I was quite struck today by the way derogatory language is used on the internet. I am 68 years old and am not quite senile yet. My intellectual faculties are pretty intact though obviously my short-term memory is not quite as sharp as it used to be but I get there. But three times in the last two days I have found myself on my blog being described as an old man as if being 68 has suddenly made me worthless. It is put in such a derogatory way that indicates that the younger people concerned consider my views worthless, that I am suddenly out of touch, that my life experience is irrelevant and my intelligence has diminished.
That is obviously lazy pigeon-holing and arrogance on their part. It says more about them than anything else.
It is possible that I will live for another thirty years. By the time I get into my eighties and nineties I may start to think of myself as old but I doubt it.
Now that racism, homophobia and sexism is heavily frowned upon are these people turning their attention to older people? Is ageism the new racism? Do we put aside all need to listen to what older people have to say, to disregard their experience and views, and simply put them down as irrelevant and worthless?
How arrogant can you get?
Where in heaven’s name have you been, my friend? Ageism started long ago. Just ask any woman who watches a commercial for anti-aging cream — used on a 28-year-old! They’ll tell ya it’s been building for years thanks to the fashion/cosmetic industry. Why, they even called Justin Timberlake old (so I heard) on the Superbowl. He’s 38? Someday the tables are going to tip and folks — especially employers — are going to find out experience is a much more valuable tool that youth!
It is ever thus Cheryl. People find a multitude of ways to put down people.
The media, fashion industry, entertainment industry and cosmetic industry all promote youth. Long gone are the days when age was considered a repository of wisdom.
Age is now a legitimate term of abuse. You can be pigeon-holed and belittled.
What arrogance and stupidity. What rudeness and crassness.
Thank heavens there are so many great older examples of intelligence and genius.
When I heard that comment about Timberlake I couldn’t help thinking, REALLY? What about Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Perry Como, and Tony Bennett (who is STILL singing at his age!). Or Peggy Lee, Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Cher, Barbra Streisand, or Joan Baez who has performed publicly for 59 years? She’s 77. Geez… Don’t get me started.
The big changes occurred in society following the world wars. Started slowly after WW1, then more so after WW2, then Korea, then Vietnam and so forth. Each one with a host of vociferous objectors, conscious writers tapping into the heart of the pulse, all the 1950’s Beat Poets – you should know them.
All venomous complaints aimed at these decrepit old fucks wanton on sending young men to their deaths in the millions for what? Glory? King? Country?
We reap what we sow.
Yes Cheryl, people are selective. I guess that artists aimed at the teenage market sometimes have difficulty crossing over to a more mature audience. I wonder how many ‘elderly’ writers wrote fabulous novels or poems?
Age is a pain but it also has its advantages. Experience and wisdom counts for a lot. I’m bloody glad I’ve done the things I have, they all add to the richness.
Recently I blogged about my issue: was I too old to write a book? Answer was of course No! But cause of procrastination were a little complicated. Keep up the anti-ageism campaign!
Yes Heather I am very familiar with the Beat poets and the objections to war. I was part of all that.
Unfortunately you make the mistake of equating the elite with age. It wasn’t about that at all, was it? It was about the establishment. Some of the ‘old fucks’ as you so abusively put it were out there protesting and marching. You are far too simplistic. Try using your intelligence.
You are just being arrogant and rude.
Not the clubs I go to in York, Hull, Sheffield and Manchester. No cocoa. No early nights. Just loud music. Bouncing crowds and great stuff.
You chose to misinterpret the point that it is, was and always will be older people dictating and ordering young people to go and probably die in some war.
No doubt older people played a part in demonstrations.
How you chose to write off completely what was an evidently truthful synopsis was bad tempered of you. You are upset because a much younger person stole your torch and they said it before you even thought of it. Anybody could see the way you operate a mile away. No credit given with Opher, unless he is always seen in the best light before anybody else.
I don’t care if you want to be the spoil sport or he who shouts “it’s my ball, so it’s my game and my rules”.
If you want I will list you all of the writers that were involved in criticism of these old fucks with their wanton carnage from WW1. The list will be massive of course.
