My beliefs – Religion
I am an antitheist. I believe religion has been created by man. I believe the holy books were written by men. I believe that religion is used by certain people to gain power over others.
Any institution where the leaders are exulted into positions of power I believe is corrupt. Any religion that has leaders dressed in gaudy uniform, with pageantry and elaborate ritual, extravagant buildings and dogma, is setting out to impress and gain power.
I do not believe in heaven, paradise, hell or fifty three virgins. They are manifestly ploys to frighten or control adherents.
I do not believe in any personal god who is interested in human beings, let alone one who created the whole universe just for us. That is egocentric to say the least. Any casual look at cultures around the world shows the worse the conditions the more devout the people. If god responded to prayer the poor would have been elevated long ago. I do not believe in prayer.
As to whether there is a god or not. I do not know. If there is then that force, for me, is more akin to the energy in the atoms than a conscious person.
I think that any literal interpretation of the holy books is dangerous. They were written thousands of years ago and it shows. The Abrahamic tradition (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) originates from a tiny corner of the Middle East and a group of nomadic tribes who roamed around in that region. The writings are full of their creation myths, wisdom, misogyny, power seeking, control and power, cruelty and limited view of the world and religion. Some of the stories are great. Many of them contain beautiful words and phrases that have adorned our culture. There is much to be admired. But even a cursory glance shows the hypocrisy, ambiguity, inconsistency and different authors and views. The god described varies enormously from a caring god of love to a vengeful creature of immense cruelty and vindictiveness. One can select the texts to create a vision of love, peace and forgiveness or select others to justify war, unimaginable cruelty and intolerance. We only have to look at the way they have been deployed (and are being deployed) to justify the hideous torture and burning of witches, pogroms, inquisitions, crusades, jihads, gruesome genocides and murders and pillaging and rape. ISIS are only the latest in a long line.
As an antitheist I would like to see all religion done away with. It is not the cozy Sunday at church or prayer at the synagogue, temple or mosque, the comforting words or helping hand that it purports; all religions are power structures of intolerance, hatred and creators of war and conflict.
As a tolerant person I believe that religion should be a personal choice for consenting adults, and people should have the right to believe in whatever they wish.
Now spirituality, the afterlife, and mysticism – that’s something else.
They tell me Jesus loves me, but I’m a bit worried about the age gap.
My favourite put-down phrase of 2015.
Nice one Andrew.
I remember Southern Ireland and the power of the Church there, it is no longer like that. The Church controlled Ireland the people lived via the Church and its rules. They had too much power in every aspect. Being brought up in Irish/Catholic environment it done damage to me I know that now, nearly everything a Sin – Priests had too much to say. It is difficult to break away from all that, I don’t believe in any religion, I do believe in God, I do believe in another life after this it has to be better, I accept your beliefs – Jonathan is an Antitheist, his choice.
Hi Anna, I’d be interested in your answer to my 2 questions.
1. Had you never been told about God when you were a child, do you think that you would still believe today?
2. What is it exactly that makes you believe?
Difficult questions Andrew.
Hello Andrew. In a way that is hard to answer, perhaps I may have searched for a more powerful being than my Parents to believe in, taking into mind I did all my parents told me to do. Had I not found God then no I would not believe today.
What makes me believe, there were many times as a child when I did not understand what was being done to me (even as an adult), the only place I could go to and feel comfort if you like was to God. I am lapse Catholic, too much hypocrisy drove me away, but my belief in God is strong – not a catholic God he has no religion to me he is just God, he is there for me not all the time of course but I know he is there I know he has helped me I know in this last year he has helped me change he has helped me find people who have changed me. I believe there is a life after this it has to be better than this has been. I know you will not believe me but I have witnessed that there is more. I do not impose what I believe on others, they have their choice I have mine. The pressure from my mother made me fight against what she expected of me, it was hard and done damage to me, she was two faced Church/rosary beads/praying every day yet she would beat me and hate me and to her she could still face God, too much.
So I hope you can make sense of what I have said Andrew, I just believe in God I had no one else and he was there.
