33 thoughts on “Private/Parochial/Amish Schools = Concentration Camps

  1. I don’t know what the Faith Schools are like in America. I assume it is America you are referring to. Therefore, I won’t speak about your system but your view of Catholic Schools is rather extreme if your comment “Catholic Schools are concentration camps” when it comes to this Country. Have you ever been in a Concentration camp? I have not but I did attend a Catholic School and as a lapse Catholic I sent both my Sons when they were young to Catholic Schools and they had a great education, it certainly was no “concentration camp”. Perhaps you should be asking the Jews what a “Concentration Camp” means. This, the UK, is still a Christian Country albeit some would prefer we “were all one with no faith to worship or believe in”. I hope I never see this Country anything but a Christian Country. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion as I am so would tell you I find what you say utter rubbish. I was not indoctrinated by the Catholic Schools I went to, my late Husband was not indoctrinated by the Church of England Schools he attended and my Children now grown Men were not indoctrinated. We make our own minds up when it comes to Religion. God forbid the day when your attitude would rule the World.

    1. I think the article was referring to the segregation of people into enclaves by religion. Faith schools do indoctrinate. The Muslims are hard at it right now. I would much prefer to integrate rather than segregate. We see the effect clearly in Ireland. The hatred and misunderstanding it fosters.
      I don’t want a generation of radicalised jihadis in Britain. Religion has no place in children’s minds. When they are old enough they can decide from themselves. But once the seed is planted it is hard to escape.
      I certainly don’t want a Christian country. I want a secular country with tolerance and freedom. I want people free to believe in what they want. I do not want religion pushed down people’s throats – least of all children.
      ‘We make our own minds up when it comes to Religion. God forbid the day when your attitude would rule the World.’
      Precisely what I want – people free to make their minds up – not being fed religious dogma before they are old enough to think. My attitude is tolerance. You seem to think that is wrong all of a sudden Anna. In fact everything I say and stand for is suddenly wrong. You no longer like the passion.
      Just ask yourself why these religions want to get their hands on our kids?
      Think what the reaction would be if I set up Atheist schools.
      I think we should teach children to question and be tolerant of all views not indoctrinate them.

      1. Is this “feel sorry for Opher”. It was a ridiculous post. This is a Christian Country and I hope the day will never come when it will not be a Christian Country. Don’t bring Ireland into everything, and if you are to do so get it right. You are not referring to Ireland you are referring to Northern Ireland, where far too many Protgestants hated and still hate Catholics, where Catho.lics hated and feared Protestants. Where one Easter SXaturday the IRA Crucified two British Soldiers, laid them out as to be cruicified, I don’t forget. People have the right to send their Chilkdren to Faith S

      2. It is not a Christian Country. We have had the enlightenment. This is a secular country. The prevailing religion is Christianity. But it is secular.
        No I’m referring to all of Ireland. Eire broke away on largely religious grounds. The IRA had huge support from Eire. The divide in N Ireland is maintained by division between the communities fostered by Faith Schools. They should be changed.
        What is this nonsense Anna? Feel sorry for Opher?

  2. Apologies I really don’t know what is wrong but the screen keeps jumping. You get the meaning, all have the right to send their Children to Faith Schools, Jewish Schools exist are they wrong. If I’m ever fortunate to have Grandchildren I do not want them taught by women wearing a Burka, I would not want my Children being taught about the Koram. If my Grandchildren lived in a Muslim Country that is different, but this is Britain and the language is English not whatever is being forced upon children. People come here to live then obey our Rules, Speak our Language attend our Schools you know what I am saying.
    Terrible that schools particular faith schools are being forced not to allow Children to perform the Nativity Story At Christmas. Next, Christmas won’t be allowed. You look forward to a “one society” then go and find one, I doubt you would have the Freedom of Speech that the UK allows you. It is really bad here in the UK isn’t it Opher!!

    I am not going to agree with you Opher for the sake of it, others can do that but I can’t. You are endeavouring to make me not only feel guilty but look so. Passion? What a very sad World if we all agreed on everything, and you have agreed on that time and time again or maybe I am wrong. Disagreeing does not mean I don’t like you is that what you are trying to prove.

    I am just sad as I walk on our Promenade and go to pay respects at our War Memorial that all those men and women who have sacrificed their lives appear to have done it for nothing. If it is now wrong to feel patriotic and we should no longer accept we are a Christian Country and no doubt forced to speak a different language ete etc etc. It won’t be you leaving the Country if your idea of what you want ever came to fruition and I was still alive I won’t leave this Country I would prefer to leave this World. God help us all.

