Does Socialism work financially?

There is a myth circulated that socialism does not work, that financially it gets itself in a mess.

“Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money.”

It seems to me that this is a myth created by the Tory media. It is like Goebbels spouting his Nazi propaganda – if you say it enough times people will believe it. When the whole of the media is owned or controlled by the rich and powerful it is no wonder that things become distorted. They manipulate us.

The Tony Blair government, ostensibly socialist though most would see it as watered down Thatcherism, certainly was effective financially. That government operated in the black for most of two terms – unlike the Tories with their more Capitalist policies.

The Labour government was blamed for mismanagement when in fact the financial crisis was a global phenomenon stemming from general banking bad practice – particularly in the USA.

Still the myth is circulated about the effectiveness of socialism. Could that be because ‘all’ the media is owned or controlled by capitalists, wealthy people with vested interest?

Socialism is about social justice and equality. History demonstrates clearly that Capitalism siphons money from the bottom to the elite at the top. It results in an unhappy land of ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’. Socialism taxes the rich more to provide better services for everyone and thus reduces the inequality. It nationalises key industries so that they are not overpriced to produce profits for wealthy investors. The profits are ploughed back into improvements in service.

I would prefer to live in a fairer, more just, society which respected the environment and all people, is tolerant and caring. That can only happen under a socialist government.

43 thoughts on “Does Socialism work financially?

  1. That myth, as you put it has absolutely nothing to do with the Tory Party. It couldn’t be further from the truth of the matter. Secondly, we don’t really know what it is like to live under a true Socialist regime, and if we were, I would sincerely doubt you’d be giving it any thumbs up.
    They are a miserable living hell.
    Name me one Socialist State that hasn’t executed thousands upon thousands and also ended up completely bankrupt.
    You can’t.

    1. I’d be giving it the thumbs up if it was run properly. The socialist policies brought in after the war by the Labour government took the country forward no end. They introduced the NHS.
      I think you are talking about communist states rather than socialist. Most socialist states have been destabilised by the West. so we don’t know how successful they might have become.
      You’re supporting an obscene inequality run by greed that is presently trashing the whole world and preventing any other form of government working.

  2. How are you, Opher? Did you visit Kerala?
    I’m surprised you cannot see through the Corbyn sham. “For the many, not the few”? Corbyn is one of the “few” – £130k plus per annum; his wife runs a business selling coffee supposedly sourced as fairtrade but bought from poverty-stricken farmers in Mexico & he owns £1m plus house. He has promoted Abbott & Chakrabarti who sent their child to a selective school contrary to Labour policy. Thornberry probably did too but her fame comes from her mocking a working class constituent because he had a white van and an England flag in his window. She is married to a high court judge ffs and is the child of a university professor and a teacher – hardly from a working class background as she frequently claims. Corbyn’s two main advisers for this campaign are Seumas Milne, son of a former BBC Director-General, Winchester and Oxford educated and James Scheinder, Eton & Oxford educated & son of a multimillionaire financier. Is this socialism in action? I think not. McDonnell is the sole socialist in the shadow cabinet but he gets pushed to the back because he is not a member of the Islington mafia. Corbyn claims he was trying to broker peace by marching & sharing a platform with the IRA. How come he didn’t march with the Loyalists then if he was playing the diplomat? He is so naïve he wants to negotiate with ISIS, the members of which have an absolute belief that they will conquer the world by the will of God. How do you negotiate with fanatics whose life purpose is to destroy or enslave you?
    I can’t think of any socialist country which has been a success. The post=war Labour government despite all the good provisons it brought did not last long. Why? Look at Venezuella lauded by Corbyn et al. It’s a basket case and that’s not down to Western powers. Socialism is great in theory but man is imperfect. He is competitive and invariably desires a greater share than the next man. Man is short-sighted and selfish. From trashing the seas to throwing litter from a passing car and to needlessly killing other men and animals, he is a curse on the planet. If you can change that mindset, then maybe socialism has a chance but never with the hypocrites of the Labour party.

