16 thoughts on “#AtoZChallenge — Up Around the Bend”

  1. Thanks for the reblog, Opher. I’m touched! You’re such a master at these posts. I DO so love CCR. I can’t sit still when I hear their music. BUT I must admit I like Tina’s version of Proud Mary best! 😀

    1. You are welcome. I like Creedence too! They are infectious aren’t they? I also prefer Tina’s version! Great minds think alike, eh?

  2. There certainly is a lot of infighting in some of these groups. I guess creativity sparks all kinds of disagreements.. At least that’s what I’m seeing in reading about some of them.

      1. Opher, I’m not too sure if you actually bothered to read the piece before making cold comments. It might be prudent to remind that was one of the problems for CCR – there was no money! They had long and protracted court battles with Fantasy Records.
        Fogerty also insisted on a democracy with song writing and performing songs – which also stumps any claims to any big egos. I’d also strongly disagree with any signs of sycophancy concerning these guys as they really did not get along at all well.
        Have you got the right band?

  3. X – my reply to Cheryl was generic. Read it.

    – There certainly is a lot of infighting in some of these groups. I guess creativity sparks all kinds of disagreements.. At least that’s what I’m seeing in reading about some of them. –

    My response was thus not about CCR it was wider than that.

    1. Opher, I did read it. Hence my comment as what you were saying was not at all representative of the CCR situation.
      If that’s the case, therefore, your reply is so all encompassing generic that it applies to every single business relationship that ever went down anywhere, anytime.
      The same analogy could be applied to those involved in chicken farming or taxidermy! Where there’s people’s ego’s and money, there’s problems anywhere and everywhere.

      1. No I don’t agree. My comment was aimed at all the big bands and little bands that were pulled apart by massive egos and infighting – from Beatles, Pink Floyd, Stones (Brian Jones), Doors, Captain Beefheart, Byrds to T2 and the Birds.

  4. You clearly stated “big egos and too much sycophancy and money”.
    I simply stated that this did not apply to CCR. Anyway.

    Given that your selection of bands hail from 50 – 60 years ago, do I detect an element of being stuck in the past? I won’t mention Guns ‘n Roses then. Way too recent.
    God forbid any mention of Oasis also. Both these bands tick all your boxes.
    The following list as you provided don’t really meet the criteria either. Several don’t at all.

    I’d have to disagree with you on the Beatles. There were numerous factors for their demise and way more important than egos and perceived infighting. Sychophancy simply didn’t apply to them on any level. Whereas money was not quite as abundant as you surmise as they only saw 4% of all of it between them. The Beatles were effectively over in 1966 as it was impossible to tour, if not too dangerous to tour anymore. Lennon feared for his life and Harrison was never going to tour again. Brian Epstein’s death in `67 was pretty much the nail in the coffin. None of these factors had anything to do with the reasons you cited.

    Pink Floyd: Yes, these were some of the reasons. Stupid whinging stoner Dave Gilmour forgot who was paying his way. Stupid Richard Wright too stoned to think for himself and come up with some kind of backing music and pissed Waters off. Nick Mason kept his mouth shut – he was always way more intelligent than Gilmour and Wright and knew the score. Waters took the bad wrap but for sure any failings were pretty much all in Gilmour’s camp. Waters is today the highest earning solo act in the world.

    Stones: No you’re completely wrong. Brian Jones became a complete liability. He persistently failed to show up for recordings as his drug addiction was obtuse and out of control. More importantly he was denied entry visa to USA, therefore unable to play any concerts so inevitably had to be replaced with somebody compos mentis. They didn’t have rehab centres back then for drug casualties.

    Doors: The Doors never succumbed to any of that. They were all the very best of friends upon Morrison’s departure to France in December 70. Morrison wasn’t always drunk despite being a full alcoholic. He was a most genial bloke off stage. All that ego stuff on stage with him was just an act, a stage act. They had had some problems but much earlier in March 69, from which Morrison learned his lesson from being too out of it in front of the police and sorted himself out considerably going on to record two of their best albums.
    In Paris it was Marianne Faithfull’s junky boyfriend who gave Morrison’s junky girlfriend some smack, China White, which Jim found when she was out. He snorted it thinking it was coke and had a heart attack. That story about being found in the bath stuff was crap. The Doors has planned to make another type LA Woman album upon Morrison’s return.

    Beefheart: What about him/them? They were no more than a spot in the ocean. The Captain was a greedy sod and never paid anybody, not that he had any money to pay them with. He always managed to look after number one. That’s why they had so many members as guys just up and left after a spell. Who wouldn’t when there’s no pay? They sold so few records that they barely covered their costs.

