We are constantly being told that to have a democratic People’s Vote would result in a huge breakdown of law and order! Bollocks!!
The fear is that the right-wing bootboys will take to the streets and rampage. The reality is that these fascists are a tiny minority and the population have had enough of their violent tactics and intolerant, racist rhetoric.
Tommy Robinson’s rally was vastly overshadowed by people who are sick to death with this rise of fascism. We fought a war against it. To be British is to be tolerant and outgoing. We have always welcomed refugees!! We are not going to allow these intolerant racists, fascists, Islamophobes and xenophobes to set the agenda. We want our compassionate country back!
The British people have spoken with their feet and actions!! They neither want right-wing stridency nor Brexit!!
We want to be an outgoing, pleasant country!
Here’s to the People’s Vote!!
The Robinson rally was a complete success. The turnout was rather large and was very peaceful with lots of grandparents with their grandchildren. The Police 100% commended the behaviour.
On the other hand, not all went well with the Antifa’s lot. Many were fighting with the Police and some arrested and screaming abuse at all and sundry.
You must have been listening to Owen Jones, who has since been shot down in flames for his lies.
It’s all on film, no matter what Jones is trying to reinvent. Or you for that matter.
You simply can’t have seen the march for yourself. It was massive.
Lol – in your dreams! Go marching with your fascist friends!
Oh no, no, no. I was there and witnessed some disgusting behaviour from a number of people supposedly from the Antifa. They were rolling about with the Police. The Police looked like they were if full riot gear mode.
The film on YouTube is very accurate. A lot of trouble for so few people, maybe only 500 or so.
The Brexits had thousands, many thousands. Twelve, fifteen, a whole lot.
They had a family party atmosphere with no Police wearing riot gear. They carried their riot gear but did not wear it. All the people were singing songs and even bagpipers played old tunes. They had some singers at the end and everybody joined it. There were lots of children there all cheering. A very nice atmosphere and I felt safe.
The other one felt very dangerous and we had to leave after only a few minutes when the fighting started. That was terifying. The Antifa were hooligans.
The report I read said that the Tommy Robinson pro-Brexit march was small and dwarfed in numbers by the counter demonstration.
I don’t know. I wasn’t there.
All I know is that if fascists start marching on the streets again like they did in the thirties they will be opposed. We don’t need their racism, hatred and arrogance. We fought a World War to rid ourselves of their evil right-wing crap.
The report you read was written by the Guardian liar, Owen Jones. We don’t need Owen’s hatred and arrogance. This silly little boy’s reputation is done, he’s finished now.
It’s really not difficult as all you have to do is watch the videos on YouTube. There had been one posted here but you chose to delete it for some reason. I watched it and it was what it said it was on the tin. The Brexit march was many thousands, the oppositions only a few hundred, some of whom preferred to fight the police.
Yes, we fought a war to rid from right-wing crap, and here we are today being dictated to by Germany. I don’t think so. We still can’t forget what they did in Malta. Never.
Firstly – Owen Jones is a very intelligent and refreshing voice and far from done. I suggest you read his two excellent and thought-provoking books.
Secondly – I did not read his report. You jump to conclusions. I actually read a report in the I.
Thirdly – we are not dictated to by Germany. We are in partnership with Germany in the EU. We helped shape the EU and play a very active role. Your equating of present-day Germany, liberal and modern, with the fascism of the thirties and forties is unfortunate to say the least.
No, Jones is a swirm. He is not intelligent. He is toy-brained little boy who has an immense amount of growing up to do. His reputation is done. It has been for quite some time since he became persona non grata with the BBC. That must surely take some doing for an out and out left-wing spokesperson to fall foul of the BBC.
You still read a bad report. Watch the films. The many films. It’s all there.
The I? That’s another toy-paper. The worst of journalism.
We are dictated to by Germany. Or did you not hear Merkel’s words just an hour ago?
What we shaped is in the past is irrelevant today.
Whatever active role we had is also irrelevant.
Have you not noticed how badly we have been spoken to and treated?
How dare these people. These tin-pot little nothing nations that influence absolutely nothing in this world. We ARE the UK. We don’t need shit like that Euro crap.
We’ve got some ex-commie neo-marxist former East German lesbian hag telling us what’s what. Fuck off with her. She also done. She’s off very shortly and look at the damage she’s done to German society. They are furious with her. Livid furious.
I know Germany like the back of my hand. Don’t tell me about Germany.
Germany is NOT liberal and modern. The only thing modern are the buildings and we know why that is. What’s liberal about by law requiring to carry an ID card at all times or you are fined? What’s liberal about reporting to the police where you live and who lives with you if you change address? What’s liberal about under law with signing “agreement” documents that you may not work for a competitor for three months?
What’s liberal about under 21’s being forced into jobs they have no wish to do because unemployment is unavailable to them?
And there’s twenty other “Liberal” legally binding constraints but you can find them out for yourself.
There’s more to Liberal society than acceptance to open sexuality and such issues.
There’s more to the way the individual areas that make up the nation of Germany operate than I think you know. There are some very different arrangements from state to state.
Is that your idea of a partnership? It’s certainly not mine.
You have the wrong word. Try dictatorship and you’ll be close to reality.
Well Sal – I see that your view of the world and thinking is all diametrically opposed to mine.
I think Owen has a great mind and future.
I would much rather be outward looking than insular, trapped in little Britain.
The BBC obviously does not have a left-wing bias – far from it. It just doesn’t have an extreme right bias – which is what you are lamenting.
I too know Germany and have friends that live there. It is very liberal and forward thinking.
Of course Merkel is not a dictator. Heavens – these weird views you have. What have you been reading?
The people I know are pleased with Merkel.
Thanks for contributing.
I don’t think it’s appropriate to brag about a country that in fact you don’t really know very much about. I have friends all over the world but that doesn’t mean to say I know the in’s and out’s of how these countries work. Please don’t brag and then give no examples to back up what you say you know. You are only kidding yourself on. I could quite easily test your knowledge on the workings of Germany.
The European Union is the continuation of the German plan for total European dominance – The Fourth Reich Greater Germany.
In the European Parliament at the beginning of December there was debate to counter act on the threats made by several other member states that they too may very well consider leaving the EU.
Guy Verhofstadt, the leader of the Alliance for Liberals and Democrats for Europe, made an explosive speech, he was so angry and threw a major fit and was shouting. These are his words verbatim:
“…and that is the real problem colleagues, why there is such a problem in this crisis because member states are reluctant to transfer new sovereignty and powers to the European Union. And we all know that the only way out of this crisis is a new transfer of powers to the European Union and to the European Institutions.”
Does this remind you of anybody?
Merkel backs him 100%.
Does Verhofstadt’s statement provide you with confidence that it is outward looking?
As for “insular and trapped in little Britain”, how could you fail to notice the recent Commonwealth Conference of 45 countries. That’s about a quarter of the world with instant access to developing trade. Future trade with world majors USA, Canada, Japan, China, India and Malaysia and Australia is already a given. Britain can extend away from the constrictions of a European only worth 15%, towards the global economy at 85% of world trade. The sooner the better.
I see you have forgotten all about Merkel’s walk-out from the EU parliament two months ago when her opposition questioned her on her appalling treatment of the UK and her actions and strangulating terms being imposed that were unconstitutional and broke many of the ideologies of the original concept of the EU.
Merkel very much showed her true colours that day. Deep down she is still exceedingly angry that Germany persecuted some 40,000 Nazi Party members post WWII and the DDR (East German) sector that she grew up in was governed by USSR.
It’s one thing being President of a country. It’s quite another when also dictating – which is exactly what it is as there is no negotiation – the future rights of another country under her immediate fiscal and financial AND to a lesser degree as they are not in entirety, sovereign powers.