    1. Hi Bede, We’re all good. Hope you are well? Must meet up and have a catch up.
      No Bede – didn’t get to Kerala – went to Chennai though!
      The only alternative to the rampant greed and inequality of the Capitalists is socialism. There isn’t anything else. Theresa May is on a wrecking course – goodbye schools, NHS and social services. You can’t seriously vote for that?

      1. I’m voting Lib Dem because they have a policy of legalising the sale and cultivation of marijuana. That in my view is a doable policy which would not cost much and could be passed on a Private Member’s Bill even if the Lib Dems were not in government (likely scenario). There is a massive drugs problem in the UK especially in prisons. Banning legal highs like spice only serves to drive the supply underground. The government needs to control the trade. Doing so would also produce extra tax revenue. Also they are in favour of remaining in Europe. Neither of the main parties is.
        I listen to all the pronouncements of the parties but I remain sceptical about the validity of most of them. Any primary school child can draw up a shopping list of goodies but by the age of 10 the child realises that the goodies have to be paid for. Labour’s list of promises sounds good and most people would agree with such a list but it’s not doable. Even if Labour won an outright victory their MPs can’t agree amongst themselves. Two-thirds don’t support their leader. It would be worse if they formed a coalition with minority parties like the SNP, Nationalising the railways for example is simply going to give the shareholders in Virgin etc massive paydays without improving the services. I travelled to work by train under British Rail and the carriages were packed to overflowing then plus the service was poor. There is no evidence that taking an industry into public ownership improves it. Public services are notoriously inefficient and wasteful of resources. Just look at the waste in the NHS. It’s scandalous although I’m not calling for the NHS to be privatised. Ironically it was Labour under Blair which saddled hospitals and schools with massive debt under PFI initiatives.

      2. Well Lib Dem is at least better than Tory. I detest them and their lies. What they are doing to public services is criminal (which at the same time giving huge tax reductions to the wealthy). It is scandalous.
        Legalising drugs is the only policy that makes sense. They are a health issue and not a criminal one. Prohibition increases misuse.
        The Labour Party has costed their programme in detail. They might not be able to do it all but at least it is moving in the right direction. I’ve just seen Corbyn and he was inspiring. The way he has been treated by the whole media (BBC included) is appalling. It undermines democracy.

  3. I know the difference between Socialism and Communism and certainly wasn’t referring to communist states. China for example, is a Socialist regime. I wouldn’t fancy it at all.
    Canada is too, and plagued with controls after controls of what one can do or as the case really is, cannot do.
    Closer to home, there’s Ireland – a nonentity of a country, Holland, Belgium, Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark. With exception of Holland, any of them could be removed from the map and we wouldn’t miss them.
    Last but not least there’s New Zealand, and I think we all know what a cultural backwater that is.
    Plus, with exception of China, all these countries have small populations.
    Canada 35.8m
    New Zealand 4.6m
    Ireland 4.6 m
    Belgium 11.3 m
    Holland 16.9 m
    Finland 5.5 m
    Sweden 9.8 m
    Norway 5.2 m
    Denmark 5.6 m
    Our UK population is over 65 m which is equal to New Zealand to Denmark on the list.
    There’s something about the Socialist ideology that seems to transform itself into a different beast entirely when dealing with volume of numbers, that being greed and stupidity of it’s leadership. How many times have we seen this. All of South America is falling to bits and will be swept up by USA’s capitalist claws – it’s already happening.
    Socialism is known as a 20th century failed ideology for very good reasons.

    1. Well obviously I disagree with most of what you say. Having spent time in Denmark I was greatly impressed by the ethos; its caring environment, great services, orderliness and standard of living. They pay high taxes and reap the reward with great services and infrastructure, a secure way of life, a friendly, peaceful country and wonderful amenities – playgrounds, cycle tracks, swimming pools, libraries – you name it. Unlike over here.
      The alternative to trying for a fair society is the greedy inequality we have here – poor public services and infrastructure and a small elite creaming it in for themselves.
      If something worth doing hasn’t worked you have to find out why and sort it – not abandon it and stay with a corrupt system.
      I detest the Tories and all they stand for. The capitalist system is not only destroying our social structure but is in the process of destroying the world. I’ve just been travelling around and seeing the outcomes – the huge forest destruction for profit crops. The overfishing and irresponsible mining, oil extraction. The exploitation of cheap labour.
      Capitalism stinks.