    Byrds: The Byrds didn’t become a real band until they got rid of that pesky wanker David Crosby and stopped recording silly teen pap songs about girls. Once he was gone they were able to work properly as a band and their concerts as recorded speak for themselves in spades. Gene Clark left earlier because he wanted to and hated flying, so he wasn’t going on tour again anyway. He did it once to Europe and couldn’t bear a repeat. So none of these reasons relate to him. Crosby was a complete pain in the ass, a real self-opinionated stoner and the rest grew tired of him. They also had too many members coming and going over the ensuing years, despite the brilliant Clarence White, but they just ran out of steam and ideas. But they had five great years up to 1972.

    T2? no idea what this is.

    Birds: The UK teenager outfit that recorded all of three singles and weren’t allowed to record an album for Decca – and Decca weren’t shy on trying out anybody since knocking back the Beatles. They had no originality, nothing much going for themselves other than the same R&B chops like dozens and dozens of other similar bands. These few records sounded fairly terrible. They went off the radar when the American Byrds’s manager threatened to sue them over the name. A year later (an eternity back then) they returned with another record, calling themselves the terrible Birds Birds. The record buyers could care less, the record was a mess and that was it.

    The best example that you could have used would be Cream.

    1. There is much truth in what you say above but I don’t agree with it all.
      I do much prefer bands from long ago. Most of what has come out recently I see as corporate shit. I still go out regularly to gigs. In terms of stuff that is around today I’d go and see PJ Harvey, North Mississippi Allstars, Wilko Johnson, Edwina Hayes, Blockheads and Arthur Brown, Nick Harper, Roy Harper, Eels. That’s good enough for me.
      Oasis were OK but I did not rate Guns and Roses. I did like White Stripes a lot though.
      I like what I like.
      In terms of the Beatles Brian’s death was a big factor and touring and management were big factors – but don’t underestimate the in-fighting.
      Your portrayal of Gilmour and Wright was none too accurate. When I met them they were nothing like that.
      The ostracisation of Brian in the Stones started long before he became a drugged out liability.
      Beefheart – the best band I ever saw live – was a mass of problems. Yes Beefheart was a complex pain of a character. They didn’t earn and he didn’t pay. But the music was sublime.
      IMO the Byrds apotheosis was undoubtedly Notorious Byrd Brothers. As soon as Parsons came in and after Crosby left they were shit. All that Christian crap.
      T2 – a great band with Keith Cross on guitar that should have gone on to greatness.
      The Birds were so much more than you represent. All the bands that came out of the British Beat in the 60s were ‘teenybop’ – including Kinks, Beatles, Stones, Who, Smallfaces, Them, Yardbirds – that was the scene. It doesn’t detract for me from the great stuff they produced. The Birds were fabulous live and did not churn out the same chords. They were unique and very exciting. Unfortunately they never captured that stage sound on record.
      Cream were certainly a good example (as was Hendrix) where personalities pulled it apart.

      1. I only used Oasis and Gun ‘n Roses as good examples of your criteria. Personally I didn’t like either one bit. I loathed Oasis and disliked most of GNR, but liked a few of their tracks.
        My word, what a dull list of acts that are of interest to you. There are tons of good bands around today and so much more than that paltry choice. I doubt I’d be interested in Wilco Johnson, one heck of a ropey singer and painful to endure. Old Arthur Brown hasn’t been able to sing for years. You go to one Harper gig then there’s really no point going another as old Roy’s been playing the same ten songs for ever.
        I didn’t enjoy PJ Harvey’s recent stage act at all and much preferred her Stories from the City period. Less silly out of tune saxophones please and more guitars.
        Eels were never a favourite for me. You won’t be going to too many gigs if that’s all you limit yourself with. Maybe venture out with a larger selection.

        I would quite easily dismiss a great deal of this supposed Beatle infighting as it happened on so few occasions. They were already over before any of the money/court stuff which was the most of that infighting. Lennon and Harrison were both beyond caring less. Listen to Lennon’s lengthy 1970 Rolling Stone Jann Wenner interview – the complete version – and hear it from the horse’s mouth.

        Ref Pink Floyd, never mind what you think you met. You cannot ignore the reasons why Waters was sacked by Waters. The man had a breakdown and couldn’t function – he said it himself. You cannot ignore Waters contempt for Gilmour for bringing sfa to the table. He mustered two songs out of how many on that Wall album. He royally pissed Waters off with his arrogance. How come you don’t know about this stuff? Just watch the Behind the Wall documentary and all will be revealed for you.

