It seems to me that the intention of terrorism is to destabilise. It sets out to cause disruption and chaos out of all proportion to the level of actual harm. By committing high-profile atrocities of horrific nature it creates fear and a feeling of threat far in excess of reality.
That is what ISIS, Boko Haram, A Qaeda, the Taliban and other related groups deliberately set out to do.
The twin towers, beheadings, crucifixion, burning people alive, barbaric torture, kidnapping, bombing young kids at concerts, knifings, suicide bombings and grotesque medieval style callous murders were all aimed to draw maximum attention and create fear and panic.
That was their intent. The actual numbers of Westerners killed in these horrific acts were really quite small. But the impact was enormous.
The Western response was out of all proportion. Invasion, war and conflict. Just what the terrorists wanted. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Syria and others. All fertile ground for recruitment. It fitted their rhetoric. Islam was under attack. There was a Jihad. It had to be protected against crusader attack. It worked.
Western Muslims were recruited, became militant and a new era of extreme Islam was spawned.
The wars generated huge instability and hatred in Arab countries. It created mass migration. Again playing into the hands of the radicalised extremists.
Faced with this wave of mass migration and radical Islam coupled with the terrorist threats the West became even more defensive. Islamophobia came to the fore. Muslims were a threat to the West. They were swamping us. They were intent on bringing in Sharia law. They were harbouring terrorists.
Tolerance and compassion went out the window. There were the rise of fascist groups and extreme right-wingers in Europe and the States. The anti-immigrant, Islamophobic propaganda exaggerated the problems and created a narrative around terrorism, rapists, sharia law, burqas, niqabs, mosques and birth rates. Instead of dealing with the genuine problems created by mass immigration and radicalisation we moved towards anger and rejection. Muslims became isolated and perceived as the enemy. Once again playing into the hands of the radicalised extremists. Recruitment was easy. Ostracised youth felt rejected, angry and filled with hate. They were easy prey for propaganda. It was easy to portray the West as crusaders wanting to eradicate Islam.
The end result was the election of Trump and the Brexit vote, the rise of right-wing groups across Europe and in the USA and the resultant division, chaos and hatred.
What did the terrorists set out to achieve? They set out to weaken the West, cause chaos, destabilise democracy, break alliances and sow the seeds of our destruction.
Well it looks to me as if they have succeeded hands down!
The US is divided with hatred and tribalism. The post-truth era is creating instability and doubt in democracy.
The UK is enfeebled by Brexit.
The EU is enfeebled by Brexit.
There is rampant Islamophobia.
Mass migration had created turmoil with no coherent plan.
Fascism is once more a potent force.
Alliances such as NATO are weakened.
Liberalisation, tolerance and compassion are in retreat.
We are wallowing in nationalism, extremism and racism.
The terrorists have succeeded in fermenting chaos, destabilising democracy and weakening the West.
What a mess we have made of it all so far. But Hey – I reckon we can weather the stupidities of Trump and Brexit, deal with mass migration, rebuild our alliances, re-establish truth, become stable again, re-establish our trading arrangements to create prosperity, see off nationalism and regain our liberal policies, tolerance and compassion. This is just a nasty blip.
Let me correct you on that detail.
70,600 global attacks in the last six years
In 2017 there were 50 serious level attacks across Europe
Only 2 were not related to radicalised Islam
You see, even this situation has been sanitised and air-brushed for you.
After all, they wouldn’t be wanting us to be getting all upset about it.
Relax, everything will be quite alright, won’t it…
I think you will find that the vast majority of those attacks globally are sectarian shia and sunni. Not sanitised. They attacks in the West are horrific but without too many deaths.
Please my friend, I’m trying to help you here.
You’re pissing into the wind.
Some of us live and breathe this. A great deal of activity is withheld from mainstream media or decisions made not to report as they can’t allow too many reports too often from the same area. You need to understand that.
Yes of course some will be sectarian, that’s a daily guarantee.
The many other thousands are not.
So Eric – how many have been killed in the West?
What sort of question is that? Is that supposed to – in your view – do justice to your misinformed information? It does not.
It’s really not a dead body count game. A dead body really isn’t worth anymore than a maimed body. I don’t count individual deaths.
Death tally’s per attack are determined by several factors and some are more successful than others for a variety of reasons. It’s the fact that these attacks occur in ever escalating numbers that is of concern.
