. Well, we all know that Jezza was an academic failure but of more relevance is the point you made about his attending an extremist Jewish group for Passover. How thick is that when his party is in the middle of a controversy about anti-Semitism within the party? Even Jon Lansman, co-founder of Momentum, has criticised the indecision and inaction of the Labour Party over the anti-Semitic behaviour. Jezza’s crass insensitivity in attending the extremist group is similar to when he invited members of Sinn Fein to Parliament days after the IRA Brighton bomb. You have to wonder where Jezza’s brain is, if he has one.

    1. Mr Nalson, thank you so much for your kind words of support, thats means rather a lot to me. I did not know about Jon Lansman, thats very interesting. I think that Corbyn has probably some mental problems. Corbyn believes firmly he will be the next Prime Minister, in fact we must do all we can to make sure that never happens, he is such a dangerous man, this Country is so unsettled, if he came to power God help us. He comes from a wealthy background, his own fortunes would surprise some. For me I would not trust a man who could cheat on what two or is it three wives, his taste in women well when one looks at that woman MP who sticks like glue to him, dear oh dear. Seriously, he is a Traitor, Opher denies Corbyn’s relationship with Adams and McGuinness and the IRA, he defends people who ordered the deaths of British Soldiers. I had forgotten that Invite to Sinn Fein when they had arranged the Assassination of the British Prime Minister on British soil, how Opher or anyone can defend this nasty vicious little man Corbyn.

      1. Bede/Anna – just look at the policies and what they stand for. You two are supporting the most right wing government we’ve had since Thatcher.

      1. The group want to see the destruction of Israel. In my view that makes them extremist. Yes, they are left-wing but your assumption that a left-wing group cannot be extremist is patently wrong.

      2. So we have a Jewish group who want to see the destruction of Israel?
        Of course you can have extremist Left-wing groups. I don’t know enough about this particular Jewish group to comment.

      3. Opher, It is named Jewdas. Very extremist, ultra left-wing.
        If one could forget about all the left-wing, right-wing stuff, they’re sort of similar to the Nazi’s in terms of the ferocity of their ideology. The average moderate Jew is an “untermensch” in their eyes.
        All through Corbyn’s political career he has always been scurrying around in the company of extremism.

  8. Opher, has Jezza been to Israel? What business is it of his to concern himself with Hamas & Hezbollah when they have no direct relevance to the UK? Why does he need to be “friends” with them? Is he thinking of opening branches for them in the UK, maybe on the High Street in Islington? Two leading IRA commanders have stated publicly that Jezza wanted an IRA victory over the British Army and had no influence on the peace protest in Ireland. That is straight from the horse’s mouth. What more proof does one need?

    1. I don’t know Bede. I think he has. He has been active in the peace process sufficient to warrant two peace prizes from the UN.
      I wouldn’t put too much by what some of the IRA say.

      1. Opher, interesting programme on Channel 4 tonight, “Indian Summer School” at the Doon School in India, where five English boys on track for complete failure are sent there for attempts to turn them around. The Head Master is English and stated that back in UK in his last job he found that 80% of school behavior problems were iPhone related. Needless to say the school bans iPhones and turns out some of the highest achievers in business in the world.

      2. Opher, I’m afraid to say that Corbyn has never been to Israel – at least under a Labour Party capacity.
        He had first been invited to do so in May 2016 by Israeli diplomat Mark Rgev, but turned down that offer.
        He was invited again by Isaac Herzog to visit Israel’s Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum back in September 2016, but also turned that offer down and sent deputy Tom Watson instead. He had in fact failed to respond to Herzog’s letter for some weeks.
        On his third invitation in March 2017, again to visit Yad Vashem, he claimed to be too busy and sent general secretary Iain McNicol instead.
        Corbyn continues to resist pleas from senior Mp’s and to visit Israel in an attempt to rid accusations of anti-Semitism in the party and defends his controversial attendance at radical left-wing Jewdas group which attracted provocation with Jewish leaders, anti-Semitism campaigners and Labour Mps.

        It should be noted that Corbyn’s two peace prizes were nothing to do with Ireland.
        The 2013 prize was for warning parliament of the consequence of invading Iraq, bombing Libya and Syria and selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, all done in 2003.
        Perhaps half the rational thinking world should also have received such a prize.
        The 2018 peace prize award was for work with the campaign for nuclear disarmament and Stop the War campaign.

        Corbyn had been a cheerleader for the Republicans. Had he been seriously interested in any peace process he would not have been standing on platforms at “Troops Out” rallies. The only peace these people wanted was on IRA terms, a win. He went on to oppose the Anglo-Irish agreement and openly derided and jeered John Hulme and the SDLP. In 1998 John O’Donnell also opposed the peace process, telling An Phoblacht that “An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years. We want peace, but the settlement must be just and the settlement must be for an agreed and united Ireland.”
        Back in 1983, Corbyn, in fact had been a member of the board of ‘Labour Briefing’, a fringe magazine for diehard leftists who unequivocally supported the IRA’s bombing campaign. Corbyn organised the mailing list and was a regular speaker at events.
        In December 1984, the magazine“reaffirmed its support for, and solidarity with, the Irish republican movement” noting that its “overwhelming priority as active members of the British labour movement is to fight for and secure an unconditional British withdrawal”. Only “an unconditional British withdrawal, including the disarming of the RUC and UDR, will allow for peace in Ireland. Labour Briefing stands for peace, but we are not pacifists”. Moreover, “It certainly appears to be the case that the British only sit up and take notice when they are bombed into it”. That being so, discussions with the SDLP and the Irish government were, at best, a distraction. Only Sinn Fein and the IRA spoke for Ireland. Labour Briefing explicitly opposed the SDLP, preferring instead to endorse the republican terrorist campaign.

