First the Brexiteers want sovereignty to be decided by British courts and then they scream when it is.
The right-wing media is totally out of order. The right-wing Tories are looking to set up a tyranny not democracy.
The referendum was poorly framed, poorly executed and has resulted in chaos and will I strongly suspect result in the long-term decline of Britain.
I voted remain but I accept what I consider is the most stupid decision that the British people have come up with in a very long time. I listen to what the politicians have to say on the matter and it is plain ludicrous. The reasons for people voting out were many. You can easily enumerate the main ones – sovereignty, to prevent mass immigration, bureaucracy in the EU, to make us better off, fear of terrorism, revolt against austerity, dislike of undemocratic aspects of the EU, to go back to the ‘good old days’, that Britain can do better on its own, as a howl of rage against the establishment and austerity. The fact that most of these in my opinion are complete bonkers and not going to be ‘solved’ by leaving the EU is neither here nor there. We were lied to – but people should have seen through it. They voted and we are stuffed. We are coming out. For Theresa May to suggest that she knows why people voted out is a lie. The reasons were many and complex.
There is not a majority against immigration or a majority for sovereignty. There is not a majority for any one thing. The referendum was binary. It did not tell us anything of why people voted and what % were in favour of what. If you take out all the votes who were just wanting to have a go at the establishment there would not have been a vote to leave.
The question remains how do we leave? There are many options. These need discussing.
The three judges ruled on the law. I knew that a referendum is advisory before it happened. Parliament, not government, can effect it. That is law.
The judges are not blocking Brexit. They are ruling on a constitutional matter. The only body that can decide on Brexit and the type of Brexit is parliament – not a small executive of extreme right-wing Tories. I strongly suspect that parliament will vote for suicide – because that is democracy and the politicians support democracy.
I want a full democratic discussion over the many complex issues involved in leaving the EU. Those decisions will decide jobs, austerity and even death for millions of British people. They are not to be taken lightly and they are not to be decided by a bunch of extreme nutters. Our representatives need a say!
The right-wing fanatics can shriek all they like – it is democratic to discuss these huge weighty issues in parliament. It is tyrannical for a small group of extreme politicians to keep everything secret and make all the decisions themselves.
All the death and rape threats being directed at the judges are disgusting. The hysteria of the media is disgusting. This is part of the hate and extremism that Brexit has unleashed. We’ve allowed a bunch of racist, violent thugs out of the cupboard. We have to find a way to lock them back in. They are an obnoxious minority.
Hey – personally I’d far rather be ruled by Europe rather than the likes of Fox, Davies, May and Reese-Mogg, but I don’t have a choice.
At this moment in time stupidity rules.
Thank heavens we have the law to give us a little protection from the extremes!
You never change and only your view is the one that counts, “all Brexits are a bunch of racist violent thugs” that according to you should be locked back in the cupboard they escaped from. How nice to know that not only I am a racist but so many others I know and millions of others too are. I spoke to a chap today who came here from Poland two years ago, I asked him had he ever had any threats from any English, he looked somewhat surprised at me and said “no, most definitely not”, I asked did he have friends from Poland here and had any of them been attacked, and I told him why I was asking. He told me he has two Brothers living here and Polish friends and “no the English have always been so nice” – so much for your claims over the months that foreigners are always being attacked. If I am as you referred to me in the past as “Far Right|”, I take it you are as “Far Left as possible – don’t bother answering that because you always come out with the same old thing usually downloaded. I trust you are keeping well.
I don’t change Anna. I say what I believe as passionately as always. And you don’t change either – you misinterpret everything I say. I did not say all Brexiters are a bunch of racist thugs. I said that they have allowed a minority of racist thugs to come out of the woodwork and have their day.
I personally know of people who have been abused because they are black or Italian. I suppose you will say to the murdered Polish guys killed by packs of English thugs for no reason other than they are Polish, that they were not really beaten and kicked to death at all? Look at the stats and listen to the hatred that has been unleashed. It has given vent to unbridled violence and racism from a minority of nationalistic thugs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-37227313
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/05/death-arkadiusz-jozwik-post-referendum-racism-xenophobes-brexit-vote
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/30/five-teenage-boys-arrested-after-man-dies-following-attack-in-essex
It’s not me that’s got it wrong Anna. There is real nastiness unleashed by fascist, nationalistic thugs.
I did not say that all Poles have been attacked or that it ‘always’ happens. That’s you putting words in. What is happening is that the fascists have been given licence for their hate and they are having their day.
I did not say you were far-right – I said that you have a tendency to support the far-right – re – Farage, Gove, Fox, May, Rees-Mogg and Davies, Le Penn and other European fascists with Brexit (you don’t get much more right-wing than that do you? They’re the extreme end of the Tory party – then Trump in America – who is supported by every fascist group, Ku Klux Klan, white supremacist and Tea Party member going) – you choose so extreme people to ally yourself with for a supposedly Labour supporter.
But then you’ve already told me in no uncertain terms that you don’t like what I say, that you only flattered me to make a fool out of me, so I’m not sure what to think. I thought we were friends but I was deceived. I won’t make that mistake again.
I find your attacks on me strange. You accuse me of consistently being the same. Yes. You accuse me of arguing my view. Yes. What am I supposed to do? That’s what I do. I run a blog to put my views out. I’m not going to put somebody else’s views am I? I argue my point – what I believe to be true. Exactly the same as you do. I don’t see you listening to anyone. You come out with the same thing. As the hate rises, the pound dives, prices rise, firms move into Europe, the far-right set their agenda against the poor and public services, the economy heads for a dismal future – all you do is deny it is happening.
And yes – I am keeping well – we start our move on Tuesday so very stressed, plus a bunch of family problems, but yes – we are doing well. I hope you are doing your exercises and fixed on SF next year.
This is all so distressing. It’s like reading our papers here. Only here they love to cramp the articles full of pie charts and graphics and figures — half of which are wrong. It’s as if the whole world has gone made, isn’t it, you guys… We’re all at each other’s throats. Even Plato and I had a rather uncomfortable discussion last night. Is this what we want?
No. But once the genie is out of the bag anything can happen. Politics has descended into such a hate-filled cauldron of lies. People choose which lies they believe. I would not have believed the rise of fascism and nationalism in the States amnd Europe. I think the terrorism has really destabilised things – just what they wanted to do!