You’re best not to forget that. Yet you think that is a “weird view”? Really, do you?
So, the people you know are pleased with Merkel. That’s interesting. I take it none of them are women. I take it none are women that like to go out at night into the city for an evening out. I take it none are women that live in Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Munich, Leipzig and Dusseldorf, all Germany cities where public sex crimes have escalated triple-fold in the last three years.
I’m not too sure who you are representing with your comment.
The pages of YouTube are hundreds of thousands of pages thick with posts from German women, many young women who are angry, scared, humiliated, frightened, vengeful even. All voicing their complaints over the horrendous changes imposed upon their lives where their social ability has been instantly eroded.
NO, the BBC has become a very left-wing and neo-liberalised institution that very openly flies the flag of the Globalist mantra. Otherwise we would be receiving a lot more coverage of the Yellow Vest demonstrations taking place right now all over Germany, France, Holland and Belgium. The people have simply had enough. They are now demonstrating violently and in ever greater numbers. France is close to declaring a national emergency and imposing martial law in several areas, It hasn’t yet done it but to be even considering such action indicates the severity of the situation. People are now rising against the tide of such unwanted and unelected doctrines of forceful removal of national sovereignty and the rights to govern their own countries.
The recent EU led pacts of forecasted future global immigration levels have been torn up. The first thing that happened in Austria’s new ruling party was to tear up this agreement. Most eastern European nations refuse to touch it.
This massive level of turmoil in western Europe has been camouflaged by events here with Brexit. These events would only further support the pressing need for Brexit.
Brag about? Who’s bragging about anything?
I just don’t go for your conspiracy theories.
The BBC has been loaded with right-wingers – far from left-wing. I would suggest only in comparison to yourself.
If you are so worried about Germany taking over then it is logical for the UK to be in there providing an opposition to their plans.
You said that you know Germany. You said that it is very liberal and forward thinking.
I’m not too sure that’s truthful. The fact you say you have friends there isn’t relevant.
I worked and lived there twice, Berlin and Hamburg, five years worth. You’ve yet to forward one single detail that indicates any of your knowledge.
Judging from the recent political turmoil and complete reversal and the current level of mass demonstrations, your view point might be on very shaky ground without foundation. Basically, bollocks.
It’s very obvious to me that you are in no way equipped to enter debate for the simple reason that you are seemingly unable to motion forward one single factual detail.
I seriously doubt your capacity of knowledge here.
Were you to attempt to explain to me that Verhofstadt is not speaking for the beliefs of the EU, then we might have something to talk about. Or explain what Merkel’s motives are. Or the chronic restrictions imposed on UK at tremendous expense.
I can keep on throwing facts at you, but eventually that’s just like throwing bananas at monkeys. It’s a never ending cycle.
So where is the coverage of the uprising’s currently taking place is several countries right now. Why is there a complete blanket on silence imposed by the BBC on reporting this?
Can’t I ask that question without you falling so low, as low as it gets, to suggest that because I ask that then I must be right-wing. That’s an incredibly moronic level of thinking.
You’re going to need a little more ammunition than simply a point of view belief as to whether the BBC is right-wing or left-wing. That’s rather low level conjecture and very much depends upon any particular journalist or anchorman.
Come back when you know something of any depth.
Throwing facts at me??? No – you’ve been throwing views at me – big difference. You are presenting things as facts which aren’t.
Uprisings? No. Social discontent expressed in protest – yes.
You say I haven’t given you any facts. Read my posts.
I gave you several on German social control to counter your claims of liberal Germany. You forget that Germany’s sudden “liberal” stance is only two years old since Merkel opened the doors to the flood. I’m not sure you fully understand how the Turks were dealt with previous to that. Germany … liberal? Ha,ha very funny.
I also gave you the exact facts on Verhofstadt’s speech and Merkel’s parliament walk-out.
None of the above are “views”. They are facts.
Social discontent expressed as protest does not amount to serious consideration being given to imposing Martial Law.
This comment of yours only goes to confirm that you really don’t realise the extent of the severity of the situation in France. There’s been thousands of riot police moved from other areas into Paris to cope with it. Why are you arguing about it? What’s to argue about? It’s all over French TV, French media, YouTube, multiple other Euro TV stations – but strangely not on UK’s screens. And you want to pretend it doesn’t exist? Why, what’s your agenda may I ask?
Sal – the people I know who live or have lived in Germany have found it a very liberal place. I guess it is a matter of which part you live in and your experience there. It’s the same in the UK. The experience in one part of the country is totally different to that in another.
Of course there is a great deal of social unrest in France. I’ve been watching it. But I would not describe it as an uprising.
BTW – the I is a great paper. Better than anything else I’ve read recently. So that’s both the I and the Guardian reporting on the ProBrexit march being a damp squib. That just leaves the right-wing crap then?
BTW – it’s a pity for you that you choose to waste valuable time reading biased made-up rubbish when you could otherwise resource some other even-handed reporting.
How many times does it need to be suggested to you to look beyond the immediately controlled politically persuaded propaganda publications and watch the films made by normal everyday people. Then you will see for yourself the magnitude of attendance at the pro-Brexit march. You will also see the Antifa (the fighting thugs) march as filmed from somebody’s office or flat window and see for yourself just how small it was.
This is what I was saying before about Jones, where he has been caught out red handed telling lies – fake news – about the scales of each march. He’s been a very silly little boy to do that. Surely he’d realise hundreds of people would be filming? I don’t understand him for this. Anyway his credibility as a respected journalist has been flushed down the toilet. The amount of commentary on the internet with hundreds of thousands of complaints is unprecedented.
The scene at the pro-Brexit finale was like a music concert with thousands of people all joining in singing. The Antifa was a riotous fight, very bad tempered and a disgusting display of yob’s kicking at policemen. The Antifa are the neo-right wing again. It’s all come full circle back to 1931.
This is the third time now that I have suggested that you stop replying with what you had read somewhere and actually go and watch the films. It’s 2018, hurry up and catch up. You behave like its the Crimea and are reading “news from the front” or something. Usually old people make me laugh, but you are just painful.
And see things through the eyes of right-wing propaganda? No thanks.
So we’re into the Orwellian interpretation that the fascists are the peaceful, pleasant folk of the people, and the anti-fascists are fascists.
What are you smoking?
I’ve seen the fascist bootboys at play – baiting people of colour, mocking, antagonising. I’ve watched Tommy Robinson’s EDF hooligans. Violent, small-minded thugs.
Opher said on Dec 14 at 6:48 pm
“Of course there is a great deal of social unrest in France. I’ve been watching it. But I would not describe it as an uprising.”
Tell that to the the 11 Generals, Admiral, Colonel and former Minister of Defence who all signed a letter on 7th December calling Macron should be tried for treason for signing the “Global Compact on Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration”.
I’m quite sure you’d be able to find a translation of the letter yourself.
The situation is extremely grave.
Never mind. I get it. You haven’t learned to work YouTube. Why didn’t you just say Gramps, and we could have guided you through it. Tiny steps. But learn quickly before Parkinsons and Alzheimers.
For the last time. The pro-Brexit march was about 12,000 people. Very much a family affair. No excess of alcohol, at least I didn’t see anybody drinking from beer cans. Many grandparents with their grandchildren. Very pleasant, peaceful and happy.
It was everything Owen’d Jones wouldn’t want it to be.
Why don’t you check out the arrests sheets like for like?
I watched Antifa kicking out viciously at Police just last Saturday. Very violent, very nasty, mindless yobos, kicking and screaming at coloured skinned policemen.
I can only imagine what then happened to those arrested. Ah well, at least the dentists get a fee out of it. Nothing into the nhs though because these people would most certainly be unemployed. Oiks are always unemployed.
Aaah – it is difficult to display both arrogance and stupidity at the same time but you seem to have managed it. Well done.