Given that you are more of a popularist with your chosen written subject matter, akin to a “greatest hits” sort of record album buyer, I doubt you would be familiar with at least several hundred of these writers as they wrote pre-1950’s beat poet nonsense era.
I think you have fallen fowl to your inner most fears of being seen as a write off, has been, former self etc. Everything is a threat to your crumbling domain which was really only a house of cards anyway as it was bound to be toppled by the next generation and so forth. What was important to your generation in the 1950’s such as what you liked to read holds not a bit of similar levels of interest today.
That’s just the way it goes.
Isn’t it disappointing to see bitterness creeping in to the winter days of the elderly.
No Heather – you miss the point. Most old people do not go ordering young people to go and get killed. The establishment do that. Your beef is with the establishment and not old people. Your generalisations are unintelligent as are your attempts are put-downs.
Your splurge of nastiness and disrespect is merely your character revealing itself. Fortunately most of the young people I have had the pleasure of meeting do not share your rudeness, nor your arrogance.
I am quite happy on this blog to debate any subject and to give a platform to other views. But if someone is rude, condescending, arrogant and disrespectful they set the tone for what follows.
But don’t worry love the popularity of my blog is increasing daily and keeps me busy enough.
Yes, employers have been saying that and many an older person is now to be found at your local Tesco or B&Q, working for teenagers money and the bonus is their absenteeism is very low because they’re not out partying like the young `uns.
One man’s garbage is another man’s gold. Everyone has a use and a value.
“…absenteeism is very low because they’re not out partying like the young `uns…” Or perhaps their work ethic is MUCH better? Those kids out partying are going to be picking your retirement benefits at some point…
Of course the work ethic is MUCH better! Blimey, they’re quids in for the sheer fact that they know what that is!
These kids are welcome, as long as they don’t spend MY money. They can contribute to my pension pot until the cows come home. We should double check that they’re all on PAYE.
Yes Heather and I think you will find a number of those more ‘elderly’ are running Tescos and B&Q, the Bank of England and the Government because their intelligence, wisdom and experience is more highly valued than the lesser life experience of younger people.
Heather – the assumptions you make. I’m still often out partying thanks. Perhaps you should check out the number of gigs I attend. Got back at two the other night. Perhaps older people are just more reliable and have a better attitude?
Gigs? In most cases you’re home for 10pm because that’s how these venues are run these days, especially healthy and safety council owned venues.
That was just a small thing you must have been at. Or you travelled some distance.
Yeah – I travel some distance and most of the gigs I go to don’t start til ten thirty. You obviously don’t do Rock Music do you?
My eldest son does security for several Birmingham venues. It’s not what I’d call rock ‘n roll anymore. It’s out the door with cocoa by 10pm latest.
I spent a lot of time following music with concerts and clubs and all that. But I’m tired of it now. It’s just not the same with all these silly volume restrictions – I can hear the people chat next to me – we used to have to scream at each other.
I hate all these iPhones being held aloft all the time and the fact that I can’t smoke one. It’s all got a bit uninspiring. Queue Traffic’s “Sometimes I Feel So Uninspired”. I’d go to see them were they alive.
It would be amazing if you never thought that when you were much younger. Very probable that the truth of the matter if you were honest is that you did. You addressed old people as old people, maybe not to their face, but all the same. We all did. We all do. We even tease older members of our family about it. We rib mirth with our friends who become another year older before ourselves.
It isn’t abuse, it’s a fact of life. Get over it. You’re old enough anyway to take anything on the chin.
Why are you behaving like a shrinking violet diva?
No Heather. It was merely an observation. I found it very revealing. But no you are quite wrong. A lot of my heroes when I was young were very old. At nineteen I venerated Son House (seventy nine) one of the best performers I’ve ever seen, William Burroughs, Buddha, Howlin’ Wolf, Sleepy John Estes, Jack Kerouac and a range of great writers like Steinbeck, Hemmingway, Huxley, Orwell and Lawrence, and philosophers like Nietzsche, Socrates. Age was seen as a source of wisdom and experience not a thing to be weaponised.
Sorry Heather I can’t help getting older. It’s a pain I can tell you. It would be nice to be young again. But it doesn’t detract from my intelligence, life experience and views. I’m not senile yet. It does not negate my right to express myself or prevent me from writing my novels.