An interesting concept – rather like Jung’s collective subconscious. I like that idea. We all share a communal subconscious. We might live on in that!
Religions, god, spirituality and mysticism are all different things. The Church was, and still is, much too powerful – likewise Islam and Hinduism and Judaism.
In Ireland they have lost their power Opher. In Latin America and Africa they are still strong. I hated the way Catholic faith was pushed down my throat. Boys went to Infant/Junior RC school, pressure from my mother ofcourse and David said “better education” – he said that when he sent Jonathan to a prep school run by two nutters husband/wife that’s another story. I do not like the way the Church has too much to say in the RC schools. Maybe when I die it will not be Heaven, as long as it is Green Pastures and the Sea with mountains as well and all my dogs, Trees and flowers and only those I want to see, I can count on one hand that will be fine with me.
Yes – religion is even worse in the Islamic countries. They are indoctrinated from birth.
I hope you get your heaven Anna.
I have personally known a few others that had that sort of similar experience with rather demanding parents, too. I bet it must have gotten to the stage where you could not leave home fast enough.
A girl I knew from home had a father whom used to take her trousers down and spank her across his knee when she was 18 years old! She too was from a Catholic family.
Personally, I think this comfort zone – which I’m fairly sure we all have (in probability) is some kind of inert brain activity, like a self protection mechanism. “God” might be one way of describing it. I don’t believe such strengths are coming from anywhere else but own selves. It’s really just another strand of our decision making process, but a very deep one in the depths of our brain, the parts that perhaps are not being used all the time with day to day repetition and can be called up to help us on occasions of excessive stress etc. A bit like opening the bottom drawer in the spare bedroom that seldom ever gets opened – so to speak.
So do I Opher, I do not want to be “wandering around” forever. Do you believe that when you die there is no more that is the end of you. Surely Opher will not just end and nothing more?
No Anna – my children and books will live on. That’s my only immortality. Though I do not completely rule out some afterlife. There are things I do not understand. My beef is with organised religion and their portrayal of vengeful gods, judgement and heaven and hell. I don’t go for any of that.
No the latter I totally agree with you, I was brought up in the Catholic faith to “Go in fear of God”, I never did I hate that, why should I go in fear of him? I so agree with you on that. Yes of course you will live on in your Children and Grandchildren and all your work and the effect you had on all you taught, your friends and those are are still learning from you that is your legacy and how you will go on.
I believe that we affect people through our lives; we touch them. Our lives go out like ripples and touch other people. I also believe that (Andrew’s favourite) that we create a zeitgeist that affects everyone.
Those ripples go on. I want tsunamis!
Part of our body’s molecular remains go back into the earth, one way or another. We all leave trace particles if that’s any consolation. Personally, if there is anything after at all, I’m looking forward to some Jimi Hendrix gigs!
Oh me too! And Buddy Holly! They’ll be some great gigs. God’ll be hustling the tickets though.
Andrew I was always screaming inside the frustration, the first time when I was small I showed some form of independance my mother put me down and kept me down, I have the scars to prove it. Yes I admit I was scared all my life there has been some sense of that, I married when I was 25 and that was to a man 30 years older than me, I felt I would be safe. 16 years after he died I faced up to the fact it had all been a mistake, he had lied to me, 19 years of marriage a bloody performance I believe, so there you are I had only God to turn to, my God whoever he is, my vision my hope that there is better than what I have always had, I do ask him why he even let me be conceived not wanted not loved my hope is when I go he will let me have what I have always been searching for. There you are a confused lapse catholic, that is what the church does to some.
I really think that you can very safely assume that many people are indeed very selfish and perhaps not too well cut out to hold down a relationship based on equality. Look around, there’s broken relationships everywhere and all of them in all probability were indeed mistakes. So never take it personally. We all make mistakes with people and more often than not, they are big mistakes.
I have a few friends whose marriages are a shambles really, they go through the motions just by force of habit, nothing more. Concerning these men friends of mine, I’ve come to the conclusion that they would have serious difficulty starting again out on their own, if indeed they ever had to.