      1. Why obviously? What’s obvious?
        Don’t you get the point Opher? Denmark has only 5.6 m living in it. It’s really easy to manage. It’s the same size of population as Scotland and I’ve got a playground, cycle track, swimming pool and library all within spitting distance from me. What about them? What’s new? The playground, library and swimming pool were built in the Victorian era, the cycle track in the 80’s and I don’t think the Victorian era was particularly socialist. I also have great services and infrastructure and wonderful amenities. As for a secure way of life, you’ll have to define exactly what that is.
        I’m afraid you’re going to have to come up with a somewhat larger scale model than Denmark before you’ve any chance of getting me interested in age-old failed-as tested socialist ideology.

        The trouble is as I see it Opher, is you’ve spent most of your life in what could in general terms be called a deprived area. The Hull area has some quite shockingly bad statistics. For example, teenage pregnancies are 65% higher than any other area in the UK. This obviously indicates a high level of widespread social deprivation. In fact, Hull is the 10th most socially deprived area in the whole of England – see the Legatum Institute report for 2016.
        52% live in the most deprived areas in the country. Hull was found to be the worst for essential services and ranks 2nd worst for schools.
        This was also the case for the 2015 report.

        I read the comments of one former Hull resident who said, quote, “I was born in Hull and left in 1974 at the age of 17. The problem with Hull is that the population would vote Labour if a pig was standing for the Labour Party. It is a city of three safe labour seats that’s why you get scumbags like Prescott parachuted in from Wales to represent the people of Hull East. He was my MP and I recently visited the council estate I grew up on (Bilton Grange) to find it has reached rock bottom. So much for Prescott and his years of representing the area. He should loose his pension for what he has FAILED to do.”

        That said, all cities have levels of social deprivation, but where the model fails is when political beliefs hold sway over common decency. Hull is a victim of that. It’s stabbed itself in the back and rubbed salt in it.
        Hull has a lower rate of home ownership than the national average and widespread long-term unemployment with council estates in dire straits need of remedial repair and all the Labour Coucil running these affairs can do is subsidise squalor.
        That’s socialism for you. No thanks.

      2. I have actually spent most of my life living in the East Riding (31 years) and Surrey (18 years) and London (7 years) and Los Angeles and Boston (1 and half) and only 11 years in Hull. The East Riding is prosperous with good schools and amenities.
        The Victorian age is hardly an example of great social structure – the poor living in conditions we wouldn’t keep pigs in. Haven’t you read any Dickens?
        You make far too much on scale. It would be easy to replicate with funding and planning. If scale is the problem then run it on a county basis. Me thinks you are casting around and coming up with rubbish.

  4. Opher, the Tories cut corporation tax to 19%. That enables companies to employ more people and to invest more. They raised the threshold when people become liable to income tax. Who are the Tory friends they have enriched? Labour used taxpayers’ money to bail out the banks. Labour introduced zero hour contracts. Labour encouraged local authorities and NHS trusts to take out large private loans at exorbitant interest rates. Even Philip Green was knighted under a Labour government. Unemployment is at its lowest figure since 1975. You can’t argue with that. Labour wants to raise corporation tax to 26%. They have also set out a vast spending program. You say it’s all costed in detail but it’s not. Most of the projected income is speculative like the predicted increase from corporation tax by increasing it to 26%. History shows that raising corporation tax does not increase the tax collected by HMRC. In fact more has been collected under the rate of 19% than was previously collected under the 27% rate. If you hit wealth creators and wealthy individuals too hard like Healey tried in the 70s all you do is drive them elsewhere and deter enterpreneurs from starting up. Tthere are plenty of countries who can offer better trading terms especially now both main parties are going for Brexit.. Look what happened in France when Hollande got in. Wealthy people moved abroad to avoid taxes and unemployment increased. That’s what happened here in the 70s under Labour. Inflation and interest rates were in double figures. Union bosses were effectively running industry. McCluskey will be if Labour win the election because McCluskey has got Corbyn in his pocket. The country had to be bailed out by the IMF under Labour in the 70s.
    Whichever party forms the next government has to fit within the existing structure otherwise there will be chaos. Corbyn is propagating a garden of Eden which exists only inside his head and maybe on his allotment. Anyone who swallows his crap will rue the day. Fortunately I intend to live elsewhere irrespective of who gets in. I reckon Labour can have two years by borrowing then the system will collapse.