Nobody I know visits Manchester Arena and thinks this place holds 10,000 and they only killed 23 and injured 80. It’s cool, no worries.
No Opher, it’s not about how many so far. It’s actually about how many will there be.
All you describe is simply surface slush. It’s visible residue. Any of us can recognise it.
(except you’re incorrect on Yemen, as that’s very much a Saudi atrocity, although we happen to sell them the weaponry)
All you need to know is summarised as: AGENDA 21.
It’s the pertinent question that throws everything into relief. The number killed is small (relatively) and totally out of proportion to the fear and threat. Cars are a far greater threat than terrorists.
The fact that you evade it says everything. You know I’m right. The terrorists win by creating terror – a threat out of proportion to reality.
ISIS and Islamic radicalised extremists are scum – but they are not a huge problem.
No, nothing of the sort. I know that you are entirely wrong. It’s not about numbers killed, it’s about numbers involved. So you daughter comes home from a night out (eventually) minus an arm, that’s OK then because she didn’t die? And you think you’re right?
I really don’t think so.
I’m not in the least bit interested in populist views and populist commentary such as what is proportional fear and threat. The fact that you fail to ascertain the severity of the number of attacks is your problem.
You are subject to no accurate information whatsoever.
I haven’t evaded anything. I gave you an extremely accurate tally of attacks.
OK, if it’s not a huge problem, answer this for me if you can.
How many Muslim individuals are currently under the scrutiny of the MI5 in UK?
(well it would be UK as it’s MI6 who do all elsewhere’s)
Eric – if my daughter came home maimed from a car accident, a criminal act, a work accident or a terrorist attack I’d be horrified and distraught.
There were 1792 deaths from road accidents in 2016
there are around 6000 deaths from home accidents a year
5190 people were killed at work in 2016
126 people died between 2000-2017 from all terrorism – that’s less than 8 a year.
Do try to keep things in proportion. Terrorism works by keeping an exaggerated fear because the acts are so awful. But the threat is tiny and not worth worrying your head over. It’s being used by politicians and racists to ratchet up fear and hate for their own ends.
You know already without question that car accidents, work accidents and general anything accidents are…yes, I knew you’d got it…accidents. They do not relate.
They are not an intentional act.
There’s a buzz word or term in full use today to describe your malaise. It’s Cognitive Dissonance.
Right this moment there are – as I previously asked you if you knew but chose to avoid and talk about motorway pileups instead – some 20,000 persons under active surveillance. That’s unfortunately Muslim persons, mostly males aged 18-25.
Some 3,500 others have been deported so far this year.
Would you be able to tell me how many other planned attacks were foiled due to constructive success with reconnaissance and infiltration?
Every year the numbers under detection as viewed as dangerous almost doubles.
I doubt very much if that has anything to do with attempts to ratchet up fear and hate for anybody’s ends.
You wish for things to be kept in proportion, yes? Well they are and to the tune of 20,000 being watched. That’s not exaggeration. But it is fear.
I don’t worry my head. But you might well do as you seemingly have no inkling as to what’s coming.
It’s always refreshing to see a hyper tolerant liberal who’s willing to sacrifice your family, your friends, and your lifestyle, to his vision of the world.
I know very well what is going on in antiterrorism.
But I find this irrelevant. We all know there are terrorists of the Islamic persuasion, right-wingers, left-wingers and various other nutcases. The Islamic situation has blown up because of the wars in the Middle East and immigration. Those terrorists are being successfully dealt with. The majority of Muslims do not either condone or support them.
The very, very last thing we need are any more “regain our liberal policies”.
For crying out loud – are you insane?
Suspected of being a shoulder surfer
But he didn’t know from shit
About challenge response systems
Well you might not want your freedoms but I do. You might want people to dictate your morality but I don’t. You might want to restrict what other people do but I don’t. I value my liberty and freedoms. I want a compassionate, tolerant society that respects others who are different.
When I watch videos from the 70’s or before it’s so depressing seeing how “culturally enriched” we are now. I love Birmingham being majority non white with cultures that don’t mix. I love feeling like an outsider in the country generations of my family have lived in. I love being at work and having Eid celebrations shoved down our throats.
Suspected of being a shoulder surfer
But he didn’t know from shit
About challenge response systems
Well firstly – there are levels of immigration that bring enrichment. When it becomes too much, where people feel displaced, it is obviously too much.