One women friend has a husband who is violent towards her quite frequently. He doesn’t know she told me this.
I asked her why she stays with him – she actually doesn’t know – it’s force of habit. She’s long since lost any love for him. She lacks the confidence to kick him out or to leave. She’s one of very many with this dilemma.
It’s like a skewered version of Stockholm Syndrome, where people for unknown reasons habitually try to please the very one who is doing the most harm against them. Crazy stuff.
But you can’t be wallowing in this self pity zone, that is not mentally healthy. Perhaps you should look into joining a social club where you’ll be certain to meet like minded and equally wounded – they work very well as support and offer a way out of this negative zone and a new vision. There’s always another door that awaits you.
Andrew, Thank you, I am a loner not a joiner I find that so hard to do. That is why I have to do all I can to go to San Francisco I have never been anywhere on my own and I have to push myself now. I do have two wonderful Sons, grown up still at home, I wish they would have a life for themselves but they keep telling me they are happy where they are, luckily we have a large house so we do not get in each others way. When you have children you cannot leave they have to come first, and where would I have gone. I often wonder if I must be perverted in some way for staying with people who hurt me and did not want me, like your woman friend why do we do that? Men these days prefer to be on their own and a lot of them seem to be so happy that way. We all marry for different reasons, it’s all to do with childhood I guess. We make mistakes Andrew but the trouble is years are wasted. I am finally trying to put the past behind me “forget the past and live for my dreams”
I think the force of habit is strong. There is also a vfear of change and the unknown. It is very powerful. It is often easier to put up with the devil you know. You learn to live with it.
But change is good. It is good to go forward, plan and seek to follow your dreams. Going to SF is very brave and a big step. That is brilliant.
That god ios real for you. He helped you through bad times.
So what’s your argument for not believing in God? You have made no arguments as to why those religions mentioned above are wrong. Rather, you have clumped all the religions into one and made a general statement about them. You asserted certains violence committed in their Holy books etc, but made no argument why your interpretation of those events should be taken as opposed to the orthodox teaching from each religion.
Again, what are the reasons for rejecting the different religions?
IJ, I’d have to correct you here. As a matter of fact Opher has stated on many occasions, and I wholly agree with him, that any of these religions are bad news because they are “organised” by persons who wanted/ want to coerce insurmountable power over masses of people for the satisfaction of their own devices. Money, power, corruption as an example of the Vatican.
Define “Orthodox”. Or do you simply mean the “convenient” parts that show any religion in it’s best light? I can certainly name one for certain that has seemingly been very much misinterpreted by it’s so called followers/converts. There lies the paradox – all things are not equal, therefore, why are some religions passive and require very little of a person in terms of worshiping practices, yet others are so hard boiled as to inflict tyranny and mutilation against any of it’s lapse followers and/or others who believe differently.
That is good enough reason for an evolved species in the year of our lord, 2015, isn’t it?
Some of us are just absolutely not prepared to die on the whims of some simpleton’s rulings and ideas emanating from several thousand years ago and those of somewhat newer ideology.
No thank you.
Hi Andrew, again, all religions are not the same and thus you cannot group them into together. And attempt to refute them with generalising statements. And for this reason, a separate argument must be made if, say, you wanted to reject Christianity or Islam.
I’ll define orthodoxy, at least, in Christianity as that which is follows the skopus of Scripture. Skopus refers to the meta-narrative of Scripture. Thus, when someone attempts to refute orthodox Christianity with the accusation of “picking and choosing” it is actually the accuser who has picked and choose verses as ways to refute Christianity.
It seems that your bases for rejecting religion x or y is that it is the people are hypocritical or there seems to be conflict within religion x or y. Therefore, religion x or y is wrong. Therefore, we should reject them. If this principle was a mean for determining the truth value of religions or ideas or etc then we, humans, have to not hold to a single belief because there will always be someone who holds the same who’s hypocritical or etc.
I think a better argument for rejecting, say, Christianity, since I am a Christian, would be arguing from the problem of evil or determinism.