    1. Bernard, I glad that you have contributed this. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve said here that we can’t afford to chase investors away by hiking up taxes, the shenanigans with the banks and the very expensive loans to local authorities. I fear Opher has forgotten all about that “there’s no money left” note.

      1. Me thinks you are making far too much of a silly note left by a silly person following a world-wide crisis. You’re using it as an excuse.

    2. Sounds like the story trotted out by the Tory media, Bede. The story that says fairness can’t work. So we have to have the bankers getting million pound bonuses while nurses resort to food banks; we have to have public services slashed to give tax cuts to the rich because otherwise they won’t invest.
      Well I say bollocks to that.
      The State needs to invest if bankers won’t.
      I detest the Tory mantra. We are meant to be subservient and put up with the arrogant exploitation of the super-rich, panda to them because otherwise they’ll take their money elsewhere?
      Well they conspire to undermine any socialist agenda because it does not line their pockets.
      Fairness and justice is worth fighting for and supporting a corrupt system is not something I’d do. The Tories represent 10% at most and use the media to manipulate the others.
      The Labour manifesto is the best I’ve read. I’ll support that and not the detestable Tories. It’s for fairness and equality – not elitism and injustice. The rich are parasites. We need a dose of flea-spray.
      Perhaps if the Tories hadn’t slashed public services so much the police might have caught that bomber last night and a lot of little girls wouldn’t have been blown to bits?

      1. Banks are not publicly owned and like any private business, it’s up to the shareholders to determine how much their executives own. We do not subsidiise or pay the bankers from our taxes. The exception occurred under Labour in 2008 and doing so left a massive deficit.
        In the absence of a cogent argument or any persuasive evidence comes the “conspiracy theory” like the Tory Press.
        That is a cheap shot blaming the public services for the Manchester bombing. Getting rid of the Human Rights Act and controlling who comes and goes from the country is more relevant to preventing incidents like that. Your man has a history of condoninguch attacks. He chose to march with the IRA, hescribes Hezbollah as friends’;

      2. Then banks should be nationalised because what hey are doing is obscene.
        Not just the blatantly Tory Press but the entire media including the BBC. It all represents and supports the establishment. It is scandalous, lying propaganda. You only have to look at the subliminal tone. It disgusts me.
        No it is not a cheap shot. I know. I have relatives. The cuts are affecting manpower and the ability to monitor and control. It is a direct result.
        The Human Rights legislation was very largely British and a really good thing. Most terrorism is home-grown. It is not brought in with immigrants. We’ll see who this nutter is and where he comes from.
        The Irish and Palestinian situations were complex with a great deal of wrong on both sides. He condemns all the violence. I agree with his stance. He condemns both sides.

  5. Corbyn wanted us to take the Calais jungle occupants. He refuses to be drawn on regulating migrants. He wants to negotiate with ISIS. He wanted to arrest Mohammed Emwazi in Raqqa. His “very good friend” Ibrahim Hewitt wrote the book “What does Islam say” which advocates the death penalty for adultery, homosexuality and apostasy. Some friend!! He favours open borders for the UK. Vote Corbyn and we will get more incidents like the Manchester bombing. What’s the difference between Corbyn marching and sharing a platform with the IRA and doing so with the people behind the perpetrators of the Manchester bombing. All of them are callous killers of innocent men, women and children. Don’t give me that shit of Corbyn being a diplomat. He spoke and supported one side. That’s not trying to achieve a settlement. It’s endorsing the killing campaign.