Yes – and I don’t mind ribbing either. If it’s done in the right way and is not intended as a real put-down or with malice. Seems to me that such things require relationship first and a sense of humour.
But don’t worry Heather I wasn’t greatly taking exception to your comments. There were far worse examples. I was merely making observations on the way race, gender, religion, creed, culture, skin colour, sexual preference, size, height, weight, intelligence and bodily features are all used to abuse people and age fits neatly into that list.
Heroes? Some scratchy old blues picker. My god man, you are easily pleased.
I’m not talking about your heroes in daft pop music or romantic novelists, or beat poets or whatever those 1950’s hipsters were want of calling themselves.
I’m talking about real older people that affect your life. Real older people that can make your life a misery because they are your boss and superior.
You never had some old geezer giving you shit to do at work?
When the hell did Sleepy John Estes instruct you to carry out a task at work that you really did not want to know about? When did William S. Burroughs instruct you to report for army training active service? When did Socrates ever tell you to go kill the yellow Commie? Etc Etc.
Can’t you stick to reality rather than this fantasy list of fantasy heroes?
You must be – if you are to be believed – and I don’t believe you – the only young man every to not mutter under his breath at his old decrepit boss after receiving instruction on some task in hand – “go fuck yourself you old bugger” sort of thing.
I think you may be telling porky pies here.
Well Andrew you’re going to have to start believing aren’t you. You couldn’t help yourself could you. Very sad.
Ageism, racism, homophobia, rudeness and arrogance. You have a real problem don’t you? Never mind.
My two bosses at college when I did my research were old, wonderfully interesting and real good guys. My first boss at my school was a really interesting guy. I had two that weren’t so good and one that was great. Nothing to do with age just character.
My list of heroes informed my life. What were yours? Pol Pot? Mao? Hitler?
I prefer people with more manners and respect, less arrogance and more intelligence.
Mandela, Picasso, Dali, Ghandi and Bertrand Russell also come to mind. Then there was Benn and Einstein. Quite a few of the people I like are elderly.
Talk about trying to squeeze people into pigeon-holes and abuse them. Smacks of a character flaw to me. I predict xenophobia, Brexit, Trump and a fear of Muslims.
You must have mixed up the threads.
Ok, so you were a lucky one with great bosses. I wasn’t and perfectly disliked a number of them and couldn’t stand the sight of them.
But I don’t understand this idolatry of people you don’t know. By all means enjoy their works etc but it’s not healthy to strain on their every utterance particularly years after the event which had no personal involvement for you.
Picasso and Dali? And you talk about respect, manners and arrogance?
And you picked Picasso and Dali?
Yeah, very good, very funny.
You are a card.
No, I don’t do it anymore mainly because all the people and bands that I liked are gone now. Shame but inevitable. If The Rolling Stones come back for a last hurl then I will go to that as also to Paul McCartney. I know they will be really pricey, but the heck it might not happen again.
Well that is a bit of a problem, particularly with Mark E snuffing it. But there are still some good bands around.
Oh, I forgot as we bought the tickets so long ago now, but we’re going to see Roger Waters in the summer – if he lives.
Well Heather I suggest you augment your stadium show with some good clubs acts. There are some great acts about – North Mississippi Allstars, Blockheads, Strawberry Moon, Celt Arabia, Wilko Johnson, Stiff Little Fingers, John Cooper Clarke, Loudhailer Electric Company, Magic Band, Doctors of Madness, Ian Siegal, Buzzcocks, Billy Bragg. All worth an evening.
Not a lot of that appeals to me now and some never did.
Look out for Jonathan Wilson in March.
I saw Jonathan Wilson with Roy Harper a few years back.
There, there, petums, come to mummy, away from these nasty bad boys saying horrid things to little petums. There, there, mummy will make it all go away…
Good heavens, woman! Who piddled in YOUR cheerios this morning?
Lookit Cologen, somebody’s got to laugh about it. I mean I ask you, did you ever…
Hey Cheryl I detect an impostor. Me thinks he’s just showing himself up.