I was wanting to keep the post general so I merely referred to my arguments. They are far too detailed for a blog. I’ve outlined them in books. But they fall into a number of reasons.
The concept of god is a very human one.
The idea of us being made in god’s image is highly flawed. A glance at a series of poorly put together anatomy demonstrates evolution and not design.
The holy books are full of ambiguities, contradictions and misogynistic views characteristic with the age they were written.
The way the bible was put together. Written from memory generations after the disciples were dead and compiled by Constantine at the symposium where the writings that did not ‘agree’ were burnt as heretical.
The only time god speaks to anyone is in wildernesses, up mountains and in caves. Why not prime time TV?
There is no evidence of the existence of any god, the effectiveness of prayer or of heaven or hell.
Biologically our brains are hard-wired to seek answers, provide meaning, look for patterns and follow leaders. That mentality served us well. When faced with infinity, a universe, time and death it searched for an answer, meaning, logic and explanation. The best we could come up with was a god.
We’ve created tens of thousands of them – suns, moons, rocks, seas, gods and goddesses in streams, lakes, the sky, stars and various animals. We’ve a history of it. We no longer worship Baal, Zeus, Diana, Aphrodite, Apollo and all the others.
Human psychology has to have a purpose for life and for death.
Why should I believe in something Freud described as a ‘Mass delusion”.
It’s beyond me, apart from the psychological needs and mass indoctrination, how anyone can believe. I have seen no evidence. But each to their own. I have no problem with people believing in what they like with the provisos:
They do not use it to harm others
As a means of intolerance or prejudice
They do not coerce others
They do not indoctrinate children.
Fair enough, I understand you wanted to keep it short seeing as it was a blog post not a book.
There are a few factual mistakes in your reply that I will correct, then I’ll ask you a two questions.
The bible is a compilation of books and letters. This is correct. However, the factual mistake is thinking that the bible was written after the disciples. Firstly, the Torah, which is the Old Testament was already in existence during Jesus’ time. Moreover, the first gospel written was around 70AD which is 40 years after Jesus death. Not merely enough time for ‘myths’ to occur. Paul’s letters date much earlier than that. (2) The Jewish people were and are still known for their ability to memorize massive amounts of information. Moreover, those people during the time of Jesus dependant heavily on oral communication and it well documented that people had extremely good memorization skills. (3) Constantine did not compile the Bible. And books were not burnt. The symposium you refer to is the known as the Council of Nicea which held because of the Church’s concern over Arius who preached contra orthodox teaching, namely, that Jesus was a created being. Those some factual errors and now to the question.
The question: Is your argument that God does not exist based on Freud’s projection theory? If so, how would you go about defending the view or even argue for it?
Cheers IJ. Thank you for your input. You are obviously knowledgeable. Yes I was aware that the Old Testament was a long existing Jewish book and that the New Testament was grafted on to it in order to give it more credibility.
The Symposium was indeed the Council of Nicea and from my information they did decide what went in and what was left out and destroyed documents as heretical.
The gospels were written by unknown hands after the death of the disciples. You have a great deal of faith in the powers to memorise. I’m not so certain and the discrepancies between the gospels make me more sceptical.
Constantine adopted Christianity, and called the Symposium, for political reasons to unite Rome. At the time there were disparate Gods and Goddesses. There is evidence that he continued to worship other gods though.
I found Freud’s theory interesting but my view is based on my experience and observation. Having read the holy books (bible Qu’ran, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita), looked at the history of religion and observed the way it has been misused, travelled extensively and observed religious practice, I see no evidence or possible reason to believe in any god – at least not in the way that religion choses to portray him.
Hi IJ, I can quite easily group all religions together in terms of their controlling ethos. They ALL strive for the same gains – a magnitude of concurrent thought and discipline. I cannot tolerate such ideology.