Arrogance and stupidity, in that order are exactly what you have displayed here on no less than three occasions.
If you can’t take on board any factual information such as the films, and prefer to only believe the written word of agenda based journalism, you’re leaving yourself well short. Which only emphasises clearly why you believe what you believe.
In this day and age that is lamentable and downright stupid.
Sal – I can assure you that I could make a film of the same event in one way or represent it in another. Seen it many times. You buy in to one view. I’ll take Owen any day.
Opher: I’m afraid you’ll just have to concede this one. You’re backing a total loser.
The facts are that the BBC has completely ignored events in Paris. The rioting is extraordinary.
The facts are also as described to you on the Brexit march. It was big, it was peaceful, it was successful.
The Antifa’s little effort of less than one thousand attendees was a violent disgrace.
It is by no means “extreme right-wing” to talk about these things or to question why there is either an absence of reporting or blatant false reporting.
You seem to have fallen foul of the worst of leftist Soros shill mentality, these flaky people who can’t bare to been seen not positioned central to the populist propaganda. There’s really no need for you to add yourself to that bunch of retarded twits. You have a functioning brain. Use it.
So how many do you think were on the Tommy Robinson march? And how many were there opposing it?
The pro-Brexit croud was in the region of 12,000. The Antifa was 1,000 tops – a very scant affair.
There’s a film of them made from a building above the street, so of no obvious bias and you see them arrive at the cordon line in a big mass and then that’s it, there’s no more of them behind. Whereas, the pro-Brexit’s stretched back as far as the eye could see.
This is why there was such quantity of complaint towards Jones. It’s one thing putting a bias slant on your report, it’s quite another making complete fabrication of lies from top to bottom. We have enough silly nonsense false reporting as it is without blatant stupidity like that from someone who’s very visible and writes for a major. That was an extreme act of immaturity.
It does nothing to give anyone any confidence in the media and he’s very much party to that problem. He’s done as far as the public are concerned. He’s been heavily criticised for doing this on too many occasions before, but this was one too many.
It’s one thing being young and enthusiastic, but how many time to we see golden balls going to a kid’s head? He got way too big for his boots. I also blame his editor, he’s another complete idiot.
And I would refer you to thousands of posts of serious complaint made by both Labour and Remain supporters, those of the level-headed variety.
As a closing aside, I suggest that you make revision of your history, particularly that of your claim to “we have always welcomed refugees!!”. Eh, no, not really.
When the Jews were kicked out from Holland and Belgium after their murderous spree, we barred their entry. Slightly more recently, we slammed our door tight shut at the sight of the fall out from the Rwanda atrocities. We didn’t like the idea of several million Africans arriving.
We are actually very quietly but even more methodically removing on a permanent basis many so-called “refugees”. We are very good at offering a hand followed by a swift boot. To be British is to be in complete control. We had a bit of a stutter for a while but are now making swift recovery.
Lol – well thanks for that. It wasn’t huge then – pretty tiny compared to the anti-Brexit marches? Just 12K!
We’ll see if Owen gets too big for his boots. It’s possible. But he has been a refreshing, incisive and intelligent view. I hope he continues to report as wisely.
We have greatly different views of what it is to be British. I thought you were describing the elite and the bootboys.
I would work for a far more compassionate country.
Who has been in complete control? The people in control have always been the same – the wealthy elite, the aristocracy. I think you are deluding yourself.
Why those shady characters oppose the EU is because the EU limits their power. Good job too!
It’s December and cold. It wasn’t a mass demonstration, just a family march. Yet it’s numbers turnout ratio was 12 to 1. That is considerable.
I don’t think you’re letting it sink in properly – Owen has done that already. He’s been thrown off TV because he is unable to control his juvenile temper tantrums, is unable to debate in a civil manner and has displayed himself to be exactly what he is – a common little tyke. He’s now been ridiculed straight back into the toy box.
Considering your senior years I am very surprised that you would be given this silly little boy a second’s thought. But as they say oop north, “there’s nowt as queer as folk”.
I haven’t actually given you any of my personal views of what I think it is to be British.
I would suggest that you maybe refresh yourself of our history. Empire and Commonwealth would be useful entry level starting points.
However, I would say that in today’s terms that would certainly not include the act of completely handing over all sovereign control to a disparate bunch of greedy Eurocrats, none of whom have any personal interest in the UK, other than how much money is going into their pockets. I am certain that you are fully aware of the annual salary scales awarded to those scurrying around in these EU ivory towers.
By control I refer to our legal capacity. I thought that was perfectly clear. We should not be dictated by outside parties as to how we implement and enforce our laws.
Your comment reflects your belief that our entire Parliamentary system is full of “shady characters”, yet those are the people we elect and those are the people who make final decisions on the scope, breadth and depth of our law making process.
That is an appalling accusation and needless to say a highly uneducated one.
We have enough evidence already as to the extent of greed and out of control corruption as prevalent within the mindset of many senior players within the EU governing body. I believe highly accurate examples of such were forwarded to you within another post above. I can confirm also that they are indeed wholly accurate and Guy Verhofstadt’s outrageous comments were filmed and available for perusal on YouTube.
We are at liberty to ignore their wishes that we fall into line under their full control.
Perhaps that is an indication of what it is to be British. We answer to no man. We run our own affairs and are not subject to outside interference. It seemed to work very well for us from 1066 until 1974.
Sal – I have taken a keen interest in history over the years with particular focus on the social struggles that have taken place to win the vote, political freedoms and a fair set of wages and working conditions. I have also paid keen interest to the Empire – good and bad.
As the EU is a partnership it isn’t exactly handing over power to anyone; it is being part of a much bigger and more powerful bloc, isn’t it? Of course we still retain much power ourselves and as far as I’m concerned it is the quality of the laws and not where they come from that is important to me. I would prefer more international laws curtailing the global elite anyway.
I don’t really understand this talk of answering to no man. We’ve been dominated by a bunch of foreign Kings through most of our history and have to answer to a bunch of either aristocratic or wealthy elites who run everything. We answer to them all the time and always have. This idea of freedom is an illusion. This wealthy elite are the same bunch who run the show world-wide. All our freedoms and standards of living have had to be wrested from them with much bloodshed and protest.
As for the cost of the EU – yes I would agree that it is a bit of a gravy train that needs trimming – but isn’t it really a fraction of the cost of our current Royalty in all their Germano-Greek glory?
BTW – I’m a Southerner who happens to live in the North. I would suggest that you read both of Owen’s books – they are very intelligently written and enlightening.
This keen interest of yours must have been somewhat scant in detail, otherwise you’d not of made such wild claims such as “we have always welcomed refugees” as expressed in another post above. All things considered that’s rather humorous and well off target of the truth of the matter.
I can’t speak for your family’s history, but I can for mine going back several centuries, where at no time does there appear to be much signs that anyone was subject to slavery or tyranny. That is freedom.
I suggest you research Royalty revenue versus on-cost. You may surprise yourself.
BTW – your biog says you’ve lived up north for almost all your adult life. You’re now on your fifth decade of not being a southerner. That’s a long, long time period.
I’ve really no interest in such a trash monkey as Owen. He’s a laughing stock and a danger clown. He’s an appallingly trite and infantile little specimen. He’s everything I don’t much like about some northern people – an immature and whiny exaggerating gob-shite, false-flag waving, virtue signalling pseudo victim, and snowflake leftist, champagne socialist Soyboy shill. He’s a complete example of the word salad spokesperson with acute cognitive dissonance.
As Peter Hitchins put it, people like Owen are working to unleash monsters that they have no idea exist. Primo Levi, a Nobel winning writer and Holocaust survivor famously said “Monsters exist, but they are too few in number to be truly dangerous. More dangerous are the common men, the functionaries ready to believe and to act without asking questions.