Cologen (I mis-spelt it should be Collagen) is an anti-wrinkle anti-aging cream.
Calensariel will know what that is, but I doubt you would.
It was a joke. Relax the hackles.
You ARE a Diva!
You don’t laugh about it when you’re on the receiving end and can’t find a job and your unemployment runs out. Of course they fail to mention in their job statistics the ones of us who are not able to find work and have fallen of the list of unemployed. One of the biggest lies perpetuated in the states.
Well yes of course. They sure make it tough and for all their blether about making jobs available to the older set. It’s just crumbs of good intentions with little to show for it. Unless of course you are lucky enough to live in an area with lots of super stores then you just might have a chance. Otherwise yes it is Unemployment. And what a damned insult that is to people who are more than willing to do work in the first place. My company are very open to all ages as long as you can do the job.
Ho Ho Heather – is that yet another form of derogatory abuse? Very fetching.
Look buster, you want to be taken seriously? Well bloody well act it and not like some old women has-been-diva.
Jeezuz, a man complaining about that?
Oh, I get it, you on the way to …shhh….Trans Gender?
Why didn’t you just say in the first place instead of tip-toeing around.
What a strange way your mind works. Are you drunk or stoned?
Learn to laugh a little. Don’t take yourself SO seriously.
Does everything have to be SO black and white – I like that, I don’t like this, I like her, I don’t like him, ad infinitum.
I laugh plenty thanks. I just don’t laugh at abuse. It’s not funny.
Pick One of the following and explain why.
Picture yourself as an employer and you have just one job vacancy to fill. There are no restrictions as regards gender, age, disabilty, race, or religion. However, you do have to fulfill the criteria that 2% of your work force must be of ethnic origin.
You have two very suitable applicants for your direct contact customer services sales force team.
Applicant A:
She is trans-gender for 10 years.
She is 68 years old.
She has flat feet and extremely scared of heights and cannot use the ladder in the stock room.
She has an awkward lisp which interferes greatly with speech.
She is of mixed race, with Middle Eastern/Persian mixed with Chinese.
She is Muslim.
She is 5 foot 1 inch tall.
Applicant B:
He is male.
He is 68 years old.
He suffers from sporadic bouts of sickle cell anemia.
He wears glasses and is short sighted and has all his front teeth missing.
He is indigenous African.
He is Roman Catholic.
He is 6 foot 3 inches tall.
Which one do you give the job to and why?
Neither. I’d fire the people writing the job advert and those short-listing for interview.
But you have no knowledge of these details.
You can’t fire people for that.
Have another go.
If people aren’t suited for the post then I would readvertise.
Er, Heather…it would depend on what the job is, wouldn’t it? And the qualifications or experience required. The rest has nothing to do with it.
It’s difficult. Maybe you leave yourself too open at times by posting too many similar posts in short order. Must be difficult to keep a head on any commentary with any level of consistency especially when some people look like they have all their faculties together and in general terms know what they are talking about and at least put forth good proposition for your consideration. Judging as mere occasional bystander, it might be a more persuasive idea were you to actually discuss the incoming comments rather than simply announcing “no, you are wrong” at almost every turn. At least that is what you appear to be doing with incoming commentary with any content over and above a few cursory words. You scare people off with your huge ego and bombastic righteousness.
Which explains why the pages of the blog are dead and any sorry soul that has a bash gets short shrift. That’s how it appears to me. Other than that I have nothing to say, in short, no comment Ophercer.
Well you’re entitled to your opinion. I’m sorry that’s how I come across. Perhaps if you had adopted the right tone from the beginning we could have had a debate instead of a slanging match.
The right tone is only that which you agree with.
No it isn’t Heather. It is a debate without personal content, disparaging remarks or rudeness. I am interested to hear other views and knowledge from different sources.
Do you want to scroll up this page and read what you replied with to my first post.
My first post – have a good look at your reply.
At no point was my post anything other than informative, a deliberately very short precise on events.
And what did you do? You replied straight off the bat, no holds barred, straight for my jugular, that quote, “You are far too simplistic. Try using your intelligence.
You are just being arrogant and rude.”
Straight off I am the following – simple, unintelligent, arrogant and rude.