Actually I consider that both testaments of the Bible to be very “generalised statements” in themselves. Was that it – just several hundreds of pages of conceptual conversations between Moses and God and a burning bush? Was that the extent of God’s interaction with our world? That’s pretty short shrift isn’t it, considering all he left were a few parables. Their contained no preconceived notions of any future outwith the known boundaries of peoples understanding and perceptions of that period in time. How very disappointing for all concerned this must have been. It didn’t even get around to outlining the 10 commandments, that had to wait for inclusion in volume 2.
I understand what Orthodox is, but how peculiar Is this the doctrine, that one must take the whole shebang on board without question and may not pick any loose ends? What kind of analysis is that? What kind of study is that? It is neither.
I’d suggest that back in the days of the Old Testament, that writing skills were highly rare and therefore only available to society’s most fortunate. Why were these written works only the works of the powerful and most wealthy? Where did the common man fall into place in this grandiose creation? He didn’t. It’s one of our earliest examples of manipulation over the inhibited and lesser mortals.
Neither did it actually forsooth any factual evidence.
However, in the case of the New Testament, many difficulties arise with the concept of “Skopus” and the meta-narrative.
It’s most widely distributed version, the King James, has been tampered with by both Christian clerics and royalty for reasons known to only themselves, no less than 56 times since the reign of Henry VIII. These extremely powerful people were the only people to hold such strength of powers to exert their will over the converted masses. Where therefore, lies the credibility of this scripture?
I have a rather large problem with this.
Evil, well I guess we all have a varying degree of interpretation of where the boundaries of evil will perhaps begin. Determinism is a completely unfounded concept – there lies no boundaries and it floats into the ether, neither used or abused.
I live for today and the future and possess little interest in the lives, thoughts and experiences of those from ages ago. In saying that I’m always interested in their history but really have no wish to be re-living their lives or manifesting any continuum of their given belief structure. I don’t hold them in any contempt at all, just that it’s my turn and my time to be able to have my own ideas about life.
The Abrahamic tradition has continuity. It comes out of the same root. The God of all three (though vastly different) is supposedly the same god.
Christianity requires a belief in Jesus as the Son of God. I do believe there was a man called Jesus. The historic texts refer to him as the leader of a minor Jewish sect. I see no evidence for the many miracles or such like. I do see some wisdom in some of the lectures he is supposed to have delivered. It seems that even Jesus was doubting in god when on the cross – ‘Why hast thou forsaken me?’
As I stated – I have not seen any evidence or justification for there being a god. The Bible, Qu’an and Torah are confused, contradictory, ambiguous and flawed. I see no basis to accept them as anything other than manmade.
Religion has been used for power.
If the child abusing priests or the Borgia popes really believed in what they were spouting they might have refrained from the evil they were doing.
What is it that makes you believe?
The three religions (Islam, Christianity and Judaism) do not all claim their Gods are the same. The God of Islam is very different from the God of Christianity and Judaism. Again, conflating the religions into one is faulty foundation.
Could you give me an example of something contradictory from the Bible? Also, because something is ambiguous that does not mean ‘therefore, we should not take this seriously.’ Otherwise, quantum physics should also be thrown out with the Bible.
Another question, would you argue that there is no such thing as the supernatural?
Really?
Then why are the Old and New testaments combined and both taught by the Christian Church if they are referring to different gods? Why do the Muslims recognise Jesus as a prophet if his god is different to theirs?
Same root. Same tradition. Same god.
God wants all men to be saved. 1 Tim.2:3,4; 2 Pet.3:9.
God does not want all men to be saved. Jn.12:40.
It is better that widows should not remarry. 1 Cor.7:8.
It is better that young widows should remarry. 1 Tim.5:11-14.
Jesus said that he would judge. Jn.5:22,27-30; Jn.9:39.
Jesus said that he would not judge. Jn.8:15; Jn.12:47.
Jesus said that The Father judges. Jn.12:48,49.
Jesus said that The Father does not judge. Jn.5:22.
Jesus said that his disciples would judge. Lk.22:30.
There are pages and pages of them.
Do I believe in the supernatural? Depends on your definition. I believe there are forces and qualities that humans have that have not yet been scientifically proved. But no. I do not believe in ghosts, zombies, werewolves or weird things that go bump – including satan.