    1. Corbyn would do and say anything to secure the muslim and black vote. He’s a most dangerous basket case and represents the antithesis of security. This rampant multi-culturalism which many of his close political pals not only endorse but enforce, has reared its ugly head and started to bite.
      Didn’t Abbott declare support for the IRA very recently, too?
      She’s another dangerous nut job. She’s the one that came out with the most remarkable statement, quote, “the more immigrants people have in their area the sooner they will become used to them.” They’re the words of someone intent on taking us down into the 4th world. She’s got racist white-hating chips on both shoulders. The borough of Harringay that she ran all these years is the filthiest, most rundown and squalid area I’ve ever seen in London. Brixton/Tulse Hill looks like Windsor Park compared to it.

      1. Utter Rubbish. He has always had the same stance. Diane Abbott may not be the smartest cookie but pales into insignificance when compared to the rabid right-wing Tories. There are a whole bunch of them who are as near fascists as damn it.

    2. The Calais camps probably should have been processed in Britain. If it wasn’t for the channel they would have been. Ultimately we will negotiate with ISIS. We will never defeat them militarily. Just as with the IRA.
      You can have friends with opposing views and violently disagree with some of their beliefs.
      I favour open borders with Europe too. It is a small number of terrorists who need controlling not everyone. They can be successfully tracked without making everyone else pay if we put in the funding and tighten borders into Europe.

      1. We will defeat them militarily. By war of military attrition.
        It’s when you have free for all borders then you have no controls and that’s exactly why they have the weapons they have. They’re smuggled out from former Yugoslavia region, by no means is it all coming from Saudi, Yemen, etc.
        Terrorists can be successfully tracked? Are you kidding?
        How do you propose they are identified?

      2. There isd no way that you defeat an ideology militarily. You have to have a much more complex intelligent answer than that.

  6. Why don’t you read the thing properly before firing back a reply? I had said that the Victorian era wasn’t exactly socialist!
    You moved to Hull in 1974, Opher. How many times now have you said that. I gathered that you didn’t decamp yourself into the depths of the worst housing scheme, but you’re in the vicinity of them whether you chose to acknowledge that or not.
    Looks to me like you’ve failed on the objective to name a country where socialism works.
    You named the tiny insignificant Denmark only because you’ve been on holiday there.
    Slightly peculiar that Sweden for all it’s supposed socialist benefits seems to have the highest – by far – suicide rates in Europe. It can’t have anything to do with the way people’s lives measure out, could it?

    1. Suicide – More the climate and long winters I believe.
      I moved to Hull in 1974 and bought, for cash, the cheapest house in the whole city. It cost me £800. We moved twice to better houses and moved out in the mid eighties.
      I mentioned Denmark because I know a lot about it. There are numerous other examples but I do not know as much about them.
      What I do know is that regardless of anything something that is corrupt and obscene – like Tory Capitalist philosophy, needs replacing. If things don’t work and are worth doing then we have to find why they don’t work and put that right. Social fairness, justice and equality is worth fighting for. The fact that most experiments in the past has been actively subverted by the CIA (South America), starved of money by the US (Cuba) or starved of money by deliberate withdrawal of funding from investors (England) or subverted by dictators (China, Russia, Cambodia), should not mean we give up. This country is run for the few and the rest of us are paying. That needs addressing.
      To support this corrupt, elitist Tory Party is inexcusable.

      1. Your belief is mistaken, because if that were the case we’d be seeing similar in Iceland and Finland, both of which are further north.
        Why am I hearing echoes of one of these cyber nutters that cites CONTRA this and that and CIA schemes and secrecy behind every rotten tomato upturned?
        If only you understood economics. I’ve a suspicion that I’m repeating myself.

  7. Stand he may, but the company he seems to prefer to stand with can be innocuous.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if he turns up at Ian Brady’s funeral to throw flowers into the grave.
    That’s the 2nd high ranking Labour cabinet minister you’ve made lame excuses for in short shrift. The former till dipping Chancellor and now current loony Shadow Home Secretary.
    Are they all loose canons?

    1. Well you seem to be supporting the most right-wing government we’ve had in recent times. They don’t get much more extreme. Even Thatcher and her Heinous crew were not as mad as this lot.
      You support the bankers and other rich kids screwing everyone, support the cuts to public services, and support us being screwed over by the public utilities and I’ll make a stand for fairness, equality and justice. You support the fracking and rape of nature, the nicotinamides and fox hunting. Happy with the yoiks. I’ll stand up for the majority.
      I know where the morality lies.