What did he say in the second that he didn’t manage to say in the first? Or did he feel obliged to make revisions? I don’t read trash and I wouldn’t wipe my arse with it. A fool parts with his money all too easily.
As closure on this, I’ll refer you back to your statement above:
“As the EU is a partnership it isn’t exactly handing over power to anyone; it is being part of a much bigger and more powerful bloc, isn’t it? Of course we still retain much power ourselves and as far as I’m concerned it is the quality of the laws and not where they come from that is important to me. I would prefer more international laws curtailing the global elite anyway.”
So you say. Therefore, can you explain why Guy Verhofstadt – the EU parliament representative for Brexit negotiations as well as being Jean-Claude Juncker’s propaganda minister, said what he said – that all EU members should surrender complete sovereignty. The word to look for is “complete”. What does that do to your view of us retaining much power ourselves? It kicks it into touch, that’s what.
This is the latest EU agenda. So I suggest you said what you said in complete ignorance even though this extremely important issue detail had in fact been brought to your attention earlier, but obviously you’d foolishly chosen to give it scant attention. I suggest you adjust your attention level.
We don’t need the EU for anything to do with law.
Ref the global elite. That rather contradicts the works of George Soros, who is very much the global elite. If indeed you’d wish to seek curtailment of the global elite, good, all the better. Then what would silly little Owen talk about? Owen worships Soros.
Sal – always is probably a stretch – but we none the less have a long history of welcoming refugees.
It depends what you mean by tyranny. Tracing my family tree back there are a number that have been in the workhouse. I would contend that being exploited, working for low pay in lousy conditions is tyranny enough. Not having the vote and touching your cap to the Lord and Lady is not freedom in my book.
Well I find Owen spot on – a very clever and articulate man from a humble background. His books were well worth a read.
People like Guy Verhofstadt can say what they like. It isn’t the reality any more than the ramblings of nutters like Rees-Mogg. The reality is a working partnership that makes us all richer and stronger.
Where did you get this worship of Soros from?
We simply do not have a long history of welcoming refugees. You will have difficulty proving your claim with providing examples of this alleged long history.
Tyranny only has one meaning. I said I couldn’t speak for your family. None of my family were in work houses. They were generations of skilled workers in printing, topography and ship building. Hard work and intelligent work but not sweat shop work.
Your comment indicates a severe lack of appreciation of Verhofstadt’s weight of influence. I spend a lot of time listening to Euro parliament and he’s a particularly influential and certainly extreme character. His close proximity of relationship with Juncker tells you all you need to know.
I myself would not be so fast as to describe Rees-Mogg as a nutter. He’s anything but. I have witnessed his verbal destruction of many a political opponent or media persons where he has made these people look like they were presenting Blue Peter. They were felled like a tree. His appearances on BBC’s Question Time have been of epic proportion where his intellect has simply crushed people. His skills of memory recall to details are second to none.
I would have absolutely no interest in reading Owen’s trash. I wouldn’t be interested in reading his feelings of the stereotyping of chavs. Many are the results of generations of in-breeding and Owen’s obvious dismay with many of his fellow political party’s supporters from this large and disparate sector of our population is very much his own business and of no interest to me. Owen’s politics are certainly of no interest with his up-bringing with parents who were Trotskyist Militants. I can’t think of much worse nor interested in this gay lefty rent-a-gob’s chip on his shoulder. You refer to him as a man. He’s 34, going on 14 as his immaturity level proved yet again with his behaviour regressing back to that of a stupid petulant child. Considering the extent of his fall from grace, he would probably welcome your sycophantic support.
I am surprised to read of your seemingly ardent support for him, considering his Euroscepticism and support of Brexit and heavy criticism of Corbyn to the extent that he believed that Labour and the left had teetered on the brink of disaster under his leadership.
I get the distinct impression with you that you like to argue for arguments sake but forget to bring some back-up facts and supporting information along with you. You will never get very far with that. However, I always enjoy giving ignorant lefties a bit of an education. The trouble is though, there’s just so many, with an endless stream of them. In future, I may have to ask you to join the queue.
Gosh – I could give you a long list of people we’ve given succour to from Huguenots, Jews, and various Asians to Kurds, Syrians and Iraqis. As I( said – a long history.
Tyranny takes a myriad of forms.
Maybe you come from a privileged background. Mine is a mixed bag. But it doesn’t alter the fact that the vast majority of this country have always been exploited and abused by a ‘gentry’ who lived in mansions and kept them in slums. The wealth of the Empire certainly did not trickle down to the minions. They lived in appalling conditions. But seemingly you think they deserved it because they are all inbred scum. Nothing much has changed. Rees-Mogg is the modern-day example of the elite. He’s already moved his assets out of the country I notice. He won’t be affected by the crashing of the economy that he wishes to inflict on everybody else. Rees-Mogg is an ideologically driven man who doesn’t care about the ordinary people. They simply do not come into his equation. I think you are easily taken in by people with plums in their mouth. I have never seen him demolish anybody. He’s just a very unpleasant person. I’d love to see him become leader of the Tories; they’d probably never recover.
You have such an arrogant attitude towards Owen and the left. What makes you so much better? Do you really believe you have a greater intellect or knowledge? Really? You are certainly very disparaging but I can’t say your arguments are based on any great logic or fact. I’m not learning much. It’s all typical rightist propaganda. As for giving ignorant lefties like me an education – well you’ve clearly illustrated why you never became a teacher.
Fortunately there is an endless stream of us lefties because most of the British people believe in fairness and compassion and that is what the left is all about. So continue with your smug superiority and elitism and continue to live in your world, your little bubble, where all people who do not share your elitist views are ignorant scum, inbred and stupid.
As I said, you’d be scant on any details. There were very few Huguenots – you should know that they based themselves largely in northern France, not in Britain. Oops, you forget we gave the Jews a very hard time indeed, so much so they largely all left.
Your list of Asians etc is all post 1954, which doesn’t exactly fall into your pre-set criteria of any long history.
Your family history is your family history, only. What about it? We have always had leaders and serfs, same all over the world and throughout time.
You didn’t read correctly what I had said. The inbred scum is to what I referred to in Owen’s book. They do exist, like it or not in large numbers and Owen acknowledges this.
Rees-Mogg in case you failed to notice is a working MP just like anyone else. The fact he inherited money from his father is his business and also that he has other external business interests is not particularly unusual. There’s nothing Tory about inheritance or doing business. What he does with his money by way of investment or whatever, again is his business and it’s completely legal to invest anywhere he so chooses. The risks are all his and his alone.
If you have never seen him in action, refer to YouTube where you will find countless examples.
Owen is simply another example of the results of left-wing doctrine infiltration into our universities. It’s an on-going problem which had reached an uncomfortable level and is only now being addressed. Hard leftist people don’t seem to survive in the commercial world so it’s not that uncommon to find them entering the education field. I don’t quite understand your comment reflecting upon why I might not have been a teacher. What’s that got to do anything and why should I have ever wanted to do so? I don’t quite follow that logic. Or are you attempting to say that you believe teachers who recite the same curriculum year after year are in possession of well above average intelligence? I think you might be disappointed.
Owen really has not displayed anything original and all he’s done is recite really obvious and well worn paths of commentary about US foreign intervention. He’s not the first to do so. He got a degree in American history which can’t have been very useful and led him to the exciting position of a researcher for John McDonnell.
I have not the remotest interest in Owen Jones and have nothing in common with his gay world view or for that matter the inbred scum, ignorant and stupid that you refer to. I would suggest I wouldn’t be the only one. As I said before, I don’t understand your infatuation with this gay man considering his anti-Euro stance, support for Brexit and criticism of Corbyn. This all seems an anathema from where you’re coming from. Maybe you’re just confused and didn’t realise that? Or were you making judgement of Owen just on the strength of his two books?
