We live in a multicultural pluralistic society. I like that.
I value multiculturalism. I want to see other cultures being valued in a positive light. I want to see people of all cultures, races and religions incorporated into our society. I believe we are all the stronger for that.
But I do not want to see that happening to the detriment of our British culture and values. I do not want to see an undermining of our British values of justice, tolerance, equality, freedom, fairness and democracy. Those values were hard fought for. They underpin our society.
I am not religious but I do not mind the rituals of Easter, Christmas, Ramadan, Hanukkah or Diwali being observed by those want to believe. I enjoy seeing things like the Chinese New Year and Dragon dance. These things enrich. I like things that enrich – art, dance, music, food, dress, festivals, cultural differences – these things enhance our lives. They make our culture all the greater.
What I want is all people in the UK living under the umbrella of British values. I want to see schools and communities integrated. I want an end to religious schools and isolated ghettos of race. I believe that every institution should be open to all regardless of race or gender.
I want rid of anything intolerant, separationist, elitist or undermining of the values of our nation. I do not want to see any form of religion interfering with our secular state or democracy.
In my view Multiculturalism is about valuing other people’s culture but not allowing it to replace or undermine our own.
Believing in multiculturalism does not mean allowing separation of people by gender, intolerance to other religious groups, the banning of our own festivals, intolerance towards homosexuals or other social groups, the wearing of religious costumes or insignia that undermine our values, the indoctrination of children, or a different system of law; it means integrating and valuing.
I am a firm believer that if you live in a country you need to learn to speak the language, accept the values and integrate into the community. I am all for welcoming people into our culture.
Good for you and that’s nice and all that … but let us know when you come back to reality.
Surely it’s not too difficult for you to figure out that the more numbers of foreign people piling into the country the more detrimental it is to British culture.
Take your head out of the sand.
Jean – I am not denying that mass migration has been very disruptive and detrimental to British culture. What I am talking about is how to deal with the pluralistic society we have, enrich our culture and maintain our values. That is not about immigration. That is about integrating the people who are here. You’ve gone off at a tangent.
Not off tangent – you are simply blind to reality.
See my further comments.
No Andrew – I’m not blind – neither am I a xenophobic, hate-filled racist.
Oh, I forgot to ask you this – when was the last time you were invited to join in with all your Chinese friends in their New Year celebrations?
Why is it that when my two children walk out the gates of their school, they see all the Pakistani kids immediately all group up together like nobody else existed?
Why is it all the Chinese kids do the very same?
Why are there no Pakistani or Chinese children in any way involved in anything to do with drama, music, art, and other such cultural activities at school?
The school can only encourage but it cannot enforce.
The problem lies solely with the parents of all these children who are determined to build their enclaves.
So please never point the finger of integration failure at the British per se, and have a think about what we can and should do with these in-coming foreigners who are parents to children.
I’m so sick and tired of all these idiot clueless people casting complaints upon our very own people about this. They really are dumb stupid idiots.
Oops, I should say that two Chinese kids take piano lessons. No Pakistani children play any instruments.
Two out of eighty odd. That’s a 2.5% success rate. What an achievement!
Better than nothing isn’t it? I’d say that means your area needs to do more in terms of integration. My school and area had a far higher success rate than that. Many Asian Muslim kids went to the top universities and did all manner of extracurricular stuff.
Jean – who’s pointing any fingers?
What I’m saying is that we need to stop all the religious schools and the segregation. If they don’t want to integrate they shouldn’t be here.
I’m also completely perplexed about how something as inane as a dragon dance can possibly be considered to enrich your life. You must live an incredibly sheltered existence with very lengthy periods of solitude and futile activity. I think I’d rather pass on watching some paper head being waved around. Interesting ….not.
That’s up to you. It’s a little more than that though. Perhaps it’s you that’s missing out?