        He has been a social network poster on Palestine Live, a forum dedicated to distribution of anti-Israel vitriol from it’s inception in August 2013 until his leadership election. Corbyn had to stop posting in attempts by party HQ to clean up his image. The site had been designed by his friend, the Labour activist Elleanne Green. Corbyn had been posting using language such as “Zios”, shorthand for Zionists and an anti-Semitic term of abuse. His son Seb, who works as a senior aid to John McDonnell was also an online member along with hard-left MP’s Chris Williamson and Clive Lewis. Jackie Walker, vice-chair of Momentum had asked Green how safe the online group was and was told “Very. No one is allowed in who is not trusted. I am very, very careful and it is a secret group.” Today four years on it is no longer a secret and has been exposed as the centre point of anti-Semitism in Corbyn’s Labour party. The group was exposed by campaigner and blogger David Collier who had infiltrated and discovered Corbyn had been an active member involved in daily exchanges of anti-Semitic material.

        That’s just some stuff that I can remember without having to go looking too far for it.

      3. My understanding is that he has never been to Israel and in fact has declined 2 invitations to visit the Holocaust Museum there, stating that he was too busy. If Jezza was the great peacemaker you trumpet, don’t you think he should have taken advantage of an invitation to visit one side in a conflict? How well do you know the IRA? On what basis do you think we should accept your version in preference to theirs. What motive have they to lie about Corbyn? Is it another Tory conspiracy?

      4. Bede – to be honest I do not really care too much about the IRA. They are hopefully in the past. Neither do I care too much about Hamas. Though I believe Corbyn has been fine in both cases. The important issues are what is going to happen to the country. Are we going to go blindly down this destructive road of decimating our public services and giving all the wealth to the elite or are we going to start addressing the problems and inequality? Those are the real issues.
        The Tories have always been ideologically opposed to good public services and have, true to form, been hammering them to the detriment of ordinary people. The Tories represent the top 10% at most and their policies reflect that. I want the bastards out and replaced by a more caring, fair and compassionate government. Corbyn is the man to do that.

  9. Opher, now I see why my post on Christine Shawcross had been removed without so much as a word. It was the truth featuring her own words.

  10. You accuse me of supporting the Prime Minister and her Conservative Government, did I say I was supporting her, I think you will find I said she was a disappointment to me. I know who I would like to see as Prime Minister. You mention a previous very strong determined Prime Minister, that the IRA tried to Assassinate and Corbyn invited the IRA political wing Sinn Fein over weeks after the attempt to Assassinate the then Prime Minister. Mrs Thatcher, what a pity there is not another woman that could take her place, or a man come to that, well maybe there is one.

    1. There is only a choice of two Anna. If you don’t support one you are supporting the other. What May and her right-wing rabble are doing to the country is frightening. Sorry but I don’t want everything privatised for the benefit of her rich chums. I don’t want tax cuts for the rich and austerity for the poor. I don’t want the public services decimated and in crisis out of some ideological stupidity.
      The IRA thing is in the past and hopefully won’t return – unless May and Davies manage to resurrect it out of their own incompetence.
      You know what I think of Thatcher and her divisive, callous policies – ding dong the witch is dead!! Hurray!!
      A man for PM?? So who would your choice be?

  11. Any fool can draw up a wish list of promises in order to “buy” votes. A responsible government has to operate within the confines of what is practically realisable. Borrowing billions of pounds to win support is no firm basis for a prosperous future.

    1. So you think that political manifestos are a waste of time?
      The Labour manifesto was not a wish list. It was a set of policies that set the tone of what they intended to do and it was the best manifesto I think I have ever seen.
      It set out how it would put right the disasters that this Tory monstrosity of a government is creating.
      It addressed, among other things:
      The creeping privatisation
      The crisis in education
      The crisis in the NHS
      The crisis in the police
      The crisis in the Crown Prosecution
      The crisis in Mental Health
      The crisis in Social Care
      The gig economy
      The crisis in Local Authorities
      The growing inequality

      Or are you happy with a rising crime rate, kids being stabbed to death, teachers and nurses leaving in droves, an economy staggering along behind the rest of the EU, tax cuts for the rich, tax cuts for corporations, the mentally ill not receiving treatment and clogging up prisons, court cases collapsing because the Crown Prosecution are inept…………………………..

      1. What was any different between this latest manifesto and any previous? It read as just the same old list of promises and means virtually nothing – great intentions that will never meet expectations.
        Each quarter last year and first quarter this year have all seen positive economic growth with gross fixed capital formation and this despite a slight increase of imports of goods and services. That in itself tells you something. Service industries saw continued growth as expected. Overall UK economy has expanded by 1.4% since 2012, with GDP growth in 2017 rising by 1.8% and 1.9% in 2016. The slow start as indicated in 2012 was due to picking up the pieces from 2010 following Labour’s disastrous financial innings.

