Now we know more about what is involved with Brexit I think it is only right that we have a democratic say. As there are a number of options I would suggest that instead of a binary decision we allow the people to decide what flavour we prefer.
I suggest a referendum based on the following:
a. A complete break from the EU.
b. We break with the political union but stay within the Single Market and Customs Union.
c. We break with the political union but stay within the Single Market.
d. We break with the political union but stay within the Customs Union.
e. We remain within the EU.
I think that might give us a better idea of the thinking of the British people. What do you think?
Reblogged this on 61chrissterry and commented:
You have a good point, but which of those will the EU allow and none of them mention the right of the UK to decide who comes and who stays within the UK.
I am not adverse to immigration provided the immigrants come to work and are prepared to contribute to the UK and abide by our rules of law and Society.
If some do not work and/or commit crimes then they should be deported irrespective of their family life here.
Thanks Chris.
There is a clause that we failed to sign up to. It basically said that we could send back all EU immigrants to the country they originated from if they did not have work. Why didn’t we sign up?
The question is too complex. The electorate are sick of elections. We stay or we leave. We have elected representatives who can deal with questions b,c & d in conjunction with the representatives of the EU. It’s not for the UK alone to determine on which conditions we leave.
No Bede – I don’t think it’s too complex. Yes we are sick of elections but it looks like we’re going to have a general election soon and I think a decision of this magnitude should supersede any lassitude.
It isn’t just down to the UK but we should have a clear view of what it is we want. This mob haven’t got a clue.
And Labour have?
In regards to Europe I don’t think it’s a lot better but in terms of other things I think it’s much better.
Well what is Labour’s position on Europe? It’s unclear. Corbyn wants a customs union with the EU. What makes him think the EU would agree to one? Turkey are the only major economy to have a customs union with the EU and that was because at the time they were expected to join not leave like the UK. In addition Turkey are unhappy with how onerous the customs union they have is. Even if the EU did they would impose every regulation on the UK so leaving would be no different from staying except the UK would have no influence on regulation. Labour’s position post-Corbyn’s latest speech is simply a cynical ploy to bring down the government. A statesman he is not.
Only in terms of goods. A customs union makes sense for both sides. We are unique in that our businesses are so intertwined. No other nation is like that. We have developed so many things that involve many other countries with bits made here and there and assembled elsewhere. The only way to deal with something as complex as that is to continue a free movement – a customs union. Makes sense to me.
Besides, this pathetic government needs bringing down.
I voted remain but if there is a 2nd referendum, I’ll be voting leave. The attitude of the EU negotiating bureaucrats has really pissed me off. Negotiation is supposedly about compromise not intransigence.
That’s a bit like biting your nose off to spite your face Bede, isn’t it? I don’t think they had much choice. It was obvious that the political expedient was to make it hard otherwise the EU would split up. The politics outweighed the economics. I could see that happening from the beginning. They intend to make us suffer even if they take a hit themselves. They know we’ve got more to lose.
It’s unclear whether we would have more to lose. The sole definite statistic is that we buy more from the EU than they buy from us. I think the trading deficit is about £60 billion in their favour. None of the scaremongering prior to the vote about leaving has come to fruition. I would not be cutting off my nose. I was not fully pro-remain for the 1st referendum but I hoped we could change it from within. The EU now is not what I voted to join the 70s. It’s become a gravy train for unelected bureaucrats. I can only guess at the corruption and waste which has taken place over the years. I dislike bureaucrats at the best of times and the approach of the EU Commission to the negotiations since our vote has convinced me that we are better without being ruled by them. I still hold the view that eventually the EU project will collapse. Some East European countries are considering leaving. There will be a nationalist anti-EU coalition governing Italy (one of the founder members) soon. Even Merkel had problems holding onto any form of power. There is a strong nationalist revival in Germany and France. In addition if the UK, as the 2nd largest net contributor, leaves there will be a large hole in the EU budget which Germany will be forced to fill.
Bede – I do not think there is any doubt that Brexit will make us poorer.
What I dislike most, more than the economic hit, is the change of perspective. I do not think it is psychologically healthy to become insular and inward looking. I think the collaboration and joint enterprise is healthier.
I share your dislike of the bureaucracy, corruption and gravy train. But I think that goes on in all politics and I would much rather be tackling it inside the EU.
The possible collapse of the EU is, in my opinion, not a good thing. Firstly I think that is why the EU will seek to punish us heavily as a deterrent to others, and secondly it would diminish Europe in many ways.