Interview with RNR Magazine – Phil Ochs

Interview with RNR Magazine – Phil Ochs

Phil Ochs is a largely forgotten figure today: why should anyone unfamiliar with his work pay attention?

Phil still has a huge cult status amongst his many followers because his music is passionate and enthralling. His lyrics are just as relevant today as they ever were.

Your book suggests that Ochs developed quickly as a songwriter and singer – was he a Greenwich Village prodigy?

Yes, Phil Ochs was a phenomenon at the time, a leading light, second only to Dylan. Back in the early sixties Greenwich Village was a hub, a breeding ground for burgeoning singer-songwriters – full of messianic idealism and nascent energy the scene became a cauldron of creativity. This is where Bob Dylan, Buffy St Marie, Tom Paxton, Judy Collins, Richard Farina, Joan Baez, Tim Hardin, Dave Van Ronk and Fred Neil, amongst others jockeyed with blues greats, the folk old guard and the remnants of the Beat Poets. During those short years Phil’s songwriting blossomed and raged.

Many people will only know Ochs as a footnote in Dylan biographies: what was the relationship between the two aspiring folk singers?

They were fiercely competitive but very close friends. During the early days, Bob and Suze Rotolo used to regularly share meals with Phil and his wife Alice. They had fun – drinking, laughing and showcasing their latest songs, developing and feeding off each other. Later on, they sadly had an unfortunate explosive falling out, due to both their egos, artistic jealousy and the pressures of Dylan’s fame. They partly rebuilt their friendship when Bob appeared at Phil’s Allende Memorial Concert at Carnegie Hall and Phil made an appearance with Bob at Gerde’s Folk City in 1975 on the Rolling Thunder tour.

What do you personally feel are Ochs strongest albums and stand out songs? 

I love the full range of Phil’s music. The early acoustic albums, with pared-back productions, all have their highlights, but, for me, the semi-live Phil Ochs In Concert particularly captures the power and beauty of Phil’s early topical songs. His later, poetic, baroque-rock period, includes a series of outstanding performances. I am particularly moved by the poignant emotion of Rehearsals For Retirement which, for me, exemplifies the mood of a disillusioned Phil. My three favourite tracks are Changes – a song about life and death, Police Of The World – highlighting the arrogance and hypocrisy of America as a superpower and Crucifixion – which shines a light on the way we treat our heroes.

Considering pop culture’s love of doomed icons, I’m surprised Ochs has not received more attention – your thoughts?

I’m surprised as well! Phil was an idealist, a man who believed in fairness and equality. He championed civil rights and opposed the unjust Vietnam War. He was consumed by the desire to make the world a better place. His horror at the Chicago riots was an epiphany, a realisation that the demonstrations and posturing of the counterculture were actually counterproductive. Phil was broken by his recognition that America was inherently right-wing. His brand of explicit left-wing proselytising was out of step with the burgeoning right-wing backlash. Bob Dylan had jettisoned his idealism, Phil never did.

Reading your book I sensed that Ochs was a deeply unhappy man who made a real hash of his life. Is this a fair summation?

Only partly. The early days were full of optimism. Phil was a man of deep convictions who only spiralled into despair because he realised that the world was never going to be changed for the better by his songs. It is fair to say that his personal life was a failure. His marriage broke down largely because he had poured so much of himself into his music, was hugely ambitious and torn apart by his lack of success. Following Chicago, Phil felt he was an abject failure, that all he stood for was pointless. He spiralled down into morbid depression, destroying himself with alcohol and finally, in total disillusionment, taking his own life.

Considering how political Ochs was in the 60s, do you think his finest protest songs have relevance today? 

Writing the book I had the pleasure of listening to, studying and thinking about every one of Phil’s songs. They sent chills through me. The issues Phil tackled are just as important as ever. The world has lurched to the right. We are still facing wars, inequality and injustice. Phil’s songs were (and are) beacons of hope, rousing clarion calls to action and moral challenges. In these days of Trump and MAGA the voice and words of Phil Ochs are more relevant than ever. Maybe his time is about to come?

Do you see your book as a step towards rekindling interest in Phil Ochs life and music?

It would be wonderful if my book could help rekindle an interest in the genius that is Phil Ochs. I can only hope that finally he will gain the recognition he deserves.

The world has always needed Phil Ochs.

Biography – Opher Goodwin

Opher Goodwin ran the first History of Rock Music in the country. He enjoys music that is relevant, stimulating and loud. He has written many books including 8 for Sonicbond. What can be better than writing about your heroes?

Opher lives in Yorkshire with his wife Liz. He enjoys good gigs, reading, writing, travelling, teaching and sharing a glass of red wine with friends. Idealistic, unrealistic and obsessive, he likes to write about real issues in a thought provoking manner and doesn’t hold back. His work is controversial and on the edge. That’s just how he likes it.

Writing is his passion.