        Brian ostracised himself in spades. First when the others discovered he was pocketing five pounds more than they were getting. From then he was taken off any cash handling duties. His moody behaviour where he seemingly intentionally chose not to get along with others, which was actually an undiagnosed mild behavioral disorder.
        He just could not for the life of him write any stuff, so he wasn’t in that aspect.
        His drunken and loathsome habit of beating up girls. He was a jerk in that respect.
        However, none of that got him out the band. What did was what I previously described and I know for a fact that I’m dead right on that. Tony Calder who sadly passed away recently was one of my longest and best friends. I’ve got stories about people that I see you mention time to time that would make you puke. And you think Trump abused women! You ain’t even got a start on the subject. You’ll probably never have heard of Tony. Major player in the Beatles & Stones and many other’s worlds.

        Some of Beefheart was worthwhile, some was much weaker. He ran out of ideas mid 70’s. Never the best band I ever saw,, not even close.

        The Byrds made one album that had some Christian references on it, maybe a whole whopping one song that they didn’t even write. So your way wrong on that.
        In fact they had no more Christian anything in their repertoire than anybody else. Led Zeppelin recorded more songs about Jesus than the Byrds ever did, but nobody dismisses them for that. Your memory does not serve you well with this.
        But you prefer the album with Goffin/King covers on it a la Dusty Springfield – how very rock ‘n roll! I think you’ll find that the Byrds were easily one of the best bands on the live circuit in USA 1968-72. If you can’t get into the Untitled album then there really is a problem.

        T2, never bothered with them. Heard them, made no impression. Peter Bardens was far more interesting. Bardens had Peter Green. Why listen to average Cross, when there’s Greeny!

        Birds, I said all I needed to and thought they weren’t very good, especially all that Motown harmony stuff. They were just teenagers out of school (look it up to remind yourself) and lacked a decent front man. Give me Pretty Things any day. The PT’s were easily the best band on the circuit. Just because these bands were around at the same time means nothing. Yardbirds, Stones, Them, Kinks were not teenybops and much older. Took a couple of years for Small Faces to warm up and find their feet. The Beatles shouldn’t be in that list anyway. You can’t just splash them all with such a indiscriminate brush as you’re rewriting what went down. The Stones had already recorded at Chess before The Birds got together after school. Can’t quite see any of that teenybop stuff reference Yardbirds or Who either, because neither had many female fans to speak of. I have several live `64 recordings of Yardbirds that I got from Georgio Gomelsky and there’s nothing remotely teenybops about them. These recordings are also different to the other two live albums in the shops.
        I’ve seen many, many bands live who were so much more than their records and of course vice versa, probably even more often. That’s how it goes, but I doubt if I’d be much able to recollect that 54 years later.

      1. I think this has gone well beyond opinions as I was forced to drag the horse (you) to the water – by clear and concise references for your perusal.
        Had you simply focused on just the music, I wouldn’t even have commented.
        But when I see such glaring factual discrepancies that I know to be wholly inaccurate, I feel compelled to make correction. Few of which involve opinion, and most are a matter of fact, e.g. Beatles, Pink Floyd, Stones, Byrds – fact, Beefheart – opinion, Birds – half ‘n half.
        This is why I write about music for a number of published periodicals and you don’t.

  6. You’re fond of putting forward ‘corrections’ not all of which are anywhere near as good as you think they are. You’re also fond of being greatly negative, bigging yourself up and putting others down. Shame really.

  7. I put forward corrections as you had made a number of factual inaccuracies. It would seem that you did not bother to find out any further clarification for yourself in the interim. I am absolutely certain that had you bothered yourself to find out what exactly it was that Tony Calder did then you would not have any difficulty and wouldn’t have taken the defensive hump.
    I also gave clear instructions to two documentaries, The Lennon/Rolling Stone recording and Behind The Wall, self-produced by the band themselves.
    What does “anywhere near as good as you think they are” mean? Was that your idea of a put down in retort and perhaps the penny had dropped and you finally realised that your old fish-wife tales were well off and not up to scratch? Looks highly likely that some petulance came into play there. That is very humorous.

    Compared to your old fish-wife tales, my corrections are leaps and bounds ahead and as close to the bone of factual truth as you could get. Any major dude will tell you.
    Bigging myself up (the street talk jive of a south-Chicago hoodlum, does not suit you) is the short-hand and politer manner in suggesting that I am a lying, megalomaniac narcissist conceited asshole.
    Your nose is out of joint because you thought that you knew something, yet didn’t.
    I was not being negative. It’s how it was. If you consider being corrected as “putting others down” then there really is no helping your too precious little bubble of self delusion.
    We real music historians read these spurious articles as found within the internet all the time. There are unknown quantities of self-styled commentators out there blogging similar completely off target rundowns on bands from the past. We refer to them as “the back-bedroom mother’s boys”.
    The periodicals that have been paying me all these years would argue your narrative to the negative as were you correct and I had written same for print, our incoming mail would be deluged with upset readers offering correction. Suffice to say this has never been the case.
    There’s no shame in that.

    What’s in store for your readers next, that John Lydon’s a Democrat?

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