The problem is a lack of integration and that is down to politicians to create the right policies and they have failed.
Secondly – nothing should be shoved down people’s throats.
Nobody should ever feel like an outsider in their own country and there should be mixing of cultures. That seems healthy and enriching to me.
Politicians need to get it right – the right amount of immigration and the correct policies to ensure integration.
There are big problems today but it is still a lot better than the racist, arrogant monoculture that I grew up with in the fifties and sixties. That was stifling.
Spare me, there is nothing you can say or attempt to convey to me that I haven’t thought about, heard or seen a million times. I live in Birmingham. Have you ANY ideas of what’s happened here in England’s 2nd largest city? I read you live around tiny little Hull. Give me a break mister. You want to come round here and see what’s so bloody “healthy and enriching”. Even your choice of expressive language makes me want to barf. How dare you get so precious and condescending. Like I should think myself lucky for such cultural enrichment. What’s healthy about something rammed down your throat? What’s healthy about being blocked by laws that don’t allow you to complain? It not a case of your “nobody should ever feel…”, it’s all too fucking late for that isn’t it. It’s carved into stone now isn’t it! I don’t think you have the remotest grasp as to the magnitude of events here. Not a morsel have you. You really need to educate yourself, because it’s bloody dreadful here now, just dreadful and I’m living in a horrible and completely anti-social environment surrounded by people that really shouldn’t have left their desert. What’s healthy and enriching about people that bring customs and practices from the third world? I’ve got a house around the corner that apparently does some female genital cutting and an ex Post Office down the road that’s now an “Islamic Cultural Centre”, yes, I know, that apparently holds the Sharia Court. Yup, I’m full on “heathy and enriched” alright, aren’t I? Thanks for that.
Your people’s “liberal policies” have fucked us backwards into submission to the extent that such levels of immigration is nothing close to any “enrichment”, but suffocating the shit out of us. Integration has nothing to do with politicians. Don’t use that old failed excuse…again. We’ve all got the t-shirt on that one round here. Integration has everything to do with the basic desire to embrace another culture. That isn’t going to happen when that is profoundly denied because of religious restrictive practices. Basically, we have the wrong kind of immigration with the wrong type of religious practice. We’re on a total loser.
Did you actually say 50’s and 60’s? Are you kidding me? Is that the level of your interpretation and understanding with this? Fifty years-old comparisons? Then you really have a problem. What you experienced in the 50s and 60s is nothing like today. You think like that’s the way it is because you live where you’re living and that isn’t Birmingham. Screw your head on will you.
Suspected of being a shoulder surfer
But he didn’t know from shit
About challenge response systems.
The header content contained this:
“By committing high-profile atrocities of horrific nature it creates fear and a feeling of threat far in excess of reality.”
Your reality must be a whole lot different than mine. Your reality must obviously provide adequate allowances for atrocities of horrific nature. Mine does not.
John I do not condone or fail to be horrified by the atrocities carried out by these perverted monsters. What I am saying is that we need to keep it in proportion. The risk of being killed by terrorism are extremely small.
If I was to go into depth about the horror of a road accident it would be equally chilling. You are thousands of times more likely to suffer that.
The fear these monsters generate is out of proportion to the actual threat.
There were 1792 deaths from road accidents in 2016
there are around 6000 deaths from home accidents a year
5190 people were killed at work in 2016
126 people died between 2000-2017 from all terrorism – that’s less than 8 a year.
Wouldn’t it just be better all round to just tell them to f-off. Scoop em all up, ship out back to their deserts and let them sort themselves out. Then I can go to the Bataclan, that I’ve been to a dozen times and MEN arena again for gigs without shitting myself everytime?
Well I go to loads of gigs, including the MEN arena, and I’ve never been shitting myself. There’s more risk of getting killed on the journey rather than the concert.
So using the same logic and stereotyping are you suggesting that we gather up all the right-wingers, who are responsible for numerous terrorist attacks, and dump them somewhere? Then perhaps we could move on to the environmentalists, the radical feminists, the anarchists, the left-wing extremists, the Jewish extremists, Hindus, Jamaicans (because of the Yardies) and in fact anyone involved with crime of any description. Dump them all. Then we’d have a perfect society.