Sal – we gave refuge to many Huguenots, I know a few descendants up here! We have periodically given Jews a hard time but also made them welcome. You are very selective aren’t you? No – Hull for instance was home to many different cultures – many Chinese.
I think the aristocracy are likely to be the most inbred scum.
Oh I’ve seen Mr toffee-nose in action many times. Never once been impressed. He’s a living definition of the word twerp.
I was given many offers of work in the commercial field – I chose to do something better with my life – something more beneficial and important. Sheer greed doesn’t greatly interest me. Doubtlessly you would not understand the range of skills and intelligence necessary to be a teacher in the modern age – sounds like you’re stuck with the old-fashioned image of talk and chalk and boring rows of kids. Things have moved on.
I know my own IQ and the IQ of colleagues I employed. They blow most people out the water. I am afraid you are grossly out of touch and merely reciting a well worn and tawdry, arrogant bit of nonsense. We’ve all heard it before coming from the mouths of selfish bastards who only care about themselves.
Have you also got a thing about gays now? This is making quite a list of people you feel superior to and despise.
I’m equally critical of Corbyn’s stance on Brexit. He needs to get off the fence and fight for the country. We don’t need to sink the economy on some stupid ideological Little Englander mentality.
What is clear is that the majority of the country are against Brexit. What is equally clear is that the extremists want to repress democracy by not having a vote. Time for Corbyn to stand up as a leader and save us all from these unpleasant extremists.
Let me correct you. You were talking about organised welcome of refugees, not a few sporadic arrivals here and there. You simply saying you know a few of something is mere conjecture and does nothing to augment your belief.
Your few Chinese in Hull were originally seamen who didn’t re-board their ships for one reason or another. That’s all they were and there was nothing of any kind of organised pro-active transportation programme such as what has been implemented with others in much more recent years.
If you cross country to the west coast and do your research in Liverpool and especially Glasgow, you will find them in considerably larger numbers than Hull. This was a result of the Asian trading routes. Hull was not on their list of stop points as its port facilities were far too small for the size of their ships. Glasgow being the largest and the second port of the Empire was their most popular stop in the UK. The result being significant numbers of Chinese. As well of a good knowledge of the history of the UK, also working for the Civil Service gives ready access to demographic information.
I’m not sure why you choose to resort in talking like an Enid Blyton character, ref this Mr Toffee Nose. Must be your age or something and having read too many Toppers and Hotspur comics. Watch the YouTube’s for ample examples. He’s left many a Labourite speechless. There’s simply no point in your further denial as it’s all there on film! What’s stopping you pressing a button except fear of being proved wrong?
What about your IQ? Who cares but you? Who’s interested in what you thought your colleagues IQ’s were? Teachers work by means of repetition to a preconceived parameter. Their IQ is not in demand. Their patience is, but that’s an entirely different discipline. If they don’t maintain their patience they tend to lose their jobs these days.
I understand the pros and cons of our education system today as I have two children at school. What they receive there is basically inadequate in our opinion so we undertake a significant amount of extra curricular activity at home, particularly with Maths (me) and English (wife). Today’s curriculum is based on repeat mechanisms where children don’t really understand the concept of thought deduction. This is why we breed far too many intellectually immature children.
Correct, I have nothing to do with the prurient lifestyles of gay men. I have nothing in common with them and certainly have no wish to do so. You can try and criticise me all you like but wild horses could not drag me anywhere near the world of gay men. You’re welcome to them. We don’t have any of them within our circle of friends. Similarly with my wife and lesbians. In fact, Lesbians scare the life out of our daughter. She refers to them as creepy perverts. She might be right. She laughs at queer men, which is a healthy reaction.
I had at no time mentioned Corbyn’s stance on Brexit. I had questioned your support of Owen considering Owen’s support of Brexit, which seems to very much contradict your own views. I think you got yourself mixed up a little with that.
I have seen and heard nothing to back up your misunderstanding about the supposed majority of the country being against Brexit, and certainly if last weekends marches were any indication I don’t see from where you receive such information. Just because you hear the views of a few people on a TV programme is not by any means representative of any national opinion at large. That would be a most foolishly naive assumption to make. It doesn’t really matter what you think because quite clearly Brexit will take place in a matter of weeks. It’s a simple as that.
I think you will find that Corbyn is very much despised by the vast majority of this country. He will never become a PM, firstly because the Labour moderates greatly outnumber the left-wing extremists of Momentum and are most wary of the dangers of extremist views such as anti-Semitism. They will block him quite easily as he only has 30% support from the party members at large.
I would agree that Corbyn is indeed an unpleasant extremist and of the worst type. He has never by any means ever satisfactorily explained his actions with hobnobbing with enemies of the state, the IRA. Whilst Hamas is obviously due to his hatred of Jews, as evident from his frequent if not daily posts he used to make on Palestine LIVE. The IRA connections remain a bit of a mystery. I regard him as a silently subversive character and I do not feel confident that he has Britain’s traditional interests at heart.
There’s also the basic fact that he turns 70 years old next May. That’s a real negative for him and both my children think he’s now too old to make them think he could represent them. I tend to agree with that despite not harbouring any ageism views myself.
You seem to have brought old fashioned sexism to your conclusions by forgetting just how many women there are up and down the country who are exceedingly impressed with Theresa May and all she stands for. She is a beacon for women across the land.
Many women will vote for her just because of what she is and any politics will take a very secondary position.
People have had enough of failed policies of economic migrants and forced social diversity programmes and the untold damage that has been done to UK communities at large. They have watched London boroughs fall into being wrecking zones of violence and decay. We now need a period of repair and correctional policy to counter these ills. The Labour Party is not the answer as they have been very much party to these problems. Evacuation from the EU and implementing positive correctional border controls will be priority. We certainly cannot continue as we have been doing for the last twenty five years.
I see – you make up your own definitions.
The only definite that I made here was the thorough dismantling of your points.
My advise to you would be if you stick to the facts of any matter it makes it very difficult indeed to be criticised.
Sal – I gave you the facts – tiny Tommy Robinson Pro-Brexit march dwarfed by larger anti-Brexit march.
They mustered about 12,000 – compared with the previous anti-Brexit march of around 750,000.
But you don’t like the reality.
Firstly, you didn’t give any facts about the People’s March in October.
What you had falsely said had concerned the December march that Owen had reported on last week, an Antifa march in response to Robinson’s march. A different event entirely.
Secondly, it took several people to comment before you were forced to believe Owen had lied. Although one click made by yourself would have confirmed that for you.
Finally, the People’s Vote march in October of 700,000, according to the stewards, and led by Sadiq Khan, was protesters seeking a referendum on the final Brexit deal. This was an entirely different thing altogether from Robinson’s family gathering. Robinson’s thing was not a demonstration, but a gathering.
Sadiq Khan’s supporters are not representative of England at large. He only represents about 5 million people in total, of which only 2 million have a vote at most.
Their efforts seem wasted as it all came to nothing.
The reality is what it is. The UK leaves the EU in 101 days. That’s what’s called democracy.
I don’t think Owen has lied at all. I’ve read a number of reports that back him up.
As I pointed out – Tommy Robinson’s pro-Brexit march garnered a pitiful number compared with the earlier Anti-Brexit march. That properly demonstrates the true feelings of the public. They’ve seen the lies of the Brexiteers and they don’t want it.
Whenever Fascists march on our streets they will be opposed. There’s nothing as UnBritish as the arrogance of fascists.
You lot preach of democracy but refuse a vote. You got your slender majority and are determined to destroy the country in order to satisfy your Islamophobic nationalist ideology.
You’ve lost the plot. The films are all the proof you need. Owen lied. He’s since been lampooned all over the media and maintaining a very low profile. That says it all.