    1. Anna I am sad to say that you are all muddled up in what you are saying. You are confusing lots of different things.
      In my opinion all Faith Schools should be instantly banned – Catholic, Anglican, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim – the whole bloody lot. They are peddling religion at children, indoctrinating them and that in my opinion is child abuse.
      The last thing I want is my grandchildren to be taught by a religious fanatic in a burqa.
      Christianity is not Englishness. Our real religion is pagan. But I’m not advocating we go back to that.
      We are a secular society where people can choose to believe or not without persecution. That is great.
      I love this country. it’s freedoms are worth fighting for – not the country. The country – God, King, Establishment and all that crap can go hang. I don’t even care about its borders. I would fight for its values and freedoms – tolerance and fairness.
      Language is not part of patriotism.
      I keep telling you and you keep coming out with the same crap – I would not leave this country. I do not want to despite the fact that I know there are plenty other great places to live – Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Portugal ……. now you’ve got me making a list. There are not many places I dislike or many people. But England is the best because we have wrested our rights from the aristocracy and wealthy at a great cost. I take pride in the Diggers, Levellers, Tolpuddle Martyrs, Chartists, Feminists, Suffragettes and all those who gave their lives for our freedoms and equality – Darwin and Huxley and the ones who stood up against the tyranny of the church with their torturing and butchering ways. Those give me pride in my country. Not your nationalistic patriotism.

      1. “I keep telling you and you keep coming out with the same CRAP” really? I am not a child in one of your former classrooms who needs to be lectured by you. So it is only you we should all listen too, you are no longer the teacher. The IRA did not/do not have “huge support” from Southern Ireland. There are a few areas where one can still feel the dislike for the English. Perhaps you could clarify to what period you are referring.

        I will stand up for England at any time. I will fly the St George Flag as and when I feel it appropriate. It is people like you with your “racist, Brexit hatred” are you not forgetting this is Clacton-on-Sea “Brexit Land” wonder you have not thrown that at me. Its suggestions that Patriotism has caused some morons to say the St George Flag is only flown by racists. Then by flying it I am a racist in your terms, I want this Country as a Christian Country not overrun with people we cannot cope with. This Country is changing far to much, just imagine if “the lefties” take over? You say so much, actions what actions?

  3. So what do you guys think about Charter schools? Do you have them there? Definition: a publicly funded independent school established by teachers, parents, or community groups under the terms of a charter with a local or national authority.

    “A charter school is an independently run public school granted greater flexibility in its operations, in return for greater accountability for performance. The “charter” establishing each school is a performance contract detailing the school’s mission, program, students served, performance goals, and methods of assessment.

    Charter schools are public schools of choice, meaning that families choose them for their children. They operate with freedom from some of the regulations that are imposed upon district schools. Charter schools are accountable for academic results and for upholding the promises made in their charters. They must demonstrate performance in the areas of academic achievement, financial management, and organizational stability. If a charter school does not meet performance goals, it may be closed.

    Charter schools can vary a great deal in their design and in their results. Uncommon Schools creates schools based on the principles and practices that have proven successful in producing significant academic gains at high-performing urban charter public schools across the country.”

    I’m curious as to what your feelings about these kind of schools might be. (Just to throw something a little interesting into the mix here. πŸ˜€ )

    1. I don’t see the need and I’m always dubious about the motives for people or groups getting involved with education. They usually want to skew things – religious or business.
      As I said – religion should not be in schools in my opinion and business should not be able to skew the curriculum. Every child deserves the same opportunities.
      Why flexibility? Why relax the rules for one school? That doesn’t make sense to me. The rules are there to ensure every child gets a great education. That’s what they are for. Why have different rules for some? Surely all schools should deliver the same balanced curriculum to the same standards?
      I think all schools should be accountable to the same rules and standards and operate at the same level. In order to do that they need accountability and regular inspection, good management, a broad curriculum and proper funding. Every child deserves an excellent education. I’m in favour of a national curriculum and assistance for schools not producing the goods – help not punishment.

      1. “I think all schools should be accountable to the same rules and standards and operate at the same level. ” (These schools must teach the core curriculum of the state.)