But no – you weren’t suggesting we ship just the terrorists were you? – All Arabs. So, using the same principle we should dump all the foreigners, those of colour, religious people, including all the Catholics with their kiddie-fiddling priests, all the women, and all those who have voted Conservative or Labour or is concerned with the environment. That’d do it.
Opher,
In retrospect we should have used this kind of logic to instruct us on the best course of action, if any, as all such activity pales into insignificance when analysed against numbers of road deaths. How stupid of us to concern ourselves to any extent with such trifling and unimpressive low numbers of dead and injured.
We should never have reacted to Hamilton’s massacre of tiny-tots school children and just left gun laws as they were.
The FBI shouldn’t have bothered themselves after the Atlanta Oympics car park nail bomb because only 1 died and the over a hundred injured didn’t matter. The bomber’s three other bombs at abortion clinics and a lesbian night club didn’t kill anybody, so were unimportant.
London Transport needn’t have introduced any kinds of additional security procedures following only 52 killed in a bomb explosion.
The security forces should never have revised surveillance studies after the mistaken execution of the Brazilian boy Menezes on the Stockwell train.
UK Airport security should never have changed anything to do with airport security after the 2005 London terrorist attacks. All this endless baggage checking and screening of passengers is a complete waste of time.
International Air Traffic Control should never have upgraded air traffic safety procedures in light of jet planes being stolen from airdromes and high-jacked mid-air.
Private airport security should have remained the same as the chances of aircraft being stolen to be used to fly into commercial flights is negligible.
Interpol should never have bothered increasing it’s European control centres by four-fold to cope with the screening and surveillance of suspected persons.
Entertainment centres shouldn’t bother with frisking people and checking all bags upon entry to venues. Why do we need all these people that are the reasons for all our tickets doubling in price.
The Home Office is wasting its time with organising the deportation of persons suspected as a risk. Being a risk doesn’t really add up to much.
We should keep things in proportion and not be so over-reactive.
LOL Icarus. I think you have deliberately misunderstood haven’t you? I did not say there wasn’t a threat and I did not suggest we didn’t have to take measures to deal with the threat. As you can see those measures are very effective. The number of attacks are very few.
What I am saying is that we need to keep it in proportion. The actual threat to the public is very small indeed – as a result of those measures.
The overreactions are such things as invading a number of countries that had nothing to do with the terrorism – such as Iraq – and stirring up further radicalisation and more terrorism.
Bush in particular caused more problems by his reaction to 9/11 than he solved. The War on Terrorism backfired badly.
The way we played into the terrorists hands resulted in more terrorism and has badly damaged our own democracies and destabilised us. Trump and Brexit are the result and that is just what the terrorists wanted. That is why I suggest they have won. They have succeeded in generative fear in the public that is out of proportion to the risk and resulted in us destabilising our countries.
LOL, well that sums things up back to some reality.
So many Muslims are angry, resentful, hateful and predatory. They go to other countries and demand that everyone does what they want. They have so many that play the victim card and the race card and these idiot weak-minded liberals sway and collapse under the mental pressure with dealing with these accusations. They end agreeing to special treatment and special privileges.
I imagine a number of Muslims are furious and hate-filled. I would be if my house had been blown up and my family killed; if I see cities reduced to rubble. I might fall for the Crusader narrative.
Most immigrants just want to escape war and bring up their kids in safety with a future.
So Opher why is it you give a load of tosh with your figures.
You said the that 5,190 were killed at work in 2016.
Didn’t that figure strike you as being incredibly high?
That’s because it was and you lied – that figure was 137.
You lied by a factor of 5,053.
You have no credibility.
Yes, they are very effective. Yes, the numbers are very few.
And do you know why that is Opher?
Because we have thrown everything including the kitchen sink at it and it’s now one whopping massive industry. A massive industry that did not exist pre-2005.
Who gives a X what Bush did in 2001. Don’t give us that shit. For one you have no real ideas what Bush DID do in 2001. So why do you think it’s credible to give me your sappy half-knows ideas on this. Get some Xing facts.
Understand the scale of political Islamification being forced into Europe.
Understand the numbers piling into UK, particularly London and Midlands.
Where the fuck is Hull anyway?
Sorry – I inadvertently used the figures for the USA. 5,190 workers were killed on the job in 2016 [https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.nr0.htm] (3.6 per 100,000 full-time equivalent workers) — on average, more than 99 a week or more than 14 deaths every day.