The biggest problem to this Country is not restricting or closing our Borders to any more immigrants/migrants. You refuse to see Opher that these people, far too many of them, refuse to learn English they refuse to mix and in fact you know and possibly still deny that there are Towns that are taken over by Muslims and they have a NO WHITES BAN. We do, like Germany and most of Europe now have NO GO Areas and unofficially the the local Authorities stay clear the police stay clear. Merkel admitted her NO GO Areas. What about Rotherham, the local authority do nothing the police do nothing about the muslim men kidnapping young white girls off the streets and raping them, using them as sex slaves. In England, YES in England, we allow this to go on why? In case we offend the muslims, so what.
I remember growing up in Ilford, you know the Town. When the Indians arrived and then the Pakistanis arrived, few of them spoke to any white neighbours, most couldn’t even speak English. Yet, the men could walk around the roads with their swords strapped to their waists, and what did the police do when there were complaints, absolutely nothing. Part of their culture to carry swords? Have a white carry that sword and the police would soon be out.
This Country is in an absolute mess, we cannot cope with all these immigrants/migrants, the cost keeps rising. We are losing our Culture, we want to get it back, this is our Country this is a Christian Country and will remain so. We have, and please don’t deny it, Home Grown Terrorists, its only a matter of time before the next bombs go off the next slaughtering of our people. People are too scared to speak out to say what they really want what they really feel, if they do so they are called Racists etc. To want to restrict or better still close our borders is not being a racist, it is being a Realist.
Anna, the problem is this stuff should never have been constructed in thought never mind being published on a public blog. The writer can only be one of two things: 1) ignorant of the affairs of the country as a whole that he claims to reside in. or 2) winding people up and looking to spark outrage.
Whatever, it suffers from abject idiocy.
I think the idiocy is all yours Sandra. What’s your solution? We shouldn’t integrate? Or just rampant xenophobia and racism? What is it – fuelled by fear and hatred??
As we see with all immigrants – it takes a generation or two to integrate. We need to work on it. Segregation, xenophobia and hatred is no answer to anything.
Anna, it would appear that there exists a problem with the realisation over the severity of the problem as it stands today in certain parts of UK. People have a tendency to only look as far as they can see, therefore, as is the case here, we encounter individuals far removed from the flash-points that we are aware of.
Your fears are making you a bit hysterical Anna. I’ve never seen any no-go areas and young girls are not being grabbed off the street and made into sex slaves. The whole grooming business was a mess and a fuck-up by the authorities. The men preyed on vulnerable girls. Hopefully, after all the many trials, the authorities have got their act together.
Anna – are you enjoying your conversation with Andrew here? He is reeling you in.
Yes there are problems with immigration – quite big ones – and they need solving. The problems are not as drastic as you make out though. You have been reading the exaggerated propaganda put out by the likes of the Sun, Express and Mail. They love to stir up populist views.
There are no NO GO areas. I know that because I have relatives who work in the police. There are many dangerous places where I would be reluctant to go – poor estates rife with gangs and crime (same all over the world). There are lots of gangs – White, Chinese, Turkish, Asian, Black and all sorts – related to crime and drugs. The immigrants end up in the poorer areas and suffer racism and prejudice so their lives are harder and unemployment higher. That causes problems.
We are a pluralistic multicultural society whether you like it or not. What’s your plan? – To deport them or shoot them?
I’m looking for solutions here Anna – not outpourings of fear and hatred.
We need to find ways of integrating people not making them angry outcasts in poor ghettos.
I’ll do a post on immigration later today if I get time.
You have said very clearly before that you have a child who is in the police. Or was in the police. Whatever, they cannot be very senior. I have a close relative who is a Superintendent and can tell you that there are such No-Go areas, many of which are in the north of England, such as Bradford & Burley. I’d like to know from where you come by this inaccurate information.
The blogger obviously isn’t aware of the recent Labour Party scandal where for a Corbyn support rally in Loughborough (and boy he needs it) white people were charged £40 and black people at £30!