        Perhaps a closer analysis on rising crime rates would indicate where problems arrive from and the reasons for clogging up of prisons.
        There’s been more anti-knife crime youth initiatives put into fruition than you’ve had hot dinners. The problem has gone long past blaming the government. It’s a cultural issue inherent within a particular segment of society. We operate a “three strikes and your’re out” policy, introduced by some bloody stupid and downright naive liberal neo-socialists types. The Police have their hands tied and can do no more than remove the knife wielding thug from the street and issuing warnings until occasion #3. We have some wholly inadequate magistrates handing down trivial punishments.
        Yeah, let’s blame the CPS for all the collapsing trials. It wouldn’t have anything to do with wooly-headed jury members, would it?

      2. You want to read it properly. It is the antidote to this disease called Toryism that is devastating our country.
        Also take a look at the growth rates for EU countries – we’re chugging along at the bottom.
        Yes we need some stringent punishments for those with knives.
        The collapse of trials was not because of juries but the inept Crown Prosecution not doing their job. The cuts have made their task impossible.

      3. Opher, I’ve read most of it, but not every single detail in the small print. I actually have no complaints about it at all. I got the general picture but can’t see what there is to get too excited about – it’s a bulk standard party political broadcast full of golden promises, hot air and bluster. Come off it, we weren’t all born last week.

        I’m not so sure that we are in fact bottom of anything. Firstly, because we don’t use the Euro, so we aren’t included in many reports.
        We are doing better than Holland and Italy, about the same as France, our shortfalls have not been as bad as Germany’s and it’s only Spain who are currently doing better than us by any margin.

        What’s your worry with collapse of trials all about? There are hundreds of technical reasons for that. You can’t blame the CPS for every shortcoming. Many trials collapse due to witness intimidation.

      4. Jibreel – no I do not agree. To start with it is a statement of intent that is totally different to that of the Tories.
        The thrust is to nationalise, finance public services, Do away with austerity, invest in infrastructure, stimulate the economy, value education and bring in a modest progressive tax.
        Quite a contrast to continuing austerity, running down public services, taxing pensioners, hitting those on social services, creeping privatisation of NHS and schools, stupid expensive free schools and grammar schools and more tax cuts for the rich.

      5. The only reason Diane Abbott is in her position is due to Corbyn’s guilt trip and his penchant for “pity sex”. Her selection cannot possibly have been calculated based on her intellectual capacity. Just one cursory listen to any of her performances on BBC One’s “This Week”, would be sufficient confirmation. The look on presenter Andrew Neil’s face and the smirk on couch potato Michael Portillo’s said it all. Her performance under question fire from Neil over her IRA support was a disaster and good reason to permanently remove her as a fixture on the programme.

        Personally, I enjoy listening to what Rees-Mogg has to say. He really has got his act together and has a brilliant mind.
        I think I’d have Angela Leadsom as my leader in the HoC (if I needed one) over Valerie Vaz anyday. Vaz is just another of these fake Labour people that have really nothing to do with Labour. Grammar school. University Science degree, qualified as a lawyer, own firm of solicitors, district county judge in Oxford and Midlands, a councillor in Ealing, Treasury solicitors and Ministry of Justice. She’d stand anywhere to try and get elected and failed in Twickenham and West Bromwich before eventual success in the upper echelons of Walsall South.

        New York had to spend billions of dollars cleaning itself up before it could even begin to tackle crime. It was a massive re-structure involving hundreds of agencies and hundreds of thousands of people.
        Glasgow has nothing close to the levels of youth gang crime of London. There are hardly any Afro-Caribbean people living there, therefore, none of these problems.
        Youth culture emulates the gangster lifestyle, Tupac etc and aspires to the appeal. The youtube videos are full of this. Social media is the power tool behind it.
        Watch “When Kids Kill: Gang Wars” as broadcast recently on Channel 5.

      6. Rees-Mogg is a pompous fool.
        Yes we need to get a joined up set of actions to counter the cocaine market and gangs in London. It’s going to take a lot of money and a concerted effort involving police, social services, schools, parents, youth services and politicians. All the cuts have exacerbated the problem.

    2. I would agree with that if it was true. In practice borrowing when money is incredibly cheap in order to stimulate the economy and provide infrastructure and needed services – to invest for the future – which will pay for itself many times over – is sound common sense.
      If this stupid government had only abandoned its failed austerity programme and invested in the economy we would not be chugging along at the bottom.

  12. I don’t have to support either of those. The IRA thing as you put it is not in the past, there can be no past these people are still Terrorists, that corbyn wines and dines. In their minds they may convince those that want to be convinced that the IRA are now “Peace Makers”, there are those like Adams where the hatred for Great Britain goes very deep. It’s so sickening to see those that now accept people who once ordered and butchered people, suddenly they become “Peacemakers” “Heroes”. You find it acceptable that Sinn Fein ordered the Assassination of our then Prime Minister, whether you or I approved of the PM is not important. Terrorists came onto Foreign soil to Assassinate a Prime Minister. The World has had enough to say about the Russians.