Well I care what Bush did in 2001 because it has direct impact on what is happening today and the radicalisation of Islam. Of course I know what Bush did or are you going to come out with some shady conspiracy theory from some hate-filled right-wing propaganda site?
I look at the real figures. Islamification?? Really. We are being swamped are we??? There have been too many immigrants too quickly and it needs stopping but these fascist scare stories are not the way to do it. Just the Trump populist method of spreading fear and hate instead of realistically dealing with the problem.
Actually Opher, it was more a reaction to your under reaction and comatose and negligent assertion as to subsequent activity that is of paramount focus of attention following the understanding of the scale of the terrorist threat. An understanding appreciated by just about everybody. Evidently there are a few that do not.
Icarus – you talk rubbish. I think the initial reactions were all counterproductive – bombing countries and invading them did nothing to make the situation better. It exacerbated it. A gross overreaction.
The security forces have subsequently done a good job. The risk to the public is very small. There is no need, with the present level for anyone to worry unduly. The risk is tiny. As I said – terrorism always works by creating a fear that is out of proportion to the threat.
No I don’t buy into this paranoia that ISIS is smuggling huge numbers of terrorists into the country with the immigrants.
No I do not believe the majority of Muslims are radical and wanting to take over the country.
Yes we have had far too much immigration – mainly as a result of our belligerent policies in the Middle East.
No I’m not going to become racist and Islamophobic much as I detest religion and Islam in particular.
Yes Islam is an intolerant religion.
No I’m not going to allow terrorisms and Islamic immigration to make me callous, uncaring and to kill my compassion.
No I do not think Brexit or Trump are the answer.
Opher Lol.
Terrorism?
Trump was voted in because Americans were sick of an under performing economy and unemployment.
Brexit was voted for because of dogmatic EU law making enforced upon us and insane demands that we accept many hundreds of thousands of immigrants flooding into the country every year.
Suspected of being a shoulder surfer
But he didn’t know from shit
About challenge response systems.
I think you are much too simplistic on this. There were many reasons for the votes and terrorism was one of them. Without that it would not have happened. I would agree that the job situation created by globalisation and immigration were big factors.
Sorry wrong Opher. You THINK you know what Bush did, the fact is you DON’T. You got and are wholly reliant upon mainstream media reports after the fact. You “inadvertently” believed all they told you. Your must have cognitive difficulties somewhere along the line as you failed to deduce that all could not be correct with that road death figure so why should I be any more convinced with your grasp on anything else?
No, I need not come out with any such shady right-wing anything. Because I can quite easily promote the reality of the activities of the shady left-wing, namely, the psychotic Tony Blair’s of this world. Let that be an answer to any theoretical questions that you may have.
Yes, we are being swamped with Islamification. To the extent that we have laws imposed to prevent our protest. To the extent that in just ten years some 3,000 (three thousand) mosques have opened in UK, and we now have in total 3,500.
We now have a very insidious situation pervading our society that is cropping up in almost every town and it’s reached serious proportions. That of Muslim grooming gangs where the latest is in Portsmouth.
You must be living under a stone if you don’t get it. You obviously just don’t get it.
What “Trump populist method”? I’m living in f*****g Birmingham matey.
Are you completely stupid?
Yeah right – if I want to know what Bush really did I need to ask you.
Are you under the illusion that it’s only right-wingers responsible for terrorist attacks?
Interesting.
When was the last time you were at the MEN arena? The reason I’m asking is because whilst scooting around on another music blog thing of yours, I noticed a comment where you said that you didn’t go to these big gigs because the prices were too high and preferred to settle for £10 little club gigs. So I’d very much like to know your take on what you experienced at MEN recently. Incidentally, who was it you saw?
No I don’t tend to go to them but I’ve been to a few. Crosby Stills and Nash.
I see, five years ago! I don’t think you getting where I’m coming from.
Would you like to try and describe your experience at MEN Arena these days?
And also if you have any experience that is with taking your children / grandchildren to a concert there. I’d be most interested to learn of your observations.
I don’t tend to travel down to Manchester. I’ve been to stadia in Hull, Liverpool, Leeds and Birmingham to see the likes of Bob Dylan, Who, and Leonard Cohen. Not once did the fear of terrorism cross my mind. I wouldn’t have any compunctions about taking my grandchildren – they’re a bit young yet – and went to arena gigs with my children. The risk is incredibly small – not worth worrying about.
