Well it is the stupidity of the Tory Party that has got us into this Brexit mess.
The question is how are we going to get out of the mess? How are we going to reconcile the two furious sides?
It seems obvious to me that we are going to have to ask to postpone leaving the EU until such time as we know what we want.
May should resign. She has been the incompetent leader who has led us into this cul-de-sac. Her stubbornness, intransigence and poor decision making has created this mess.
We should have a general election.
The Labour Party should get off the fence and fight the election on Remaining.
We should have another Peoples Vote.
The referendum should not be binary. It should give an indication of what type of Brexit the people might want.
If they vote to stay in we end the painful fiasco.
If they vote to leave the EU we have a better idea of what sort of Brexit we are going for.
A cross-party group is formed to form a consensus.
We negotiate with the EU to get a deal that will be a compromise that will get through parliament and represent the views of the whole country – not just one group!
In your dreams. I’m sick and tired of all these leftist losers whining.
Never mind – it’s better than having to listen to all the aggressive bollocks the right-wing are coming out with in their usual callous, uncaring manner. You’ll get used to it.
Looks to me like they are running things. All the leftists can do is whine. They get paid to, which is disgraceful.
The aggression would seem to be coming from the extreme-left as it is they who are now resorting to screaming abuse of “Nazi” at some very ordinary Tory MP’s. People that certainly do not promote violence and hatred such as Anna Soubry, on 7th January during a TV interview outside Westminster.
Such disgusting scummy people they are.
You suffer from extreme hypocrisy.
Sarah – it seems you are completely out of touch. You couldn’t be more wrong. It was a far-right Brexiteer who was shouting Nazi at Anna Soubry – nothing to do with the left.
Are you going to stick with your disgusting scummy people jibe when it’s one of your own side?
My side? Just because I hate the extreme left-wing, then to your logic the extreme-right are my side? How many brain cells have you lost? Don’t answer that, it’s too depressing!
Oh, I see. So you only watched the brief ten second BBC clip? No wonders you’ve no idea what actually happened. Seriously, Opher, stop watching that shit and go elsewhere for some real factual news. They’ve done another job on you, fixing your belief structure to suit their agenda.
I very much hate all these extreme left and right people, but more so the left as they are more aggressive and violent. They tend to be younger and naively heavily principled (indoctrinated) and it’s not a good sign. I would like each and every one of them to go to other areas outwith western Europe and behave as they do and see how far they get with that. Even France and Germany would not tolerate that.
Soubry wants to implement further restrictions on free speech. Whilst I do not agree with that one bit, I do not think the terms Nazi is applicable. And you should know that the left-wingers have accused her as Nazi.
Have you actually seen for yourself the various rabble that inhabit the streets outside of Westminster. Seriously, you wouldn’t want anything to do with them. They are ALL scum.
You really think that the propaganda you’ve been spouting is not far-right? Really?? You really think that the far-right is not the aggressive ones?? Incredible – try telling that to the British Movement boot-boys and the Brexiteer nutters shouting Nazi at Soubry.
Anyway, with regard to your post, Opher, I wonder if the EU negotiators purposely insisted on a deal that they knew would never pass muster in the British Parliament. The departure of the UK will hurt the EU – no question. I think that May should ask the EU for a delay and then clear the air with another referendum now that ALL the facts are on the table. I can understand why the right decries any attempt to go back to the people – they are afraid of losing. In the original referendum, no one knew what the real costs to the people of the UK would be – so that vote cannot be viewed as anything but a tainted vote.
John – I think the EU pushed for a hard deal but the British side has always been totally inept. There was no consensus as to what we were after. It has been a complete farce. May is completely out of her depth and was hostage to the far-right. A complete shambles. I think the EU were totally bemused by what was going on.
The Brexiteers are terrified of another vote because they know that the country have woken up to the reality of what it means to leave. The mood has changed. A big majority don’t want it. The Brexiteers lies have been shown to be lies. All their promises are rubbish and the true costs are becoming apparent.
I don’t know what is going to happen next week. A revote in parliament? A general election? Another referendum? A Tory leadership contest? Resignations?
It is all unchartered territory. We’ll see.
BTW – Happy New Year John – I hope you are OK. I miss your posts!
John, you made a pertinent comment that the EU negotiators. That was evident from the start.
Opher, you are exaggerating a lot. It is quarters of the controlled media who make false claims. May is actually hostage to only what is put on the table by the EU. That is completely obvious and not anything of the works of any other body. Make that clear.
The mood in fact is now far more fervent that the vote will stand. Under no circumstances will they’re be any reversal because of the threats to democracy and government referendum.
The last thing Labour wants right now is a general election!
Wakey wakey!