If you think there’s any similarity to the events in October and December you must be confused.
Is your ability to fully understand so impaired as to forget what happened just a couple of months ago? The pro-Brexit people wanted to hold large scale meetings in every town with a football stadium so that people from all over the country could attend. The authorities cancelled all but one that was held in Bolton.
The one march from the Remainer people didn’t seem to add up to very much or gain much momentum as their next public appearance amounted to no more than a few hundred people, most of whom were fighting thugs. They really needn’t have bothered. Many of them were interviewed in October and didn’t have much idea what the march was about. Many were also completely unable to even name the President of the EU.
See YouTube. It’s hilarious.
I see you held back with your views on the behaviour of these several hundred thugs that were fighting the police. That’s the new extreme left-wing fascism with the boot boys division of Momentum. Fascism of course originates from the left-wing as was the case in Spain in the early 1930’s. History always repeats itself.
The majority of the country have better things to do than worry about immigrants all the time. They are largely not on everyone’s direct radar and why should they be. Most people are not interested except with the certainty that they receive housing, regular money, and they get to practise their religions in peace. What more do they need? Why do you want to stir up an imaginary virtue signalling hornets nest about it? There’s nothing much more we can do for them except encourage them to get on with their lives just like everybody else. These people are of no particular concern at this moment. I don’t quite see your correlation with Islam in reference to Brexit. In case you didn’t realise UK takes economic migrants from all over the EU. These people of the Islamic faith do not fall under that criteria as they come from further away. For your information a number of Islamic people voted for Brexit.
I don’t think over half of the nation voted Brexit with anything to do with fascism in mind. This is the sort of hate speech that society at large is trying to stamp out. It is not illegal to have an opinion about a political topic. People do not want to surrender all of their country’s sovereignty to a foreign entity. It is illegal now to slander people with accusations of belonging to extremist groups. You might want to reign that uncontrolled reaction of yours in a bit as it’s offensive.
I also don’t understand your wording here with “you got this” etc. You don’t know what I got. I don’t discuss my own personal views. Although I do readily admit to dislike of Guy Verhofstadt, he’s an appalling individual and a true fascist in the true sense of the term.
I simply corrected you of the numbers at a family march last weekend, advised you of Jones’s loss of integrity and corrected you on several of your bogus claims. It seems a never ending chore and a thankless task.
I don’t care what people do or what they want, just as long as it’s fair play and completely democratic.
The majority of Brexiteers were very focussed on immigrants. They had the tabloids constantly going on about it. They had the threat of 5 million Turks coming over!
Get real! Racism was a big element in the vote! You reveal yourself in your own statement. You contradict yourself.
Of course the fascists homed in on the discontent and fuelled it. That’s why we have the rise of fascist groups like Tommy Robinson and popularist leaders!
Get real Sal. At least admit it!
No! you are completely wrong again. You have a really bad habit of obscuring the factual reality with your own misconceived and downright incorrect misunderstanding. You have pieced together little bits of hearsay, propaganda bullshit and come up with what you perceive to be the case. No matter how many times you are told not to put a plastic bag over your head, up you pop again with a plastic bag over your head. The proverbial nutter.
Firstly, you were all over the shop with last weeks Robinson march that you amazingly confused with a “public demonstration”. What’s laughable is your complete failure to understand that these people have nothing to demonstrate about as Brexit is going to happen. This was just Robinson’s pre-Xmas “thank you for your support” get together jolly for his supporters. It was a family affair party atmosphere all singing songs!
It’s the other lot, the Reaminers that have been commandeered by the Antifa thugs (half of them are only there for a barny with the police and haven’t a clue) that do the demonstrating. In as little as two and a half months they went from 700,000 to 500 or so. Call it a thousand to avoid criticism of undermining their presence. That’s a considerable fall.
You said all this crap: — The majority of Brexiteers were very focussed on immigrants. They had the tabloids constantly going on about it. They had the threat of 5 million Turks coming over!
Get real! Racism was a big element in the vote! You reveal yourself in your own statement. You contradict yourself.
Of course the fascists homed in on the discontent and fuelled it. That’s why we have the rise of fascist groups like Tommy Robinson and popularist leaders!
Get real Sal. At least admit it! —-.
You will have to provide evidence of when I have revealed myself of any racism. You won’t find any because it won’t have happened.
I have read before about all these traits of defence that some lefties reduce themselves to – such as constant abusive accusations of racism and Islamophobia. It’s seemingly very easy to do and it very much looks to me that you have become something of an expert. It’s a pity that you are seemingly unable to cook up any original coherent thoughts, but can only resort to low intellect level leftist-shill stupidity.
Turkey is not an EU member, which by definition makes any entry into UK as an economic migrant impossible. Secondly, Turkey is not at war, so there is no cause for refugees. Thirdly, Turkey is not committing any known acts of atrocity towards any sub-sects, or backlash with religious tyranny, so there’s no refugees with that either.
In summary, nope, nothing to do with Turkey. Turkey has a population of 80 million, so your figure of 5 million, which represents an above the 5% of population level is highly unlikely. That’s a very figure indeed.
Turkey’s potential entry into the EU is programmed for around 2035, in case you didn’t know and I don’t think you did.
It’s an extremely racist point of view you have there concerning your allegations of racism. I don’t know anybody who voted for Brexit on the grounds of any racist ideology. There probably were some. All I know about is to do with sovereignty and economic policy. Sorry, I can’t help you with anything to do with your general accusations of racism.
Tommy Robinson has been around for many years before any thoughts of Brexit. I suggest you address your knowledge of recent events. As far as everybody knows because it’s all he talks about, Tommy Robinson and his friends became very pissed off with the deluge of Islamic people coming to Luton, not integrating then forming groups that proceeded to provide accommodation facilities for the organised rape of young, underage, white girls. If it wasn’t for Robinson and others efforts to uncover this abomination happening in our society as perpetrated by gangs of immigrants, perhaps the authorities would not have been quite so quick to latch on to the fact that this was a UK wide problem, a very serious problem, to the extent that no less than 1,500 cases were discovered in the small town of Rotherham. The CPS are presently sifting through charge sheets of thousands of immigrant Asian men.
It is unfortunate that many of these men accused of such wicked behaviour all seem to be Pakistani and of the Muslim faith. I don’t think it should be regarded as anything to do with fascism were one to voice complaint about this situation. Politics has no place in relation to the raping of children.
That said, apparently it is written in the Qu’ran that it is permissible to rape non-Islamic children and to engage in the tradition of Bacha Bazi. We have as yet to even begin to tackle the abhorrent nature of Bacha Bazi in the UK.
I doubt you will know what this is.
Lol Sal – yes of course – no mention in your replies of anything that could be Islamophobic (do you read what you write?). Red through your last post with its diatribe against Muslims – you know – the rapists, child rapers and rapers of young boys by older men.
Much as I despise Islam the Muslims I know and have known do not follow these practices and neither do the majority of Muslims.
The Front pages of tabloids in run up to the referendum were saying about Turkey getting in the EU and flooding us with 5 million immigrants. Didn’t you read it? I did!
Brexit is by no means a done deal. There is a growing chance that it won’t happen at all. The population as a whole have come to their senses with a clear majority in favour of remaining and the politicians are heading for a deadlock. If we have a People’s Vote we will likely remain in and reverse the silly decision. Most people don’t seem to like the idea of fucking up their future. We’ll see.
But then you people who are so keen on democracy do not seem keen on voting. That’s ironic isn’t it?