The excuse given was that black people need to be encouraged to join in!
Yeah, a tenner discount should do it… and never mind the cost of racism offences accusations.
And these people think themselves fit for government?
No I wasn’t aware of that. But then I don’t go digging up obscure things to attempt to create barriers.
Obscure? It was bloody headline news all over the newspaper just 2 weeks ago!
How the hell did you miss it? The Police are holding an investigation as offences have been committed.
I didn’t get an invite this year to any celebrations relating to Chinese New Year and for that matter never have. Chinese people – and everybody knows this only too well – do not mix socially. To them we are simply “White Devils”. In fact, for them to be dancing about the streets with the dragons head warding off evil spirits – which includes all of us Brits, by the way in case you didn’t know, it’s basically giving us two fingers in public. Are we stupidly gullible regards other’s customs or what?
Sandra – that’s why the Chinese community came into our school and performed? We had all manner of cultural interaction with various ethnic communities. I’m afraid your xenophobia is creating problems where they don’t exist.
Whether they came to your school or not has nothing to do with the meaning of the ritual performed. Duh! For goodness sake understand what goes on in front of you and stop being blinded by all the pretty colours and smiley kids. Charming I’m sure, but these adults are silently saying “get it up you”.
Some rubbish is being spouted on here. First let’s get something factually correct: Sikhs carry ceremonial swords not Muslims. I know of no incident where Sikhs have attacked the public with their swords. To say that other cultures don’t integrate at all is a comment from someone who lives in a bubble. I have had girlfriends from many cultures – Pakistani, Indian, Muslim and 3 Chinese girlfriends who worked in Chinese takeaways, one of whom I am still in contact with despite her living with her husband and 2 children 100 miles away. The week before last Christmas I went down to South Wales to watch and record my daughter’s school play of the birth of Jesus Christ. She is a Muslim of Libyan origin. Girls and boys from many different cultures took active parts – Chinese, African, Asian, white Welsh; black Welsh and there were girls wearing hijabs, if you know what hijabs are. Kids don’t have prejudices about skin colour, culture etc. like some adults do. Obviously their parents had consented to their participation and they were there watching like I was.
Bede – I am aware that there are areas in all cities (all over the world) where it is unsafe for people to walk around – but my idea of a NO GO area is somewhere where the police cannot go. I do not think there is anywhere. They might need to show up in strength but there is nowhere they can’t go.
Yeah, but wait a minute. If the police need to show up in strength, what the hell is it like for anyone else? That’s why they are called NO GO areas. This is a term used by members of the public and NOT the police. Understanding that would be helpful.
Well then we differ on our understanding of what a no go area is. There’s nothing new in anything you’re saying. There are always parts of town you don’t go in and always have been. You can call them no go areas. Where I grew up there were some right rough places you stayed clear of. Nothing changes.
Thanks for your input Bede. It is much appreciated. Unfortunately I think we have our racist troll operating under other guises with his xenophobic, Islamophobic rubbish.
I would differ from you, Opher, on one point. There are “no go” areas in the sense that someone can be abused or even attacked if that person strays into an area where a different culture predominates. There are not many and maybe you have not experienced any because you live in an area where there are none. There are areas with which I familiar that I would not walk through at night, less likely during the day and probably only drive through.
Opher, for all your woffle and delusion with the realities of life, what about the true story of the Asian gangster who whilst driving he spotted a white youth taking a shortcut through his streets. He stopped and he and mates bundled the kid into the boot and drove out to the woods. They tortured and set him alight. The thug is now serving life. That’s what can happen when you enter a no-go area. Ask you supposed police relative if they know anything about that incident.
I guess there are quite a lot of those sort of things all over the world – so what?
The world’s a dangerous place. In LA the first week I arrived they chased a kid, hauled him back to the car and blew his head off because he was wearing the wrong colour.
A No go area to me is when the police cannot go in and arrest people. We don’t have them. There have always been places that you don’t walk around in.