No Sarah – you are wrong. May put in with the hard Brexiteers and drew up a lot of red lines that stood no chance of getting through parliament or the EU. They negotiated with the mess May brought to the table. Why did the stupid Brexiteers think they were going to roll over? Why should they? The EU had a lot to lose. Their first principle was to preserve the EU. That even trumped the cash.
May is in a hole because she can’t get anything through parliament. It’s nothing to do with the EU. She set the criteria.
Of course Labour want an election. They want power. As soon as they gain power they will put in place a soft Brexit with us staying in the single market and customs union and then Ireland is not a problem. Isn’t that obvious? We’ll be out but we’ll be in. A fudge. That’s politics.
Opher – it’s you who are completely wrong.
What’s all the meaningless “red line” talk of yours and stupid this and that?
Stop that please and for goodness sake stick to the facts in hand. Leave your not so subtle hysterical conjecture for your poetry reading sessions. That’s where that crap belongs.
May had two options. That was it.
She either goes for a No Deal Brexit, which she should have done.
Or
She goes for a negotiable Brexit on the terms dictated by the EU. These are all the terms as devised by the EU and not May’s. May is simply the conduit messenger.
But we are shooting the messenger, aren’t we?
Ireland? I see you have missed the news that the EU will not go any further on any border controls. You are about two weeks behind on the situation. There will be no more interference from the EU on the Irish border. Where were you hiding? On top of the xmas tree or what?
Labour have no chance of winning a general election. Surely even you realise that?
Corbyn is hated as he’s an appalling person. Labour will have to remove him first to have any chance.
You’re right about the EU has a lot to lose. It is losing. It’s losing democracy. That’s why both Hungary and Poland have both been suspended from voting in parliament.
No UK news media are talking about this and they should be. We know why they are not though, don’t we?
Why do we have so many people who know absolutely nothing about the EU, yet are so keen to remain a member? Why are they so keen to have a foreign body control our own governance?
Sarah – you really haven’t understood a thing that has been going on have you? It is May who has drawn up her red lines and set the agenda – not the EU. For heavens sake get up to speed.
Absolute garbage.
May had lots of options.
She should have formed a cross-party group to come up with a set of principles to negotiate with that would have got through parliament. She didn’t want to do that. She went in for a hard-line Brexit with the extremists. It was doomed. She set the agenda not the EU.
She should not have triggered article 50 without having a clear view of what parliament wanted to negotiate on. She was an utter fool.
Brexit can take many forms:
Hard Brexit – crashing out with no deal on WTO terms.
Soft Brexit – staying in the Single Market and Customs Union
May finally realised, after two years, that the right-wing were a bunch of nutters and dumped them. What she came up with was a deal that was in the middle and satisfied nobody.
The majority of the country do not want a hard Brexit which will hit the economy, jobs and the future for their children. They want a soft Brexit which will not cause as much damage. (In fact the majority at this moment in time do not want Brexit at all!)
The majority of MPS do not want Brexit either but feel they have to back the daft decision of the ill-informed public.
The only type of Brexit that can get through parliament is a soft one.
Now we will see.
If she loses the vote today she should resign and call a general election. Article 50 should be revoked. The vote should be put back to the people to decide. That’s democracy!
John – which is also why the BBC are actively ignoring the social revolution that is taking place in France. Their reporting level is negligent. Just yesterday some 80,000 police were deployed to try and manage countrywide demonstrations against President Macron’s agreement with the EU’s most recent immigration migrant policy.
A policy of blatant lunacy and the general consensus amongst the population is one of abject objection. Macron will lose his shirt over this and Le Pen will walk into the job.
Of course the UK Remain campaign contingent working in the media, and there’s a lot of them, certainly will do their utmost to restrict coverage as this matter is the opposite of what they are trying to achieve and promote. Everybody knows the EU is fast becoming a cauldron of expression and hatred for EU policy but they refuse to acknowledge this within the media. It’s an off-topic. The lies and hypocrisy as expressed either in words or actions from these people is disgusting. The sad fact is though that the LCD contingent tend to believe them. As we know it’s always the LCD crowd who shout the loudest. As they say, Fascism comes in many forms and this is one of them.
So Sarah where are you getting all this information that the social unrest in France is all about immigration?
Eh Opher, why that might be the French news stations! You do speak French?
If not you’re screwed. The French are not quite as manipulative with controls over what news they broadcast as we have become.
France is boiling over and it’s all about anti-immigration and the damage that it is doing to French tradition. Quite why you cannot fathom that is not actually surprising because you are a politically charged damage case yourself.
I also watch various German TV stations and watching one right this moment. You want to hear what the Germans have to say about EU policy. Not good.
Sarah – well you seem very selective about the news you take in. What are you tuning into – fascist weekly?