Opher – g’day from Australia. As an Englishmen who hasn’t shed all his roots, I still keep in touch with UK’s finest political speakers. Jocob Rees-Mogg is without doubt one of them. Without any need of any criticism of what you have so far said, I’d just like to refer you to this brand new piece of film that was posted up on YouTube last week. It should put an end to ill conceived notions about tax cuts for the rich. Back in the 1970-80’s, I used to have to pay a ridiculous amount of tax which is why I emigrated for taxation sanity.
Ho Ho – merry Christmas!
No. You made a claim that Islamophobia was a key factor issue towards a lot of people voting for Brexit. I didn’t agree with that at all.
I explained to you what the root source of Tommy Robinson’s cause was, not my own!
It was Robinson and co who were responsible in bringing the rape gang problem to the attention of his local authority. It is not anything to do with racism or Islamophobia on my part. Obviously not. You are absolutely crazy dangerous with all that accusation stuff. I said before that it was the first port of call for loser leftist shills who can’t debate, that they implement the racism charges in the hope that it may stick. Well, damn you buster. You will not find one personal comment from me in that vain. Not one.
What’s wrong with you? Concentrate on the words as written!
You won’t know what practices any Muslim person practices in private.
No, I don’t read tabloids. I know what’s going on. I’m a senior accountant with the civil service. I am fully aware of the threshold requirement on Turkey and the forecast of their entry level status. It’s many years away. It had nothing to do with Brexit voters.
I happened to read another of your political posts as I wanted to see if you were in fact as off the wall with reality as many of your comments suggest. It just so happens that in some other post you flatly denied that Turkey was anything of any consideration to the EU and went on to state that “they would never be members of the EU”. It would seem that you have since had a complete reversal with that opinion. There’s nothing wrong with changing one’s mind over a matter per se, but to be so gung ho with it is somewhat disingenuous of you. From dismissal level to 100% ammunition level is indeed quite a turnaround. Are you always so volatile?
I do not agree with your statements. I don’t know of anybody in my unit, there’s 68 of them, who wish to see any change. There will be no such thing as a people’s vote. I can assure you that if on the extreme chance there was to be, the civil service as a whole would shut shop in disgust and not comply with directives to prepare for such. There wouldn’t be so much as one ballot paper printed. There wouldn’t be so much as one eligible voters listing printed. Nothing concerning any voting would be leaving central HQ offices in anything like the timely manner required.
We have democracy and we had the vote. The decision was made. It was final and legally binding. The next stage will not be any ballot people’s vote but a Strasbourg court case calling for consideration towards the legality to interfere and prevent the will of the people. Following that there will be criminal charges laid against persons who constructed such illegality.
I don’t think anybody has actually thought about that too much as yet, least of all you.
Opher- you are a very confounding person. I can honestly say that I think Sal Meiners is informed on a level that you simply cannot compete with. He has offered forth factual circumstances one after another all of which is quality based and of utmost integrity and relevance to the debate. Whereas, all you seemingly are capable of at best is producing personal interpretations and at worst resorting to completely unwarranted slanderous insults. There’s one thing wearing a party badge, it’s quite another being blindly ignorant of the highly visible and obvious. You’re like that drunk priest in Father Ted, who when awakened shouts “Drink, drink!” and no idea what’s happening. You should pay better attention as you let a lot of good information go whistling past you in haste to make silly insult.
Yet you are the blog holder? I honestly know for a fact that I’ve not come across that before.
I wasn’t at or ever go to any marches. But I would say from watching quite a few of the films made by attendees and watchers, there’s no doubts that Jones told a load of babble. It’s quite silly that you just couldn’t take on board the reports. It’s also very true that Jones did receive a very severe reprimand from the public media at large for his disgracefully false and unfair reporting. He is a very bad loser and all and all a very average human being.
I live in the north east of England. I take exception to many of the Remainers who make claim that the majority who voted for Brexit did so for reasons of racism. No, you are wrong. Dead wrong in fact. We, my town did so because we want our fishing back. We want to stop our town crumbling into dust because some wanker bleeding-hearted lefties say we shouldn’t leave the EU. We’re leaving the EU and that’s final. If there’s any disruption to that I think it’s safe to assume a lot pf people’s lives might be in a spot of imminent danger for the foreseeable future. I would not be walking about the north east with a Remainer badge and a smile on my face, if I were them. These are going to be very dangerous times for many people if Brexit gets messed with. They think the struggle will all be political. No it won’t. It will much more simple than that. It will be us versus them, one on one.
There’s an old adage that says beware the silent majority. There’s another that says democracy must prevail and be treated with the utmost respect. If we lose respect for democracy then we lose respect for each other. When that happens then the gloves come off and people get hurt. If I were Jones, in my pocket would already be a one-way ticket to Vanuatu.
Ho-ho – fascists hunt in packs under many names! Beware the callous, the heartless, selfish, greedy and uncaring who make excuses for the mayhem and threaten violence – they are despicable.
If the cap fits.
No doubt you watched Owen Jones’ wonderful performance on the recent edition of BBC’s This Week. Judging that I think it’s safe to say that any credibility he had has now been destroyed and he managed to do that all by himself.
Never saw it Sal.
I think Bliar did the trick for many remainers. When this loathsome creature stepped forward and made comments about another referendum, I think something twigged into some remainers heads that this was not DEMOCRACY. Therefore, in spite of what they feel, they are deciding to vote brexit now just for the principle of democracy, not what they selfishly want, like that swine Bliar. Gives me hope for the future that there are people that still put democracy above all else. Decent folk.
They are outside parliament demonstrating about it. Imagine that, remainers demonstrating that brexit must happen to protect democracy. Watch them here:
Old Corbyn’s going to get a bollocking from Bercow following him getting caught mouthing “stupid woman”. So he is exactly what I thought he was – a bigoted misogynist sexist woman hater. I hate the sight of him, he’s a revolting creepy looking creature.
Hi Mag – well to start with May is a pathetic stupid woman who has made a complete mess of the whole Brexit business and is busy fucking up the rest of the country too. I think everything is in crisis because of her stupid policies.
You can’t get much more stupid than that.
Her party have been incredibly stupid behind her. They are as responsible as she is for the colossal mess.
I don’t know – and neither does anybody else (even the lip-readers) – if Jeremy said woman or people and I really don’t much care. At the time May was being farcical, treating the most serious business as a pantomime. She deserved a good kicking (verbally). The House of Commons is like a kindergarten. It is appalling. If ever anybody was being stupid it was her and the rabble behind her.
Jeremy is not a misogynist. It is daft to suggest he is. He has always been honourable and stood against sexism and racism. I think you are letting your prejudice show. You might not like him but his record is clear. He is a man of integrity.
I completely disagree. May could never be expected to please everybody, it was never going to happen. It really doesn’t matter anyway one way or another what Corbyn thinks as he’s so far removed from the process. All he can do is make a pest of himself.
Integrity? With his all pals act with IRA and inviting them to parliament for tea shortly after the Brighton bomb.
Then his frequent dealings with Hamas, followed by his activities with the Momentum crowd making all these anti-Semitic facebook posts on Palestine LIVE.
You possess a very selective perception of intergrity.
I think you’ve confused him with somebody else.
Mag – you are certainly not exercising your brain. May should at the start have created a cross-party group to look at Brexit instead of siding with the extremists who had no hope of getting consensus. Then she should have held off starting the process until they had an idea of what they were after. She was a prize twat of the first degree. Stupid isn’t the word.
As for Jeremy – meeting with terrorists is necessary if one is to make progress. Thatcher did it with the IRA and talks have been ongoing with Hamas. I think you are being naïve.
Opher: Looks like your faculty to understand was damaged with extreme-left Momentum propaganda.
You seemingly haven’t got much idea about Corbyn. He’s as slippery as a snake.
He’s a political nightmare for the Labour Party and we’ve lost a huge number of traditional votes because of his history of activities.
I don’t care for the extreme sector of Labour and I believe you have strong interests there.