      1. You’re wrong, completely wrong. I support democracy, not socialist totalitarianism.
        If you were the majority, these screwball clowns that you worship so on bended knees would be in power.
        I think you’ll find yourself very much ensconced within the minority.
        Why should I pay for your lot’s tattoos?

      2. I’m a 100% on democracy too.
        What you say is extremely unpleasant. You characterise people in colourful and discriminatory language. You are distinctly lacking in respect for nearly everyone but yourself. The tattooed working class are like they are because of what has been done to them. Perhaps we should look to address that?
        In the final judgement it is a vote for fairness or a vote for the rich having more.
        You make it quite clear where your sensibilities are – you are for inequality and the greedy rich.
        Just say it and own it.

  8. The only way to deal with ISIS is to eradicate he militarily and stop their funding. You share the fault as your hero Corbyn in that you find good In everyone ISIS members carry an absolute belief that they will conquer the world and turn it into a caliphate by the will of God. How do you negotiate with such absolute mindset? There is no room for compromise. There’s more chance of converting a Jehovah’s witness into a Jew.
    I have always been in favour of a united Ireland but by the ballot box not by planting bombs and killing innocent civilians. Don’t give me that crap about freedom fighters. I have dealt with both sets of paramilitaries in Ireland. You are obliged to if you want to deal with criminals there. The paramilitaries control the crime. They are into excise evasion eg, on fuel and cigarettes, extortion and intimidation. Corbyn supported the IRA and demonstrated it by marching and sharing platforms with them. He invited some of them to the Commons days after the Brighton bomb. You will probably say well they were blowing up the Tories so that doesn’t count. It wouldn’t surprise me if at some future date we see Corbyn marching and sharing a platform with some of the perpetrators of the terrorist incidents in the UK. My information comes not from what you call the Tory Press (presumably the Daily Mail & Daily Express which I have never read in any event). I form my view on what people say and do in interviews and in their interactions with the public.
    You think the Calais jungle occupants should have been processed in the UK. On what basis? Refugees under the Geneva Convention should claim asylum in the first country they reach. You & Corbyn would have thousands of unknown migrants transferred across the channel? We have enough problems containing those already here in detention centres. How would we have contained them in order to process them or did you have in mind freeing them on the promise that they would turn up for an interview when requested.? You need to get out more. You are naïve. Maybe you should have bought a house in Bradford, Birmingham or Luton instead of a safe middle class village in the country. Wise up.
    The Convention of Human Rights was brought in after WW2 to prevent a reoccurrence of the atrocities committed during the war. It was not intended to provide a cloak to shelter terrorists and ciminals and others who advocate terrorism but that is what has happened since Labour passed the Act in 1998.

    1. Well I would agree with that. The only way to eradicate ISIS is militarily, stop the funding, hunt out the people putting out the propaganda and lock them up, integrate people and educate people.
      Things like cuts to police and education do not help.
      Things like more segregated religious schools do not help.
      Things like tolerating people spreading hate do not help.
      I never once said anything about Freedom Fighters. I have said that both sides did wrong and are equally to blame. Irish terrorism is just as bad and both sides did it.
      All the Press is Tory – some more rabid than others. The BBC has been loaded with Tories and has always had a bias.
      I would not have thousands of immigrants coming across the channel. I have always said we have too much immigration. It is how we deal with it that I differ on. I wanted Europe to tighten its borders to manage the problem. I wanted the problems dealt with at source – refugees economic and war need care and management. A lot of the war and unrest is our own doing – American and British aggression.
      I do want the law to deal with criminals and terrorists. The laws are there. They should not work against us. They should protect us. If they don’t it should be modified. Most of the time it works. But didn’t you marry a foreigner and represent criminals to get them off crimes?
      I think I get out quite enough to know what’s going on.