Opher, I lived in Leeds for years. Harehills and Chapeltown were especially rough areas. I lived in Harehills in the early 80s. I had no problems because I knew the area well but there was a street which ran between Potternewton Lane and Spencer Place which the police would not drive down because any police car was stoned. A policeman on foot would not dare to walk down day or night. Neither would I. Even in my small town there are streets where buses are stoned by youths and the police are never seen unless there’s a murder.
In Belfast after the signing of the Good Friday Agreement I stayed there and never saw a police officer on foot only driving about in armoured Land Rovers. You will find areas in Bradford, Luton; Blackburn; Birmingham, East London & other places where the police are reluctant to venture. You have never lived in such an area. You are out of touch with changes over the past 30 years.
I am sure there are dangerous areas that police can get attacked in. I’d hesitate to call them no go areas though. If necessary they go in.
What you may not realise is that many towns have a skeleton shift of police officers available at night. They can’t produce a large forceful presence in many cases. In the early 80s, for example, I was knocking off a woman police officer in Barnsley and one night she asked me to meet her in a car park. She was the sole police officer on duty in the town centre. If there had been an incident that night, the local police force would not have been able to respond.
Yes that is true for a lot of places Bede. That is slightly different though isn’t it. The case Sandra is making is that immigrants are causing such violence that there are no go areas. The truth is that there are gangs and racial tensions that cause certain areas to be very difficult to manage. It’s not about immigration. It’s about gangs and a complex scenario. If you want to see danger then where we went in Brazil would be near the top, Washington was really bad and I was instructed which areas to stay out of (not drive through) in LA.
For what it’s worth, Opher, I found your post to be a model of good sense and reasonableness. I was very surprised to read the intense reactions to it from one or two of your correspondents. We all have a lot to learn from other cultures and should take advantage of difference to develop and evolve rather than retreat behind the closed doors of prejudice and suspicion. Without goodwill we are not the nation we could be.
Cheers Dave – There is a wave of fear and hatred going around Dave. People get caught up in it and it’s whipped up by the media. The gutter press sensationalise and exaggerate. Xenophobia and racism are manifest at the moment. Paranoia strikes deep. People are frightened.
You put your finger on the problem. I think it behoves all of us to try and distinguish fact from fiction and the considered tone of your post is a good example of the nuanced and fair-minded tone required. British culture is nothing if not tolerant and inclusive – it is a time to keep our heads on that issue.
Thanks Dave. I think you are right.
Opher, on the issue of “no go” areas it seems to come down to a question of semantics. For you a no-go area is one where the police would be unable to enter. I would say for most people a no-go area would mean an area where the public would be advised not to enter for fear of violence to the person. In theory the police can go anywhere, even Compton in LA or favelas in Brazil, so your definition, with respect, is pointless. There are areas in the UK which many people would consider “no go” areas and I could take you to some. Such areas are not necessarily dominated by one specific culture but some are.
Bede – you see earlier on, on other posts, people were talking about police no go areas. That is what I was really referring to. The view in America is that Europe is swamped with Muslims and lost to civilisation, that there are unpoliced no go areas where sharia law is the only law and that British cities are becoming unpoliceable. I didn’t agree. My resident troll is saying that there are many Muslim immigrant no go areas in Britain. I think he is racist and Islamophobic. That’s where this stems from.
There have always been estates where it is not wise to walk. Whitechapel and some of the Liverpool ones. That’s the same world-wide. It’s more about gangs than anything else.
Opher, there are areas where people have been attacked because they are different or standout in some respect. Stephen Lawrence is an example. He was just waiting for a bus when he was killed by a group of white kids for no apparent reason other than he was of a different skin tone. In my town white persons have been attacked by youths simply because they have white skin and are walking through a predominantly South Asian area. Nothing to do with gang warfare or rivalry, more to do with bigotry and prejudice which exists in all sectors of society to some degree.
Yeah – there’s a lot of that too.