The following will prove proof positive the extent of your shortcomings with the facts as all you have done is recite the hard-nosed populist extreme left. You are seemingly completely reliant on being fed tit-bits of sound bites with all this cross-party talk invented by people with their nose out of joint because they’re completely unimportant to the process of negotiation. People like that gimp Lloyd Russell-Moyle, an elitist Labourite with his double barrelled name.
May is PM, not some junior back-bencher. She had sided with nobody from the Brexit side because she herself voted Remain. You should know this already.
How could she have held off when the conditions of referendum result dictated due process? She was in no position to hold off. This isn’t some wooly committee of liberal do-gooders. Nothing was up for discussion. The consensus of opinion had been taken. She didn’t need a cross-party opinion.
What difference would any cross-party group be when all terms for Brexit are dictated by the EU Commission? You need to understand that.
All May could do her end was exercise UK’s right to trigger Article 50, which under EU rules legislates for legal process withdrawal. What follows is all dictated by the EU.
They do know what they are after, it’s called OUT.
You are seemingly not quite up to date with the last statement from Juncker before the EU parliament shut shop for xmas. He clearly stated that he wanted to know what UK wants as the EU is unable to know that. So that’s what May will be dealing with first thing.
In 1984, Corbyn was an absolute nobody. He was still into his Marxist thing doing anything he could that he could get away with that was anti-establishment. He really had no business messing about with the IRA. They must have thought he was a loose canon mental case. The proverbial loony left.
Jeremy Corbyn’s views on Northern Ireland have been the subject of much discussion.
It’s no secret that the Labour leader has long supported the end of British rule in Ulster, and that he met the leaders of Sinn Fein and other Republicans in the 1980s and 1990s, when the Provisional IRA was still bombing and shooting people.
Judging by some of the reaction on social media there is still some confusion about exactly what Mr Corbyn said and did during the Troubles.
Did Corbyn really vote for the Good Friday Agreement?
People are getting confused between the Anglo-Irish Agreement, which Corbyn voted and spoke against, and the Good Friday Agreement.
The Anglo-Irish Agreement was signed by the British government of Margaret Thatcher and her Irish counterpart Garret Fitzgerald in 1985, and is seen by some as an important stepping-stone in the peace process.
But at the time, the treaty was opposed by many unionists as well as Sinn Fein and the IRA, and it failed to stop paramilitary violence in the province.
Corbyn voted against it and spoke against it in parliament, saying: “We believe that the agreement strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a United Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”
The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 was a deal involving London, Dublin and most Northern Ireland parties including Sinn Fein and unionist parties also linked to paramilitary groups.
It had a much more dramatic effect on reducing violence and is considered by many to mark the effective end of the Troubles.
Jeremy Corbyn welcomed the agreement and along with the vast majority of MPs in Westminster, he endorsed it by voting for the Northern Ireland Bill in July 1998, saying: “We look forward to peace, hope and reconciliation in Ireland in the future.”
Has he refused to condemn the IRA?
Corbyn has given interviews in which he has been challenged to condemn the IRA’s campaign of violence unequivocally – without equating it to other parties involved in the conflict – and has declined to do so.
He was repeatedly asked if he condemned IRA violence specifically in an interview with BBC Radio Ulster in 2015, but answered by saying “I condemn all bombing” and then: “I condemn what was done by the British Army as well as the other sides as well.”
In a more recent interview with Sophy Ridge of Sky News, he again offered a general condemnation of violence but refused to single out republican paramilitaries, saying: “I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA.”
The day after this interview, PoliticsHome quoted Mr Corbyn’s team as saying that IRA murders should be condemned unequivocally, and that “the IRA clearly committed acts of terrorism”.
Obviously other people had to perform damage limitation for him. Says a lot about him.
Did Corbyn meet IRA members?
It’s well known that Corbyn met with Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams regularly at the height of the Troubles in the 1980s.
This was considered controversial at the time, although there was nothing illegal in the meetings and Mr Corbyn consistently said he maintained links with Sinn Fein to work for a resolution to the armed conflict.
It is now known that the British government maintained contact to the IRA leadership through a secret back channel for much of this period too. Which automatically negates any of Corbyn’s activity carrying any authority as he had ingratiated himself under the pretext of some kind of self-appointed grandiose entity.
The Labour leader has been less forthcoming about his contact with people actually convicted of terror offences, although some of these meetings are well documented too.
In October 1984, two weeks after an IRA bomb killed five at the Tory Party conference in Brighton, Corbyn invited convicted IRA volunteers Linda Quigley and Gerry MacLochlainn to the House of Commons. It caused uproar at the time.
But in an interview with the BBC’s Andrew Neil in May 2017, Corbyn said: “I never met the IRA. I obviously did meet people from Sinn Fein, as indeed I met people from other organisations, and I always made the point that there had to be a dialogue and a peace process.”
During another May 2017 interview with ITV’s Robert Peston, he said: “I have not spoken to the IRA… I’ve met former prisoners who told me they were not in the IRA.”
It’s not clear whether MacLochlainn and Quigley fall into this category.
It is fair to say that Corbyn has campaigned on behalf of people like the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, who were convicted of terrorism, only for the convictions to be overturned later.
And of course, Northern Ireland’s unusual history means that many people convicted of serious crimes during the conflict were either elected politicians at the time or became so later.
Corbyn’s learned how to mask his clandestine activities with smoke and mirrors verbage.
Has he ever condoned or supported violence?
Corbyn has consistently said he is against violence and wanted to see an end to the armed conflict in Northern Ireland.
Some have accused him of involvement in a notorious edition of the magazine London Labour Briefing which appeared to praise or make light of the 1984 Brighton conference bombing.
The editorial board said that “the British only sit up and take notice when they are bombed into it” and saw fit to include a number of jokes about the attack sent in by readers.
The extent of Corbyn’s personal involvement in this issue of the magazine remains unclear.
He has been described by several sources as being either a member of the editorial board of the magazine and its general secretary.
But in May 2017 he said “I read the magazine. I wrote for the magazine. I was not a member of the editorial board. I didn’t agree with it. I don’t agree with that position.”
Some critics insist he had a closer relationship with the magazine than this suggests, as it is known that he was involved with it’s distribution.
Corbyn was seen in the company of both Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness at Tony Benn’s funeral.
Whereas Thatcher was the PM. There’s a very big difference there as she had political entitlement that to this day Corbyn has still not come close to achieving.
In 1981 Thatcher sent hand written notes during the hunger strikes.
in 1984 Thatcher held secret talks with Garrett Fitzgerald which led up the 1985 Anglo-Irish Agreement.
1n 1994 Thatcher gave her personal approval to secret talks with IRA and Sinn Fein, four years before the cease fire.
Corbyn has no business at all dealing with Hamas.
You statement about talks have been ongoing with Hamas are completely untrue and tantamount to exactly what fake news is all about.
In fact, Jack Straw, former UK Foreign Secretary has stated that his willingness to talk to the Palestinian faction led to his sacking in 2006.
Nobody from any government was holding any talks with Hamas, least of all writing facebook posts of anti-Semitic vitriol with other members of Momendum and posting them daily on the anti-Israel media division Palestine LIVE.
I get the impression I know a great deal more about any of this than you ever will.
If in the future, you feel that you are in any way match fit for debate, do let me know.
Hi Mag – g’day from Australia.
Who would want to debate with you guys? Lol. What more is there to say? I read with interest what both yourself and Sal Meiners have had to say and it’s given me a great deal to mull over and think about. I appreciate being able to read stuff that is straight up and not cloaked in political barbs pretending to be commentary but in fact just more floppy propaganda. There’s a heck of a lot of truth in all your posts here. Thanks for your efforts.
Mag – sorry I missed you post. I’d just like to applaud you for the above well considered and informative post.