And you make claim of MY tone?
We could have had a debate?
Debate:
Grumpy Old Man
Also known as “Mr/Mrs. Back in my day…”, this character spends an inordinate amount of time complaining about how the world is going to pot and how today’s youth show no respect and how everything was so much better when they were young.
This character is a killjoy, depressing, boring, and paints the older generation in a negative light.
Discuss:
You haven’t said one relevant word and only listed names of some long deads that impressed (thought I can’t quite fathom why for at least two of them) and only talked about yourself and your opinion of others inbetween talking about yourself and your likes and dislikes.
That isn’t any kind of debate.
It’s like watching a keyboard amalgam of the Jack Lemmon/Walter Matthau charcters with Archie Bunker and Victor Meldrew thrown on top for good measure.
Been racking around for suitable subject character study for our theatre production group and I just may have found him – you!
Yes you’re right Heather. I was far too brusque. There were reasons for that. I thought you were someone else. My apologies.
I read your post and so agree, but I don’t want to get involved in this argument or debate thats going on between “Heather” and yourself. The cheap nasty comments, not from you, about collagen, not all women use it or want it, looking “natural” is much better. There seems so little respect these days from the young to anyone over 50 or maybe even 45. I hate being treated like an old woman just because I have to use a walking stick, and being shouted at etc because I am deaf on one side. I still have a good brain, I still read a lot write a lot, I like my music and I adore people like Sinatra, Andy Williams, The Beach Boys, the list can go on and on. I have learned a lot from older people, my own late husband taught me so much being 30 years older than me, and watch out Opher here comes a compliment, I have learned a lot from you even though we don’t always agree. I am finding a majority of the young such a joke these days, they are like sheep can’t think for themselves.
When one acts old then you become old. Healthwise things go wrong and thats annoying but we still cope we have to.
Thanks Anna. I appreciate that. We might not always see eye to eye but we respect each other. That is important. I value that.
Great discussion going on here, Opher. I know that Ageism was alive and well when I was a kid. I remember back in the 60s reading about earlier time periods when families looked after their elderly instead of shipping them off to community “Old Folks Homes”. I also remember reading about grandparents living with their grandchildren and enthralling them with stories about the past. I remember shaking my head and rolling my eyes. I was a young fool – a product of the times. Unfortunately, our industrial/urban societies still view the elderly as burdens rather than the treasures they really are. Yes, the young of EVERY generation has viewed anyone more than 10 years older than themselves as OLD… eww! (Rolling eyes again!)
Cheers John – elucidating and sobering isn’t it. I never planned on getting old. We’ll see. I think it’s a state of mind.
Exemptions exist from that “young of EVERY generation” as claims have been made to the contrary. An example of the perfect model citizen.
Exemptions? There are no perfect citizens I think.
Yes, you exempted yourself as expressed above. And why not it’s a free country.
You must be the only person I’ve ever come across who has been completely satisfied and on occasions seemingly thrilled by his treatment from the older generation at all times. The fact that older generations take ownership of their younger generation and take liberties seemingly didn’t fall into your orbit.
I just cannot believe your expressive horror at such a thought of the contrary and there’s some fibs just for the sake of fibs being told. That must have been the strongest and most protective bubble ever that enabled such positivity. I wish I had one of these.
Principally of course, being a male, you wouldn’t understand very much of that of what goes on with older men and younger women. You don’t need the details.
Which in turn accounts for your confusion relative to previous statements about your deluded perception of the upstanding qualities of Picasso and Dali. LOL.
Try using your intelligence. You are just being arrogant and rude.
It is very belittling to women with such crass comments of expression of heroic adulation for these two sex creeps.
That’s like making a Hitler joke at a bar mitzvah in Poland in 1946, complaining about the poor attendance. Or claiming Jimmy Saville was a role model to children and the mentally retarded.
Your basic mistake (also my mistake for not making myself perfectly clear) from the off was to assume everything revolves around England and the mentality of England – with claims of Establishment.
It didn’t click with me at first hand that you were seemingly only thinking in terms of your immediate surroundings and the most comfortable perception of how things work and concurrent attitudes of those you know, knew, saw from a distance, respected, understood and agreed with etc.