One cannot help but notice that every civilization in human history grew up around religion and that atheist regimes are responsible for the greatest mass murders and social calamities in human history.
In fact, religion instills the social order and virtue in the individual person that makes civilization possible.
Consequently, atheism is diametrically opposed to human nature and should be avoided by anyone who values civilization.
I cannot agree with your assertion. The greatest mass murders were perpetuated by a number of societies in the name of religion. Christianity was estimated to have murdered two million ‘witches’ in Europe. That’s before we look at what the Spanish did to the Incas, the pilgrims to the Native Americans, The British to the Aborigines in Australia. Hitler was a Christian. The persecution of Jews goes back centuries and is still very prevalent. Ghenghis Khan wasn’t an atheist. The Muslim invasions of India and Europe were hardly blood free. The inquisitions, burning of catholics and pogroms were led by religious people. The crusades and jihads have been atrocious. ISIS is repugnant.
It is true that civilisations have been based on religions – it you call worshipping the sun or trees religions – but as I have said – religion is hard-wired into our psyche. Hopefully we’ll grow out of it.
It is also true that Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were probably atheists. All that proves is that people in power (religious or not) tend to behave like tyrants and practice genocide.
I’m an atheist. I am one of the most caring and considerate, civilised people. I do not support violence, intolerance or hatred.
I do not believe religion instils any moral value or virtue. The biggest exploiters, child molesters and hypocrites going claim to be religious. They are responsible for screwing the poor, creating misery and inequality, death by disease, child molestation, war and social inequality. While they hoard their billions, billions starve.
No – your logic is hopelessly flawed. I have more virtue than all of them.
Christian “mass murder” is a myth driven by leftist propaganda.
Atheist mass murder in the order of 10s of millions is well documented and barely a century old. And it continues to this day.
I think you are being a bit blinkered on this. The crusades, pogroms, inquisitions, invasion of South America, America, Africa and Australia, the persecution of witches, the antisemetic persecutions, the holocaust – all these and tons more, are left-wing propaganda?
How about Sarejevo? a myth? Iraq? Or doesn’t that count?
Perhaps the Armenian massacre was made up?
Have you not read Wolf Hall and Bring Up the Bodies. That is an accurate picture of Christian Fundamentalist atrocities. Public burnings for Sunday after church.
Silenceofmind : So the Christian Crusader wars with Islamic Turkey just didn’t happen? Was it all just the figment of the imagination of King John? That was one heck of a lot of dead Turkish “myths”.
Silenceofmind : You are very conveniently confusing people’s beliefs in the powers of the Sun and the Moon, over man-made conception of religious clap-trap. Your above summary has huge massive holes in it.
Long before any of these major religions were ever conceived of, people’s lives were solely determined by food resources governed by a) their immediate climate b) the time lapse of seasonal activity of the Sun on crops c) the partial time lapse of seasonal activity by the Moon. These factors are fundamental to anything and everything. This is all that mankind worshipped.
Followed by the knowledge of how to make fire, followed by flint stone knives, followed by the wheel.
Peoples were part of very strong bonded communities and had to work together as a whole to survive. Killing each other was not on their agenda. At least not for societies that created fixed homesteads and albeit primitive buildings.
These organised religions that we have today came later as man had ability to travel and trade.
For example, pre-Islam, the Middle East and Levant peoples were extremely innovative in the development of understanding in Mathematics, Astronomy, Horticulture, Art and Design. The introduction of Islam stopped all such dead in it’s tracks and these same peoples embarked on spreading their message throughout the world come what may. It was an unmitigated disaster for the further enlightenment of the rest of the world.
Perhaps had this not happened people would not have believed the world was flat up until only about 500 years ago.
Consequently, for example, the Muslim Empire that raged wanton tyranny right across Europe all the way to Spain for hundreds of years with several thousand battles and wars with other territories, let’s just say, were not exactly invited over to Spain to swap knitting patterns.