Opher, you reacted exactly as I thought that you might to avoid that question.
You really have no idea do you.
I see that you’re loading up pics of tiny gigs in empty local clubs.
That’s indicates the extent of your knowledge on this.
I go to a lot of gigs in small clubs. I prefer them. It certainly wasn’t empty! The Muffin Men pull in a good crowd. I can’t see how that informs the extent of my knowledge at all. Your paranoia is running away with you.
You haven’t answered the question. Comments about a tiny club with 67 people attending are irrelevant.
I had asked to of your experiences with attending MEN Arena TODAY, following the Ariana Grande pop concert terrorist massacre and if that visit also involved taking any children with you?
I had wanted to understand how you reacted to the situation and of course how your children reacted.
And if you think that’s a case of any “paranoia is running away with you.”, then you haven’t got any ideas at all of what you are talking about.
What stadia in Hull? The largest venue in Hull seats only 3,500. That’s the size of decent theatre. And you call that stadia?
You folks oop north are summit else at times, really…
Opher, I read that you must be 70 years old! Your comment about taking your children to arena gigs is completely stupid. How many decades ago was all that?
No wonder we’re having difficulty with this debate as it seems I’m dealing with a person who at best might be described as “doddery” and whose mind keeps flitting back forty years and can’t grasp the extent of the magnitude of changes that have occurred. Maybe best you just have a cup of tea and a muffin.
Silly boy – my children are in their thirties and forties. They are still my children and I often go to gigs with them. I think it’s you that’s doddery.
It’s obviously your paranoia and racism that is eroding your mind with fear. Never mind.
Never mind? There’s evidently very little left of yours in any working order. I’m silly? And you can’t differentiate between children and your adult off-spring who are in their thirties and forties? What, are they walking in with you and tightly grabbing daddy’s hand, looking up at you with inquisitively concerned faces asking why there are so many big men dressed in black in black helmets with big guns? You maybe know that kids pick up on that sort of thing – and I’m silly? Twat.
Eventually we got somewhere. So the bottom line for you Opher, is you’ve NOT been to the MEN for at least five years, you’ve NOT been with any youngsters and you’ve NOT got any ideas what its like to go there now. Couldn’t you just say that outright?
What’s racist about trying to wrangle the truth out of a truth evading squirmer?
What’s racist about hating all the security rigmarole?
What’s racist about being concerned about the fear factors all that security presence raises for your kids? Is that paranoia?
Your economy of the truth is an embarrassment with all the classic hallmarks of the lefty-apologist with accusations of “racist” that you people always use as they scurry out the door. It’s this kind of lack of moral compass that got us to where we are today. Blair couldn’t see the woods for the trees either.
Gosh you do talk rubbish.
That’s the sort of intellectual standard I more or less expected to receive from you here. I would have been stupid were I to expect you to think before you spoke.
If you can’t differentiate between your forty year old fully adult “child” and an eight years old child, then what’s to say?
You talk in forked-tongues like a slippery snake. You’re so dishonest and you’ve got fuck-all integrity about you. I don’t quite know what to think. I do know that you were being deliberately evasive because you have no idea what it’s like to attend the MEN today.
I’ll just pretend that today’s incident right outside parliament was of no importance. The fact that nobody died renders it completely unimportant – in your book.
Had that been a truck full explosives it would have been a different story.
The fact that the racist nutter doing it was another from Birmingham is no surprise although he was born here and only rocked up recently. I’d like to meet the tube who granted him citizenship. He was known to home security but not for terrorist related reasons. That still leaves 20,000 that are known of. Yup, no worries.
To John Mason
So reading between the lines we got some dude who cant see the difference between adults that are forty and arent any like children any more and still wants to call them children. Thats completely fucked up. Then the dudes not actually been to the venue for five years or after the bombing and he thinks he knows what its like to go there now with proper young chidren like eight-nine years old. Thats also completely fucked up. How the fuck do you talk to a dude as fucked up as that?
We tried it before and that was some crazy shit too.
They have beaten me, nearly killed me, but being this group are government the can get away with acts of terrorism https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18mtF3_4WB2u3mEe1OoSb2QpwlgvI25ulAS5BheCPq4Q/edit?usp=sharing