Have another look at how the vast majority of the world works and you will find many major differences in mentality where maturity is completely respected and where instruction given by an elder is expected to be followed.
I’d ask you what was the attitude of the older generation towards the younger generation in the UK at WW1? Are you sure that your statements that my beef is only with the Establishment stands up to scrutiny?
That there was no moral compass and social mores at play there?
I’m not sure that you are entirely correct.
Dare I mention the television programmes and the social commentary in the 1960’s, 70’s and 80’s, where there was rather good indication of attitudes of the day. Maybe you were busily engrossed listening with intent to or reading the speeches of Tony Benn and missed them. I can remember how much my father hated Tony Benn. He used to shake his newspaper and shout at the television set whenever he came on, “bloody rubbish” and “bloody balloon” could be heard.
I wasn’t going to mention it – and at first I didn’t – but I think you may be in need of a revue or some level of help with your temperament. I didn’t take your insults of Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, and your prediction of xenophobia, Brexit, Trump and a fear of Muslims all too seriously. I don’t know what you were relating to as it’s too dumbfounding and a bit disturbing. I thought it was Alf Garnett having a go at me at first, least it felt like it.
We have a name for these kind of outbursts in the NHS, but I’ll refrain from any diagnosis. I’m a staff nurse in mental health (on my once a fortnight late shift tonight) and I suggest that you do pop along to your doctor’s surgery for a chat about things. If you do find yourself with mood swings it’s best that you mustn’t let that fester as it could be an early warning indication. It could be as benign as just needing a dietary stimulant.
Of course, you’re right, Heather. I apologize for the sweeping generalization.
Don’t worry Heather. I’m not prone to mood swings.
Opher, that wasn’t what I was looking for – more self interest comments.
I wanted to know how you can dismiss the moral compass and social mores that existed in WW1, to conclude that my complaint was only with the establishment.
Or can I rest my case?
Heather – in my opinion the hierarchy in the WW1 was little to do with age and much to do with class and the establishment. The fact that most of those decision makers were older was not the main fact. They had progressed through their careers to get there. That takes time. They represented the interests of the establishment. I don’t think it was about age at all.
Which is very much what I expected from you. You have blinkered yourself into a corner with only focus on those that sent the call-up letter.
You really need to think of the moral code and social mores of that day, where these young men were EXPECTED to go off to war. There was no argument about it. 99% of young men got a pat on the back from their fathers and a reassurance that to fight for King and Country was the right thing to do.
Which I suggest would explain for the incredibly low level of numbers of conscientious objectors.
Just a tiny example of that attitude was portrayed in a film that was on last night (again), “My Boy Jack”, about the 17 year old son of the writer Rudyard Kipling, who was responsible for getting his son into the army to go off and fight and he was of the strong opinion that it was “the right thing to do”.
I’m not so sure that you’re quite as well up on all this.
I’m also not sure that you realise that the publishing of these war poets in the form of poetry was the only way that any such complaints could be made.
A person could certainly never hope that their letter to the editor of a newspaper etc would ever be published if its contents complained about society at large.
Poetry was the only method of disguise.
I think you think that these WW1 “poets” set out to be “poets”.
To do so would be a mistake.
Despite the fact that it is all water long under the bridge, it’s quite annoying to see history being misinterpreted through ignorance and poor intelligence.
Our society used to operate on the basis of where the older generation would dictate at large to the younger. It’s come around full circle and evidently some seniors unfortunately feel the thrust of this change in attitudes.
No Heather I haven’t blinkered myself into a corner at all. Why say that?
Of course the mores of the day were blind acceptance of God, King and Country, as exemplified by Kipling. Those were the fictions they believed in. Those were the fictions put out and maintained by the establishment – that same establishment that starts the wars and guides the policies. It is not an age thing at all. It is a hierarchy thing.
Of course they set out to be poets. Read about Owen and his doings with Sassoon. He was trying to be a poet from the start and he was – a very fine one at that.
What are all the nonsense jibes about misinterpreting history and unintelligence. What stupidity. I know my history thank you.
If you think the young are dictating to the old you are very mistaken. The same establishment is still running things. It is the rich dictating to the poor just like it has always been.
