Democracy is good; or is it?
We enjoy a democratic system; or do we?
You be the judge:
In order for democracy to work we have to have a number of important factors:
a. One person one vote
b. An intelligent well-informed population
c. A good education system providing people with the tools to weigh up and make decisions
d. A media that has no bias and provides factual information.
e. Transparency and scrutiny of all politicians to ensure there is no corruption.
f. Accountability for all the actions and decisions taken by politicians.
g. A system where every vote counts.
h. Representatives elected who are intelligent, educated, informed and able to discuss, debate and make informed decisions better that the electorate can do (They possess all the facts and are better aware of the implications.
i. a system that is honest, free of corruption, free of self-interest and not open to bribery of any kind.
I said that you can be the judge. I’ve already judged.
Looks like we’re still fighting to get there, then.
Quite a long way off by my reckoning Michael.
Out a sight!
as we used to say when we were young and naive and believed we’d get there
I remember those idealistic days of great optimism!
Well, Opher, I certainly agree with your conclusion here. But my reasons are slightly different from yours.
One, a system like the one you outline cannot exist and work for the people, as long as there is still politics. Politics, with the moral inequalities, injustices, dishonesties, corruption and lack of accountability that are built in to the bedrock of the political state, is incompatible with any system that gives human individuals a decent chance.
Two, while “one man one vote” is a perfectly good way of organizing a voluntary society, it is not appropriate when applied to the people who happen to live in a particular geographical area, or who are to be subjected to a particular government. For these people are only a community, not a society. This is because they have not all explicitly agreed to work together towards common causes that are espoused by any particular society. (For example, neither you nor I would be happy about being governed by some bunch of nutters that want to “Make Britain Christian!”)
Lol Neil. You really don’t like politicians do you? But everything is politics. We need laws and organisation because we live in large urban groups. I just went to see Flowers of the Killer Moon – that well-illustrated what happens without good laws and enforcement. Laws require politicians,
We see in the USA the result of people not wanting big government – Lousy schools, corrupt police, no public services and no health system (so they pay through the nose for basic health care – and none for those who can’t afford it).
No. I want good politics with scrutiny and accountability. What we have now isn’t brilliant but it is still better than most. I want it improved.
One man one vote led to the stupidity of Brexit. I want a more informed representative majority with proportional representation.
Opher, I think we are using slightly different meanings of the word “politics.” You seem to see it as something natural, some kind of framework for human social interaction. Whereas I see it as something deeply un-natural and inhuman, a system that allows criminal scum to lord it over ordinary people.
I would say that we need rules of conduct, but that is not the same as needing laws made by politicians. We also need some form of government, but only of a kind similar to the referee in a football match, resolving disputed situations justly, and preventing those that commit serious fouls from getting away with them.
If people in the USA don’t want big government – despite certain drawbacks which may accrue because of that – who are you to say otherwise?
And when you say “I want a more informed majority with proportional representation,” I can’t help hearing “I want a system that always supports my side of the argument.” As well, perhaps, as something along the lines of “Those who disagree with my side of the argument shouldn’t have a voice.” That is dangerous territory for human rights.
But politics is completely natural, Neil. No society exists without it. If you go back to days of nomadic tribalism we had the leaders – chiefs and shamen, and the councils – might involve everyone, just men, just women or elite groups. That’s politics. Those groups decided the ‘laws’ by which the tribe lived. That’s politics in a variety of forms.
Yes. I would agree that the wealthy elite have largely bought, sold and bribed the media, markets and politicians so that the system works for them.
I do not see how any system can work on the lines you suggest. We need laws and enforcement because very powerful, callous, unscrupulous people move in and take over. Go and see Killers of the Flower Moon.
Proportional Representation means for me that every vote counts. That’s all. I’ve never had a vote that counts and neither have most of the population..
“We need laws and enforcement because very powerful, callous, unscrupulous people move in and take over.”
Yes, that’s exactly the problem. Those very powerful, callous, unscrupulous scum have moved in and taken over the very system of “laws and enforcement” that was supposed to defend us against them. And it’s been going on for 40+ years at least. The current system has got to go.
But without the laws and system they have a free hand! At least the election process keeps things in check.
The election process doesn’t keep them in check, Opher, because all the criminal gangs have now united into one party – the Tyranny Party.
Well, while that might be true on one level it doesn’t alter the fact that their are major differences between them that have real impact on different groups of people in different ways. Having elections where they can be voted out does produce a check on their excesses.
Maybe. But it also means that those who are inclined to one side rather than the other are oppressed for half the time. And those of us, who can’t stand either side, are oppressed all the time.
But it could be a lot worse. We could be being bombed.