    1. I don’t ever support violence, Anna, and I don’t think Corbyn does either.
      There are only two options – either Labour or Tory. That is no choice for me. The Tories have made a right mess of things. We are paying for the stupidities of their rich friends while those same idiots are still wallowing in luxury. If the Tories get in again then it’s goodbye to the NHS, Education and Law and Order. They are running everything into the ground – same as Thatcher did before.

      1. I did not suggest that you did support violence Opher. If Corbyn as you claim does not support Violence, then he is a very stupid stubborn man by attending and speaking at Rallies were the Flags and people there support Hezbollah, which is a Terrorist Group you cannot deny that. Why does Corbyn still support the IRA and he does, read an interview in the Telegraph today where an IRA Murderer released by that stupid agreement Blair brought in all IRA Prisoners Released. This Gunman states he does not regret any of the murders he committed, those people he murdered meant nothing, these are the IRA Terrorist Group Corbyn defends to this very day. Why does he do nothing about the Anti Semetic people in his party, including himself. Attending that disgusting Jewish group the other evening, they want an end to Israel and the death of all Jews, ridiculous. Corbyn has to be a fool and who could vote for a fool. Labour if they got in, and God help us all if they did, it will be disastrous. They will “spend spend spend” as they always do. Corbyn and his cohort McDonnell will let the Extreme Far Left run riot one can’t even begin to imagine how dreadful it will all be. Then the choice has to be “better the devil you know”. I love the Country of my Birth far too much to hand it over to a man who clearly has some very dangerous issues. Labour is not just “the looney party” as they are called, they would destroy this Country in a relatively short time.

      2. So Anna – you would allow this bunch of right-wing idiots to continue giving everything to the rich and robbing us blind? You would support the increasing privatisation and the energy companies robbing us to give to their rich dividend holders, and the NHS being run into the ground, and increased crime on the streets because police numbers have been so drastically cut, and schools being run as factory fodder with teachers bailing out?
        You like the economy bouncing along at the bottom with all the rest of the EU bounding ahead?
        Because that is what it means.

  13. Sorry Opher don’t quite know what happened there. As I was trying to say please don’t talk to me as though I were a fool, or a pupil in one of your classes – you are no longer the teacher, I don’t like those bullying tactics. As for crime, crime rise in London well you can blame Khan for that. He stopped the “stop and search” always the cry of Racist, lets be honest who committed the majority of the crimes. Who is doing all the shootings and stabbings going on. If Theresa May is still there, and I doubt she will be, you are saying I have a choice of only her party or Corbyn’s. Do you honestly think for one moment I would vote for an anti semitic, someone who admires and stands by Terrorists ie the IRA who murdered British Troops, a man that stands by Hezbollah. Well what’s your answers when the next Terrorist attack hits London. What’s your excuse for the coppers not doing anything as far back as 2001 re the muslim men kidnapping and raping white little girls and using them as sex slaves, not the cuts but the fact that the police wouldn’t touch these muslims because they knew and were told the racist card would be played, the police are told to go easy on these muslims and on ANTIFA. I spend time in the Hospital, the NHS shortages, no. I knew someone who spent their working life in an NHS hospital and that person would boast how they themselves would waste NHS money.

    You say there is only a choice of two parties to vote for, well you are wrong there. I don’t know who you are trying to convince about Corbyn those that oppose your views or yourself. The extreme Far Left are showing such desperation, they are doing all they can to deselect those Labour MPs who do not approve of Corbyn and his cohort McDonnell. Momentum and their thugs are bullying and threatening MPs, making the female MPs cry, and thats really a clever thing to do isn’t it?

    1. That’s all in your head Anna. I’m not talking to you as if you are a fool or one of my students. I’m speaking my mind – that is all. How on earth can that be bullying? You take a far more emotional and rude tone of voice than I ever do.
      The rise in crime is not just in London Anna. It is the result of repeated government cuts and loss of huge numbers of police – nothing to do with Khan. That’s just another of your pet hates – because he’s a Muslim.
      You go over the same ground time and time again. The Muslim men who were using the young girls are being rightly locked up. They should have been a long time ago. The police should have acted and didn’t because of fear of being accused of racism. I agree with you – that was wrong.
      I did not say there were only two parties. I said there were only two possible governments.
      Politics is nasty Anna. I don’t like any of it. But cast your mind back to the death threats and backstabbing that went on in the Tory leadership election. Because that was ten times worse. The Tories are just much better at hiding up their nastiness. Partially because they control the media.
      On my blog I put forward my views. Heavens I’ve read some of the far-right propaganda you put out on your blog. You accessed stuff from extreme right groups that was total exaggeration.

  14. Unfortunately Opher is afflicted by the current Labour mantra – throw money at it and it will disappear. There is no direct correlation between monetary provision and crime. More police officers will not equate to fewer crimes. The causation of crime is more complex than that and involves cultural issues, social media and alienation. In any event, can you imagine crime reducing under the stewardship of Diane Abbott as Home Secretary? She is clearly incompetent and an embarrassment to her Shadow Cabinet’s credibility. You should be voting Tory, Opher, since you must be in the top 10% you refer to.