Where your argument fails is in the differentials in the concept of “civilisation”. I’m certain that Pygmy tribes living in jungles had some form of civilised religion yet were prone to boil people in pots for the common good of their conceived ideology. Yet others, also “civilised” found this practice to be abhorrent.
There is very little civilised about Islamic culture today when compared with western religious practices. Therefore, frankly, I cannot agree with you.
Opher,
The Crusades were Europe’s response to the Jihad which stormed out of Arabia 500 years earlier to conquer fully 1/2 of Christendom (Middle East, North Africa).
Your insistence that the Crusades are examples of Christian mass murder proves my claim that you are just citing atheist propaganda.
Further, as proven by current events, the Jihad continues to this day.
Further, pogroms are not mass murder. Neither were inquisitions. And the Spanish Conquista is no more mass murder than the Islamic Jihad, the centuries of Viking rampages or any other war.
Mass murder is a tool in the atheist regime’s state craft tool kit that is used routinely on its own people.
I don’t think you’ve read your history. The Muslim’s were terrible. Almost as bad as the Christians. What the Spanish did in Peru in the name of Christianity was genocide writ big with evil. Do you know how many people were tortured to death by the inquisition? Or horrendously tortured? How many Jews were killed? The pogroms were not murder? Duh! And you conveniently put aside the Holocaust. What King Richard did on crusade was abominable. I don’t defend Jihad or Vikings. All madness. But Christianity is as bloody as any. To deny that is just plain blinkered.
Opher,
The Spanish Conquista was not done in the name of Christ.
It was done in the name of fame and fortune, like many of the wars of yore.
In fact many Christian saints became martyrs defending and caring for the indigenous peoples oppressed by the Spaniards.
In fact, in Mexico, the Catholic Church was outlawed from the get go from participating in politics.
And if you have lived in Latin America like I have you couldn’t help but notice the vast chasm that exists between the Christianized population and the brutal regimes that oppress it.
It is well known that your version of history is propaganda and has no factual basis whatsoever.
I’m afraid that walking around the Vatican recently and looking at all the amassed treasures on view, bought with gold and silver taken from the poor, I was struck by the opulence, luxury and wealth. To me religion is synonymous with war, intolerance, rape, destruction, power and violence. It has always been about power. I don’t know which history books you’ve been reading but they must have been written by some strange people. The Spanish set out in the name of god.
It seems you believe everything you don’t believe was written as propaganda. Where were you indoctrinated?
Evil has been committed by the church. I suppose you also believe that all the child molesting priests are propaganda – the witch hunts – the crusades?
Religion has committed no crime.
Think again. Read your history with the blinkers off.
Silenceofmind: You should watch “Blood And Gold – The Making of Spain”, the truth about El Cid and the Spanish Inquisition – BBC4 TV, 15th December at 21.00hr GMT.
I respect your beliefs but I think my propaganda is superior to yours.
Silenceofmind: You stated “it is well known that your version of history is propaganda and has no factual basis whatsoever”.
Well known by whom? The Ignoramus?
Are you serious? Have got the remotest idea of the standard of research being continually conducted by the most competent teams of unbiased and enlightened persons within many of UK’s universities? Do you think for one second that any conclusion of any historic event closes the book on Britain having lily-white clean hands? You must be completely joking, matey. Goodness knows how on earth you have arrived at such an utterly stupid and naïve opinion.
You could not be more incorrect with your above statement
I agree with you on so many points. Yes religion was created by man to control, and yes the church has done and continues to do horrible things in the name of God, as do people. Yes there is an energy or life force that some people call God, the Source, the all – whatever you want to call it, there is an energy that flows thru us, with us, and we are co-creators in it. I consider myself a spiritual person and to me spirituality is your own path, your own take on “God”. I have personally experienced this force so I know there’s something there and it is good and beautiful as you often describe. I am having a wonderful time discovering your blog ~ Peace
Hi Diana – I’m glad you are finding things of interest. There’s quite a range – over four thousand posts.
It seems we are in accord over religion and spirituality.
All the best – Opher.