As a sixty year old, I can honestly say that I have never experienced ageism used against me. I have chatted quite aimiably with 20 something’s on blogs (possibly they do not know my age as I don’t belabour the point usually.
Every age group will have its fond and not so fond memories of past events. They are largely irrelevant except to say that they can have a lot to do with our individual happiness. One person’s likes can be another’s hates, so our memories of ‘a better time,’ are completely subjective to our experience.
I am really hopeful for today’s youth. Many of them are quite switched on to making the world a better place, addressing environmental sustainability issues far better than we have ever done. Youth brings enthusiasm and fresh ideas, not the rehashing of failed rhetoric. As oldies, we can remind them of what we have done and what has failed, so they don’t repeat our mistakes…but then we must leave them to decide what is best for their future, because we will no longer be around anyway.
I can’t say I’ve ever encountered it either Colette. I dealt with a lot of youngsters in teaching and they were largely respectful and interested. The ones that were awkward were not so because of age.
I’ve been lucky in my work too. The old guys have all been really nice and helpful apart from the odd one or two – and they were just plain unpleasant people.
Then I am confused…why are you writing about ageism being the new racism? It seems a bit of a ‘red herring!’
Because I perceive that it is beginning to rear its head. We have the media saying things like it was the old that voted Brexit and the young who will pay, that the baby boomers had it easy and bought houses and the young are picking up the tab. They are stoking up hostility towards the old. On top of that we have a slew of technology that leaves a lot of old in its wake making the young feel they are stupid.
I can see it starting up.
There were three post comments on here with ageist derogatory terms. I thought it was worth mentioning.
I won’t get into it with you on Brexit, but it has always been the case that youngsters see their elders as outdated and old fashioned. It is called progress. If the media want to turn that into ageism, then so be it. In Britain, their is a tradition of ‘moaning.’
“It’s too hot,” or “It’s too cold.” The population here generally find fault with everything. That we have passed our pessimism on to our offspring, should be no surprise to anyone.
Brexit is not the great doom that the press portray, leaving the ‘Single Union,’ will not be the end of Britain and Corbyn will not be the great saviour because his spend and tax policy will cripple Britain’s economy …
Honestly Opher, if people could just be a little more positive, things like Ageism would just be shrugged off!
there
Lol Colette – there has always been an element of moaning. I agree. It is never perfect. There has always been a generation gap too – sometimes narrower sometimes wider. What I detect though is the danger of an orchestrated media attack on the older generation. The Baby Boomers are portrayed as having had it easy. That is simply not the case. Present day generations would simply not have lived in the conditions we did when we were younger. We have only had money in the last ten years before that we were very poor.
In terms of Brexit I think that is wrong in so many ways. The Tories are making such a mess of things and Corbyn will be great.
Your opinion is a valid one, but I think you are spending too much time in front of your computer or watching TV. Life is for living, not moaning. Corbyn won’t be great. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing!
Hi Colette – yes you’re right. I spend much too much time on my computer. Writing books is time consuming. The blog is light relief but takes time too. I don’t get to watch too much TV though.
It’s OK I’ll be back travelling again soon with my camera and seeing life first hand. That’s always best. Meeting real people, talking and seeing gives you the real picture.
Forget personalities – look at policies. The Tory policies are crippling the country. Austerity restricts growth and destroys public services. Austerity stops infrastructure development, reduces salaries and creates a poorer economy. Giving tax cuts to the rich to invest off-shore in tax evasion has not created better investment. Everything is in crisis.
When Labour get in public service investment increases dramatically – and needs to. If we are a caring society we need investment. If we want to invest in the future we need excellent education. Crime is on the rise and everything is falling to bits. Privatisation means the rich are scamming us. Labour policies were fully costed and make sense. That is why I support them 100%. We’ll see about Corbyn. The media campaign has been virulent but it would be wouldn’t it? They are owned and run by Tories – even the BBC has been flooded with them.