    1. Bede – Crime has been on the increase year after year – up to when the Tories made swingeing cuts and the level of policing declined. Of course it needs more money. You can’t go making draconian cuts to all these services year after year and expect them to perform at the same standard. That is daft.
      I know from managing a school how money makes a huge difference to provision. You can supply adequate, quality staff, smaller class sizes, more support staff, better equipment – you know – like the Tories have in their public schools.
      Bede – when I was working I was nowhere near the top ten percent. As a pensioner I have to cut my cloth.
      Labour have always supported the public services and the Tories have always run them down. If the Tories were in for long enough we wouldn’t have any public services at all. If they had their way they’d leave the ordinary folk to sink or swim.
      You obviously don’t like Diane Abbot but I can’t see anyone being worse than the buffoon that is Boris or the idiot that is David Davis or the pompous nincompoop that is Reese-Mogg. Once you start on personalities I could name a dozen hapless Tories – Hunt, Fox and Ledsome come straight to mind.

      1. Heavens Anna – I can’t remember. I think I left a comment on your site that this was coming from a far-right propaganda machine. You’ve done a few. One was these girls talking about rape in Germany. That was a Nazi Nationalist group. One was that one from the Tommy Robinson – a British Movement NeoNazi.

        They are portraying things that feed on people’s fears and exaggerate what is going on.

        Sent from Outlook


      2. “Heavens”….glad to see you accept the existence of Heaven (Joke!). If it wasn’t for these people publishing these stories which by your own admission have a semblance of truth (albeit one could argue exaggerated at times) the fact remains the element of TRUTH are simply not reported by the mainstream media, that includes the so called right leaning papers such as the Mail, Express and Telegraph.

        The grooming gangs are a prime example of what Robinson et-al have been reporting for years, only to branded bigoted/racist/Islamophobes (whatever that is, a phobia is an irrational fear) and most tellingly a liar.

        And you wonder why concerned people, such as myself, seek out some truth from people and outlets that not so long ago I would have found undesirable too. Opher, watch the video from 2011 and tell me what exactly way lying about re the grooming gangs (and note the sneering delusional denials by Paxman).

      3. Anna – I watched that video clip. I have heard him speak many times before. The EDL are just like the other Fascist groups before them – the National Front, British Movement and Moseley’s fascist blackshirts. They use the same fears and hatred to rouse people.
        Moseley did it using the Jews as the scapegoats. His speeches were just as inflammatory. Seemingly the Jews were controlling the economy and taking over the country.
        I do not like Islam as a religion (not keen on any religions but Islam is one of the most intolerant)
        I do not like the Koran. I think it is typical of attitudes from the 8th Century and some of those have no place in the modern world. We’ve moved on in thirteen hundred years.
        I do not like burqas or niqabs. I consider them misogynistic.
        I do not like sharia law. We have British law and it is far superior.
        I do not like mosques springing up all over the place indoctrinating people or their madrasas. I think they are brainwashing children.
        I do not like the way a minority of Muslim men have groomed vulnerable young girls and I think the authorities who did not provide the care and protection to those girls should be lambasted.
        But I do not like fascists. What they do is exaggerate the problems and concerns, generate fear and stoke up hatred. That is precisely what he was doing. He took the grains of truth and blew them up out of proportion and gave credence to them. He encourages the bootboys out on the streets paki bashing, intimidating and threatening.
        I do not want those thugs strutting down my streets.
        We need to keep things in proportion. Most Muslims are law-abiding British people who do not abuse girls or demand sharia law. They are happy with British law – unless we alienate them.
        It is the militant young people who have been inflamed by attacks on Muslim countries and radicalised who then demand sharia law and confrontation. But with only 4.4% of the population they are a thousand miles away from achieving that. They exist in pockets in many cities and they need countering.
        What we have to do is not alienate the bulk of the Muslims in Britain, not carry out illegal wars against Muslim countries, police mosques and madrasas to put a stop to indoctrination, not have segregated religious schools, and integrate the Muslims into British culture.
        Bernard is an old friend of mine from college days. He comes from a Northern city and converted to Islam and married a Muslim girl. You should talk to him about the reality of Muslims in Britain. Nobody knows more.
        Back in my youth I had Muslim friends who were fully integrated into Western culture. They weren’t spouting the Koran or wearing medieval costume. Something has gone wrong. In my view we have had too much immigration too quickly and we haven’t taken the steps to integrate. We have too many imams from backward places who are preaching a radical version of Islam. The wars have radicalised people and we have not countered it.
        But turning to the exaggerations of fascism is not the answer.

  15. It’s not a question of liking or disliking Diane Abbott. It’s a question of her competence and suitability to hold a senior Cabinet post. Her performances have shown she is not. There are aspects of her personality I don’t like eg. her expressions of racism (“white men like to divide and rule”); her failure to observe Labour party policy on selective education and her trite response to her previous support of the IRA by comparing her change of opinion to a change of hair-style. Those are just examples. Statistically crime was much lower 40 years ago when proportionately we had far fewer police officers so clearly there are other variables involved. Violent crime in London has increased but I can’t see how a greater police presence on the streets would stop that unless you had a ruthless stop and search policy. The actions of the moped gangs demonstrate that the police are ineffective against determined young men no matter how many officers there are and how many vehicles they have. How do you stop a gang member winning his colours by travelling randomly through a rival’s patch and shooting or knifing someone? Are you going to place a police officer every 100 metres? CCTV is limited because they wear hoodies. Referring to a point made by Anna Cottage earlier about the extent of grooming, it is far more common than you suggest and I am unaware of it being uncovered in any local authority which is controlled by a Conservative Council. Perhaps you could name me one. It does involve Labour. Sarah Champion was forced to resign her post after writing an article about it. A Labour MP described Sarah Champion’s article as incendiary. That’s the same Naz Shah who re-tweeted that the abused victims in Rotherham should shut their mouths for the sake of diversity. This is Corbyn’s Labour.

