The majority of people in this country do not want to leave Europe. They have woken up to the disaster that Brexit will be. It will cost us a fortune.
But we are going even though it is madness.
So the question is what sort of Brexit do we want?
I know what I want!
- I want tariff free trade
- I want human rights law
- I want workers protection
- I want environmental cooperation
- I want antiterrorist cooperation
- I want cooperation against crime
- I want to travel through Europe without visas and passports
- I want a pluralistic society
- I want an outward looking country
- I want a friendly, welcoming country
- I want a compassionate country
- I want a wealthy, happy country
I want a ‘SOFT BREXIT’ negotiated by a caring Corbyn – not a ‘HARD BREXIT’ negotiated by an uncaring May – full of xenophobia, hate, fear and economic gloom.
May’s problem will be that she no longer looks like a competent negotiator. Strong and stable = inflexible and unmoveable
I quite agree. Negotiating is about a skill set that is fluid – not putting people’s backs up to start with – finding mutual compromise for another – not skills May possesses. Give me Corbyn any day.
She is very wekened whatever happens tomorrow to be honest. OK if she gets 100 seat maj then the Tories will ignore her weaknesses. less than 50 and they will start thnking about next leader. 20 and Boris, Fallon etc will be waiting to trip her. A hung Parl is not beyond belief to me. But young people need to vote and it is unseasonably cool and damp!
sorry for typos – screen is so mucky
Simon I agree with you. I wait with bated breath.
I voted to remain but I accept the democratic decision. to leave. Polls taken since the vote have shown 60%+ in favour of leaving not a close contest. Both parties have already appointed their chief negotiator. Keir Starmer will negotiate if Labour form the next government. I fail to understand why you consider Corbyn would be a good negotiator. In my view he has tunnel vision. It’s his way or no way. He was unable or unwilling to meet a compromise with most of his shadow cabinet. Two-thirds of Labour MPs want him gone. If Labour win this week chaos will result, more so if it is a hung parliament. Infighting and bickering between different factions will be the result of a coalition government. That was made clear by the conduct of the party representatives in the televised Leaders’ debate.
The Blairite cabinet were watered down Tories Bede. They did not want an anti-establishment agenda. He was right to oppose them. They need kicking out of the Party.
May has already annoyed the EU – put their backs up and has shown that she crumbles under pressure. She is in thrall to the Right of her party and won’t stand up to them. She’s antagonistic and weak – the worst combination of all. Brexit under her would be a disaster.
I actually agree with the Lib-Dem stance on Brexit – negotiate the deal – put it to the people to ratify with an option to remain. If it’s a good deal then people will go for it. If it’s a bad deal they won’t. That’s democracy.
I voted to leave; it is what that means that counts. Brexit doesn’t mean Brexit. Starmer will be a good negotiator I think. Ideally Corbyn needs a majority I think. My way or no way? I think he has shown incredible willingness to accept other views?
I voted Remain but we are going. Corbyn will strike a good deal.
The truth is May has nothing further to say – and it shows
We had the empty Brexit means Brexit rubbish. What we need to know is what deal can be salvaged from the mess Cameron created by trying to appease he right-wingers.
Agreed. The last polls don’t look good. So it means everyone really has to make the effort to vote
Fingers crossed that the Tory scum don’t get elected.
Opher, I really don’t think that you appreciate the wholesale corruption that exists in EU upon the first inch you step to your right out of Germany, or anywhere south east.
It’s actually astonishing to read this fabrication of nonsense. It’s cloud cuckoo land.
Plus, where in Europe can one float about without a passport? For UK nationals it’s probably the only ID we may have and it’s a requirement that you carry it at all times, just as it is for Euro’s in their countries whom have to carry ID cards.
This plea for antiterrorist cooperation really isn’t an issue as terrorism has got nothing to do with economic trade.
As for cooperation against crime – that would be a start as we never received much protection from other EU states as their known criminals walked into UK unchecked. Unfortunately, under the last Labour government, it is estimated some 300,000 people walked in completely unchecked and unrecorded, and we don’t know who or where they are.
Of course, it was yourself who stated in a personal manifesto of beliefs about a week or so ago, that terrorism wasn’t a very high priority to the majority of people. I’m sure it was actually point #1.
As for Corbyn – the man has very little experience if any of negotiations at the level required.
He’s so far removed and distanced from the action it would take considerable time for him – if at all possible – to get up to speed, but we don’t have that flexibility with time. He’d be hopeless as he just does not possess the big picture experience. He wasn’t ever a minor feature within the last Labour govt. He came out from nowhere with a previously below average performance record in terms of the Labour party and that’s saying something and you think he can run the country?
Correction: Corbyn and Abbott running the country? Seriously?
As for your theory of negotiation requiring mutual compromise? Oh dear, that theory is instantly doomed to failure.
Rule #1 in negotiation = only compromise on stuff you don’t need or want.
Opher, there is a distinct lack of consistency in your thinking. Last year you were arguing with me over the value of the Blair/Brown government. You praised that government and its policies. You said it increased funding for your school. You supported the invasion of Iraq and justified it on the basis that it got rid of Saddam Hussain (a major point on which we disagreed. I was with Jeremy on that one). Now you compare Blairites as “watered-down Tories”. You describe Tories as “scum”. I am unsure what you mean by that description but it smells to me of the vitriol spouted by many Momentum acolytes instead of rational discussion.
If you recall immediately after the Referendum result some members of the EU began to threaten the UK with “punishment” for voting to leave so I believe the hostility commenced within the EU not with May. Also I believe the hostility expressed by the EU Commission (which is not a democratic body) has contributed to the rise of voters in the UK wanting an EU exit asap.
No Bede, I do not think there is inconsistency.
The Blair government was an inbetween party. Watered down Tories are better than Tories. The Right wing of the Tory Party are, in my view, scum.
I was not in favour of the invasion of Iraq. I rarely am in favour of war. But I could see that there was a case for it being justified. There is a difference. One can be against something while recognising that it is justified.
The Blair/Brown government was very effective financially right up until the world went mad and they borrowed too much to try to shore it up. They were good to the public services and financed schools properly.
There were some voices calling for punishment following Brexit vote but May’s attitude and rhetoric has enlarged that group and hardened attitudes considerably. Her approach I believe will be a disaster. The Labour approach is far more likely to produce good results. It isn’t so gung-ho Land of Hope and Glory like the mad right-wing Brexiteers.
That’s 3 people who saw justified cause to wage war, Bush, Blair and yourself.
You are quite wrong with the assertion of borrowing too much money – it was the wanton manner in which they borrowed this money, that being the most expensive sources possible.
As for May’s supposed attitude and rhetoric (?), what would you expect any leader to say given the unmitigated threatening behaviour of these EU’s?