How much of your pension would you like to give up to see your Utopia?
lol Colette – I don’t think it’ll be a utopia. I’m too old to be fooled into that. I just know it will be a lot better. I worked in schools for thirty six years. Every time the Tories got in it was murder – starved of cash, pay freezes, leaky roofs, staff shortages, poor pay, no resources and constant changing rubbish. When Labour got in we were properly paid, properly resourced and properly staffed. It was chalk and cheese.
The Tories hate public services and look for any excuse to cut them. There is a crisis everywhere. I know Labour will sort it out. They won’t be perfect. The city, media and establishment will do everything in their power to undermine them but they will make things better like they always do.
How much of my pension? Well that’s hypothetical because it won’t cost me any.
I don’t know if I can say that ageism is the new racism, mostly because racism is the new racism probably. But ageism is a big issue nevertheless.
Cheers Brendan. So you think racism is still alive and well? It seems to me that it is thankfully on the decline. I was merely suggesting that ageism seems to be on the increase. Both need eradicating in my opinion.
Yes, I think it is alive and well. We saw it in Charlottesville last summer, with the president saying that there were good people on the side of the KKK, neo-Nazis, etc. Racism was also literally written all over my family’s car (someone wrote “Mexican n****r” on it among other things). I even wrote a post about that whole experience. But both racism and ageism do need to be ended in all forms, regardless of what is increasing or decreasing.
That sounds horrible. I’m hearing a lot of reports about an increase in racism following Trump. We had the same here with Brexit but I’m hoping that is short lived.
Here’s to the end of all racism!! Long may it die!!
Trump, Erdogan, Kim Ying Un, Putin, all of the same bread, are very dangerous people for the world. They also manage to get enough pepole agitated and to react against those who are ‘different’. At the European continent we feel the pressure of Nationalists, Alt-right and Neo-Nazis and several people of an other religion as trinitarian Christians are bullied, even feeling so much pressure they have to leave their birthplace. It is no joke Jews feel again pressure to their community, whilst Muslims also have become a target for many who want to frighten the world for other religious groups.
Racism has become back into the picture in the bad way, which should make us aware to avoid the pitfall of the previous century.
Yes racism and patriotism has always been the currency of populist rabble-rousing politicians who want to arouse passions and gain power. It’s a shame people still fall for it.
@ Heather Patterson our generation (1940-1950) got on the barricades shouting against all useless wars. Several of us are still fighting with words and ideas against those who call for war with weapons, whilst we want peace in a global multicultural world.
In Europe we can say and see that maturity is not at all respected and for sure not many, ,not to say none instruction given by an elder is expected to be followed, but is laughed away and filed in the cabinet as a senile expression of an ‘elderly’.
Those born in the 1940ies-50ies saw how the world was misguided by those in power and are seeing today that the dictators are again winning terrain and that the rich are becoming richer and are dictating to the poor just like it has always been.
@colettebytes it is true we may live with our aspirations in our hippy time, as some accuse us of rigthly, though we do not mind still wanting to live in our great flower-power time. History always repeating and having it own generations, every age group having its fond and not so fond memories of past events.
For sure we should show the youngsters how we failed in our dreams and aspirations and should put hope in those youngsters who show interest in the environment? As Collete byte says “As oldies, we can remind them of what we have done and what has failed, so they don’t repeat our mistakes…but then we must leave them to decide what is best for their future, because we will no longer be around anyway.”
But we also should warn them for the underlying danger of those who are the negationists, telling the world there is no such thing as global warming, and those who want to deny Holocaust and the world going back to dictatorial states. The right wing parties with Alt-right and Neo-Nazis becoming stronger and stronger.
Yes – We may have failed to build a great utopia but we certainly fought for a better world, an end to pointless wars, respect for the planet, and end to racism, misogyny and intolerance, more respect and equality.
I make no apologies for being an idealist. I’m still standing up for the ideals I stood for when I was young.
We had gains and we had losses. A lot of people lost faith. But we did change the world and I’m damned if I’m going to let the fascists, racists and capitalist destroyers have their way without a battle.
Great post. I have been puzzling over this for a few years on my blog!
Thanks Rachel.
You’re never too old to write Rachel – I have just completed another novel. It’s addictive.
Never fear, I am well into my next book, Opher. I would love you to do our Older Bloggers Survey! It’s on my web site.
I’ll check it out Rachel.