  9. Yes, I have married 2 foreigners in my time. Both work full-time and don’t have even a police caution between them let alone support any form of extremism. They are British citizens. How is that relevant? I am not xenophobic. It matters not to me what colour, which nationality or which religion my friends are, provided they respect others and their differences.Yes I did represent people charged with criminal offences. It doesn’t follow that I endorsed what they may have done. A defence lawyer has to remain objective and operate on the instructions of his clients even if he does not believe them. I didn’t march or share a public platform with them. When are we going to hear a public condemnation from Corbyn of the bomb atrocity in Manchester? I am not a regular reader of the press so I don’t know whether it’s Tory or not. I watch the BBC but not the BBC news or current affairs programs. I prefer Channel 4 news. In any event I thought the BBC was always considered left-wing. Certainly it has been criticised for that in the past. I did watch Andrew Neil’s interview with Teresa May and I shall watch his interview with Jeremy Corbyn on Friday. I have no doubt Neil will dissect Corbyn over his support of the IRA.

    1. Just sometimes things might not be how they appear. As with you. Corbyn is someone who says and does what he believes in. He condemns all violence and dioes not take sides with IRA, Palestine, Israel, Paramilitaries or the British army. What some of the soldiers and paras did in Ireland was scandalous too. What Israel has done is often as bad if not worse. Who are the innocent?

      1. Opher, post after post you indulge yourself in absolute hatred of anybody and anything not sitting concentric with your political persuasion and agenda.
        Your posts are pock marked with discriminatory and abusive remarks about Tory this and that. Yet you take exception to my most truthful comment that many people of your same political persuasion will sooner spend money on adorning themselves with decorative cartoons and scribbles than perhaps contributing that money towards their household priority needs.
        Above you excuse this appaling habit by claiming that all these people have “had things done to them”. I think all that was done was that they received their SS money. The system fails by allowing them to make the decisions on how to allocate the distribution of these funds towards their essential needs.
        You harp on about services cuts and poverty increase when in fact if you were to do some homework, never has there been so many betting shops and particularly that of tattoo parlours on our high streets in the rougher ends of our towns and cities. Because I haven’t, don’t and won’t choose to mingle with such people at close quarters, you proceed to accuse me of some form of snobbery and elitism.
        You’re wrong Opher, because it’s a matter of preference and personal taste. It’s simply a case of preferring the company of those that are sill sober by midday, not throwing punches by 3pm, wash themselves and change their clothes regularly and wear their own teeth.
        And that’s just the women.

      2. Not hatred. I just detest the way the establishment cons everyone so they can continue to exploit and cream off all the cash. People are so gullible.
        What you so colourfully describe sounds like despair and impotence to me. I too would not like to spend a lot of time with people I share no culture with. But I don’t vilify then and I do feel sorry for the hand they’ve been dealt. They deserve better.

  10. How can marching and sharing a platform with the IRA be construed as anything other than support for them? Corbyn marched in protests against nuclear weapons and against apartheid in South Africa. Why? Because he believed in what he was doing like many others of a similar mind. I agree with Corbyn on many issues such as the Iraq war , apartheid and nuclear proliferation but I don’t share his blatant support of the IRA despite my wanting to see a united Ireland but by the ballot box not by shedding blood.

      1. What he says doesn’t match that of his actions. I wouldn’t trust him to boil my kettle. It’s all meaningless lip service anyway. His party is on its last remaining knee. Anybody that needs Prescott to big him up on a site visit much surely possess one major credibility deficiency.

      2. We’ll see. He was brilliant and 4000 turned up to see him. Theresa the Cruella mop couldn’t muster a tenth of that. But she’s too scared to get up on a platform in public – keeps herself confined to small gatherings of the faithful. At least Major, for all his greyness, got out there on his soapbox.
        Hopefully her complacency coupled with her callous stupidity will be her undoing. People are seeing her weakness and the viciousness of her policies.
        Time will tell.

  11. I think the PM’s got rather more pressing concerns than some 3-lane Labour Council zone that no matter how hard you scrub will never shine. It’s always best to leave a festering sore alone.
    I think you’ll find her every week drubbing Corbyn back into his seat. I don’t think he’s scored one single point in the last 6 PM’s Question Time’s. Her only weakness is that she doesn’t totally crucify him. I’m sure she feels a certain amount of pity and holds back.

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