    1. So you think that Davis, Boris, Hunt, IDS, Fox, May, Ledsom, Rees-Mogg and the rest of the mob are competent?
      Crime has been falling year on year for decades until the Tories fucked it up. I am not an expert on dealing with crime but I know it has been managed in New York and Scotland.
      I am sure there is a lot of grooming. Surely you are not suggesting it is a Labour problem? More an inner city I would have thought. Maybe related to areas of high deprivation and high immigrant numbers.

  16. I’m not a fan of Boris Johnson but certainly he has ability. He had a good record as London Mayor. His demeanour sometimes disguises his obvious intellect and capability. I would not want to see him as Prime Minister but he has a role to play and he is well-liked generally by the public if not by Corbyn-supporters.

    1. We really want someone in that position who fires from the hip, puts his foot in his mouth, makes things up as he goes along, is rude, lies and has a persona of a bumbling clown?

  17. Halifax is not an area of high deprivation or an inner-city area yet a group of around 20 groomers have been jailed in the past year. I wouldn’t think Oxford is an area of high deprivation either. One of the problems with the grooming cases was the failure of the local council to act allegedly for political reasons – political correctness and diversity. I have analyses the data but it strikes from an anecdotal evidential viewpoint me that those councils responsible were in the main, if not all, Labour-controlled councils. You have chosen to live in an area which is predominately white British so don’t see the problem. I am sure that so far only the tip of this problem has been uncovered.

      1. Yes, usually vulnerable girls. Sikh girls also particularly in Telford but also in Dewsbury. The victims are often in the care of the local authority and that’s the focal point where local authorities fall down on their duty of care. Rochdale & Rotherham are the best-known examples. Councillors (Labour usually), social workers and police regarded the abuse as a “life-style” choice by the victims. There is also the factor of political correctness which rose up under Blair. People are afraid to speak out or act for fear of being accused of racism. If someone like Sarah Champion grasps the nettle then she is attacked by MPs like Naz Shah, a confirmed anti-Israel commentator. It’s not just a religious issue. In general daughters from Islamic homes are strictly supervised. They are not allowed out of the house unaccompanied by a family member. An inevitable consequence of that culture is that young Muslim men don’t have the opportunity of socialising with girls from their peer group unless under supervision so they are forced to search elsewhere. What I say applies only to a very small minority of Muslim men but the number of abused victims is significant (1000s). Most Muslim men do not sexually abuse young women but they get tarnished with the same brush as the perpetrators because of their shared religion and culture. Blair was also responsible for the influx of Albanian gangsters into London after he bombed Belgrade. They control, together with other East European gangsters, much of the drug trade in London. The Albanians also are into people trafficking; forced prostitution; import of guns and extreme acts of violence. See the words of David Lammy, the Tottenham MP, who attributes the rise in London’s violent gang crime to the Eastern Europeans in large part.

      2. Bede – hopefully they have all woken up to it and are putting a stop to it. When repressed men find temptation some succumb. The people involved in not following up the problems need dealing with severely.

      3. Unfortunately yes and too many too often. You can’t have failed to miss all the media exposure surrounding this problem surely. There’s been several reporting documentaries.

      4. Why are you pretending that this problem does not exist, you make yourself look foolish. There are Muslim Men in areas all over this Country going back to 2000, that kidnap/Rape/use as sexual slaves/sell for other men to rapoe. White Girls, some have been found to be as young as 11 years of age. Very little has been done to stop them, it is going on now. It took a Social Worker to prove the truth, and she was in grave danger for doing so. How insulting that you put a question mark after your sentence, even knowing from me time and time again that this is going on, seeing it in the papers on the news, the BBC left wing news just about covered it.

      5. Anna – I certainly do not deny there has been a lot of abuse of young girls. As Bernard, who is a Muslim, says – it is a small number of Muslim men who have taken advantage of them. They are basically a vulnerable group of young girls of the type that you usually castigate. You can’t go calling them sluts one minute and then portraying them as poor victims the next. As Bernard points out – the Muslim men do not see girls behaving in that way. Their women are usually locked out of sight and heavily chaperoned. The local authorities and police have turned a blind eye to it. I think they looked at the type of girls involved and said it was their choice. I think that, despite the way the girls were behaving, the police and authorities should have done a lot more. They were too young and vulnerable. I do not deny it has been going on and I do not deny that racism played its part. But I bet you that there are lots of white men who are abusing the same type of girls too. It was the sort of thing Cyril Smith and Jimmy Saville were doing.

  18. The Tory politicians you mention are reasonably competent. On what basis do you say they are not? May is definitely more competent than Corbyn. She destroys him on a regular basis in Prime Minister’s Questions debates. Maybe you don’t watch them. Did you watch Diane Abbott interviewed about police numbers on LBC and about her support of the IRA by Andrew Marr? I watched her in another interview concerning the effects of some report. She said she had read the report but it became increasingly obvious to the interviewer and to me that she had not. Instead of honestly admitting that she had not read it or given it a cursory glance. she persisted in affirming that she had read it. When her incompetence is laid bare in interviews, she makes excuses like it’s the type 2 diabetes from which she suffers. Well, if she can’t control the effects of diabetes like May does successfully with type 1 diabetes then she should not accept the office of an important government job. It’s as simple as that.

    1. Well I don’t think any of them are competent, including May. They are arrogant though and extremely ideological. Boris particularly is a complete loose cannon who presents a laughable figure to foreigners.

      1. But isn’t it wholly refreshing to have someone with a generous personality, wit and unbounded intelligence to be representing the country, rather than some smug and door warmonger? Boris is extremely popular with our distant cousins abroad.
        David Miliband – ?, nothing more than a silly wee boy, Margaret Beckett – good grief!, Jack Straw -?!
        Seriously, each and every one of them a imbecilic numpty. With Jack Straw and his incredibly stupid decisions to release some very dangerous people back loose into society on the back of some half-baked human rights missive.
        Robin Cook was the last bastion of any senior Labour Party member with any modicum of intelligence.

      2. Not what I’ve heard about our European friends view of Boris. They laugh at him and think he’s a clown. There’s a reason for that – he is.

      3. I said distant, not those next door. Far away places, you know, where the money is!
        Actually, they laugh when he laughs – he gets their undivided attention. Make no mistake about that.

    1. Opher, did you learn any history at school? What about Alexander the Great’ the Romans; Saladin; the Persians; the Ottoman Empire; the Mongols; the Soviets; the 1st Emperor of China; the Mughals; the colonisers – Spain; Portugal, Great Britain; Belgians; French etc.? They didn’t change borders or the lives of people with bits of paper. Religious belief has been the main benefactor of the spread of paper but words were ancillary to military action.

      1. And the communist manifesto?
        The Magna Carta?
        The Declaration of Independence?
        Papal edicts on Crusades?
        The Koran?
        The Bible?
        Need I go on?

      2. None of which were rummaged up in fifteen minutes.
        The communist manifesto was written and distributed after communism took control – not before. It was never used as a tool of aspiration.
        The Magna Carta was drawn up after a long period of conflict, so I’ll give you that one, even though I had mentioned it last post.
        The Dec of Ind – I’ll give you that, too, albeit’s copied from the Magna Carta.
        Papal edicts – nope, religious tosh
        The Koran – nope, religious tosh
        The Bible – nope, religious tosh
        That Labour manifesto has all the gravitas of last year’s calendar.
        It’s chip paper.

  19. What’s the communist manifesto? Do you mean Das Kapital? Communism has never been implemented anywhere. Bogus versions purporting to be communist have been but in essence they are authoritarian regimes controlled by a despot or clique. North Korea is a good example. Former supposedly communist states like Russia and China have introduced capitalism but prior to that they were authoritarian regimes controlled by a despot or clique.. Both the Chinese and Russian systems of government were a direct result of military action not some piece of paper. The Magna Carta was simply a document orchestrated by the English barons to limit the power of the Crown. Ordinary people didn’t benefit from it. They were still essentially without rights. The Civil War had a more lasting effect since it got rid of the concept of divine rule by the Crown & confirmed the ascendancy of a Parliament. That was the result of military action. The Declaration of Independence would have been worthless without the colonists winning the military action against the Georgian dynasty. How did the Crusades change history? The Crusades were just a series of wars fought out by two rival factions. Much the same is still going on now in the same region. The religious texts were available only to a small number of people. Most people were unable to read or write. Religious ideas were spread by spoken word not by written words on paper, parchment etc. Those ideas were also spread by conquest. Conquered people were often compelled to adopt the religious ideas of their conquerors or did so to be accepted into the new society. Thus Islam, for example, which originated in what is now Saudi Arabia was spread across North Africa, parts of Europe and as far as China by invading armies like the Berbers, Persians and Mughals and Ottomans. They didn’t hand out bits of paper. They handed out death to any opposition.

    1. Wow!! Bede!! I think you are wrong. Most things start with a bit of paper!! Here’s the link to the Communist manifesto. While it is true that true communism has not yet existed it cannot be said that this piece of paper hasn’t been responsible for huge changes in the world – even if they were not those envisaged.
      I do not know how you can say that the words written on all these documents haven’t changed the world. It is true that a lot of them led to violence and war but the words preceded the war.

      1. Well, I think that is a wrong conclusion. Most wars have been fought by men who could not read or write and for reasons unconnected with any theory other than they thought there was something to be gained like wealth, land etc. from fighting a war . Mass communication by written words is relatively modern. Paper itself is relatively modern.

      2. Speeches, strategy, religion, politics and oratory have all led people into war and violence. Words and ideas are powerful beyond all weapons.

      3. You shift your ground of argument. You started with “words written on paper” then enlarged it to speeches etc. Of course, people were exhorted to fight by their leaders as far as back as conflict began but not by “words on paper” which are relatively recent as is literacy amongst the fighting men and women.

  20. Opher, first of all I take issue with you that these are the type of girls that you claim I usually castigate by calling them “sluts one minute” and then I make them out to be victims the next. Get it straight not once did I suggest that these young girls some as young as 11 years of age were anything like those found on the streets of any Town or City Friday to Sunday nights, drunk and out of control. I have never claimed that all girls or women were like that when they went out, from what you are twisting from one of my blogs to suit your purposes. I have absolutely no idea where these young girls these Muslim men are raping come from, possibly broken homes. How do you know how they were behaving unless you spoke to them or Bernard. What a muslim man looks at a 11 year girl and thinks “oh well its her choice whether I rape her or not”. But I am not saying ALL or MOST Muslim men are guilty of this, doesn’t change the fact it’s a huge cultural issue that many in the UK want to ignore. Not just the police and local authorities but the wider population too. Thankfully some are now waking up!

    For a start it is NOT a small amount of muslim men doing these atrocious acts. Was that same small group of men are going from Town to Town, City to City? Yes we all know that muslim men do not see their women dressed as western women, what do you think the women in Germany/Holland/Belgium/France etc have been raising for so long. I suppose the same little group of Muslims went to Europe and raped the women there did they? How many do you define as a “small number” exactly? You mentioned white peadophiles such as Jimmy Saville and Cyril Smith. Once again (intentionally or otherwise) you miss the point. The White’s you refer to aren’t abusing children in gangs, they aren’t doing it because their holy book teaches them that once a girl starts her period you can take her as a wife. They aren’t doing it because their religion tells them that they can do such things to non-believers. Surely you can see the clear difference between these Muslim grooming/rape gangs and the white abusers you refer to. Again I am NOT tarnishing ALL Muslims, but it’s not an insignificant “small number” either.

    1. Well actually they are those girls you see around the centre of town. They are the ones you’ve been scathing of. They have been coming from deprived backgrounds and a lot from care-homes. They were targeted because of that.
      The people doing the grooming seem to be mainly Muslim men. They are relatively small numbers. The majority of Muslims do not do these kind of things.
      There is a problem when people from a highly repressed culture come into contact with a much more liberal one.
      The police have largely ignored it because they thought the girls were asking for and also that they didn’t want to be accused of racism. It should not have gone on and social services, the police and care homes all have something to answer for.
      These grooming gangs are being hunted down and prosecuted. There has been a raising of awareness. These men need locking up.

      1. Sikh girls have been targeted also. Their vulnerability is derived from their fear that the prospective abuser will inform their parents that they have behaved inappropriately with a boy, even if that is untrue. What should be noted is that although a minority of Muslim men have carried out these abuses, the existence of them has generally been known to the Muslim community and ignored or treated with indifference. The key issue for me is many of the abuse girls were in the care of social services so clearly there were failures in the duty of care owed to these girls.

    1. They have also been failed by the local politicians (Labour in the main so far as I can see) who chose to ignore the problem possibly “for the sake of diversity”, to borrow a phrase from a Labour MP. I agree with Anna Cottage that the number of abusers is significant in relation to the size of the community they come from. We are talking, maybe, an average of 20-30 from each town so far. An aggravating feature is that the abuse is organised not randomly opportunistic. It has nothing to do with religion in my view. There is nothing in the Qu’ran which would justify this abuse, in fact the opposite. Under Islam sex outside marriage is not allowed let alone sex under compulsion or with a child. It’s based purely on lust and targeted at those girls who are most available and most vulnerable.

  21. Mr Nalson I so agree with you that these young girls have been let down so badly by Social Services. Even when that one Social Worker tried to have it all known she was ignored she was stopped. Yes, there have been cases of Sikh girls, and for them it was very difficult to report, they could not. The fact is Local Authorities that Social Services I assume come under have not done a thing, the Police did nothing, they do nothing for fear of upsetting the Muslims. I just do not understand why this is allowed to go on, the Police know where it is all happening, in major Cities/Towns. Rotherham was not a one off. I have to say that because these girls are vulnerable or even on the streets that does not mean that people should assume “well thats what happens to girls like that”. It shouldn’t happen to any girl/woman. Just as the Raping of Women in Europe by illegal Immigrants goes on, and what is done – well nothing of course.

  22. One of the Rotherham victims has just published a book (“Just a child” by Sammy Woodhouse). It details her abuse from the age of 14 including trafficking, rapes & pregnancies. It also condemns the inaction of the various authorities who knew about her ordeal and did little or nothing.

    1. So much so, for those that say these Rapes/trafficking/pregnancies did not go on, that muslim gangs of men did not do this. Those that bury their heads, bury their heads because they don’t like admitting the truth. There is no one, absolutely no one in this Country that has not heard of these gangs of muslim men All around this Country of ours that are kidnapping/raping/trafficking these young girls, some aged 7 years of age. My own decent, quiet, respectable little seaside Town had a recent case of “Trafficking”. The Truth is there, now the book is there to read. The only problem is the Police are barely doing anything, along with social services, even the Government and why for fear of being called Racist. This is not about racism, this is about the kidnapping/raping/trafficking of young girls, by gangs of muslim men.

      1. I don’t think anybody said it wasn’t happening Anna. The fact that the police and social services didn’t deal with it is disgusting. The politicians have lots to answer to as well.

  23. Opher, you must live in a bubble if you haven’t read details of the nationwide sexual abuse and associated cover-ups. There was a well-publicised docu-drama about the Rochdale grooming gang. Yesterday a report was published in which the then leader of the Labour Council lied to cover up the sex abuse scandal by Cyril Smith and his associates on boys in Council care.

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