        From what I know of them, their origins may have been with the “No Child Left Behind” thing. It may be that teachers began to feel like that was the dumbing down of schools in the US. My niece in her 9th grade year was SO bored at the school where she had to go. There was no challenge for her at all. They lived on the edge of one of the poorer neighborhoods in Ogden. She would ace her studies and get no feedback whatsoever from teachers as they were so busy working with the kids who were struggling. My sister felt it was penalizing Holly for being a good student. They went to the school board and had her transferred to a school some distance away.

        That was happening a lot. It’s just a guess on my part, but I’m thinking that’s when the teachers decided there had to be more advanced classes, etc. taught or the kids who were ready to move forward were now the ones who were going to get lost in the cracks.

        So while these schools are still held to the same core curriculum as any public schools and their students still have to pass all the same assessments (they’re not private schools, no cost to attend), they are adding more advanced classes to their curriculum. And they’re attracting a lot of families. Possibly would attract more except that for most kids it requires transportation to get there.

        So a Charter school kind of doesn’t fall under any of the three categories up there. That’s why I wondered what you would think about it.

      2. I can see why it happens. So many schools are failing. But in my opinion that is what needs addressing. No school should ever be allowed to be a poor school. If all the schools were brought up to standard with a rigorous scrutiny and aggressive support system and adequate funding there wouldn’t be a need. I think most of the problems with education stem from the state trying to do it on the cheap. You have to pay for qualiy teachers, great facilities, good management and small class sizes. If you skimp it doesn’t work.
        Every child deserves the best and education is fundamental to a good society. This schism into different types of schools is the result of underfunding and lack of care by politicians.

      3. Well I certainly agree with that. And I dislike their concerted effort to allow the lowest common denominator to be acceptable. Does that sound judgmental?

      4. I don’t see anything wrong in being judgemental Cheryl. Education is too important. What worries me with Charter Schools and Grammar Schools is what happens to the kids who are left behind? Are they written off?
        I cannot see why we have to keep reinventing systems. I think it is a smokescreen to keep pressure off. They simply do not fund or value education enough. Every child needs the very best – not just the brightest or wealthiest. They deflect the focus via gimmicks.

      1. They are already there. More stupidity. They can be set up by anyone and do not need to have qualified teachers. Utter insanity. More polical pandering to minority groups like Muslims who want to keep their kids away from western kids.

      2. The teachers may be the difference here. At least in Utah I know they have to hire qualified teachers (Lord only knows, really, what their idea of that is). Though they have a program now that with certain other types of degrees you can come on as a teacher but are required to be constantly taking on-going classes yourself under a mentor’s supervision. Utah is notorious for not putting money into education. This state, of all places, needs them. Mormon families here have SO many kids!

      3. The Mormons need to look at the overpopulation problem me thinks. Religions seem on a course to try out-multiplying each other. It is totally irresponsible!
        The answer is easy – value education!
        Pay teachers well
        Train teachers well
        Build good schools
        Put in good facilities (White boards, computers etc.)
        Put in support – Teaching assistants
        Put in great management
        Inspect and provide assistance for poor standards
        It takes money!
        If you do not fund it properly it will not work. Everyone tries to do it on the cheap and bring in sops – like Charter Schools – to paint over the cracks. A huge number of our most needy end up on the scrapheap.

      4. I’m wondering if they thought it would force the government to reevaluate that program. No Child Left Behind. And as I understand it, they have done that now and think perhaps it wasn’t as effective as they thought it would be. I certainly agree every kiddo needs the best. There are so many extra burdens placed on classrooms here these days. Teachers spend a lot of their own money every year for supplies for the classroom. At church we partner with a couple schools in our neighborhood and take a collection mid-summer for Christmas in July where folks in the congregation go buy all kinds of supplies or money is donated to do that. Then when school starts we take them to the schools. But teachers can’t do that as easily any more. When I helped with 2nd grade assessments a couple weeks ago I was surprised by the workings of the classroom. Every student had an electronic tablet — and I wondered if they were allowed to take them home because the class work was actually carried out on a projector screen rather than on individual papers passed out. And one thing that bothered me was that every teacher wore a microphone in the classroom. Not sure what that said to me, but I didn’t like it.

      5. That microphone business was coming in here to. I didn’t like it. To me teaching is about relationship and having electronics in between you creates distance, a barrier. I never used one. The voice and body language is sufficient. It makes it impersonal. I liked getting up close.
        I know that as a former teacher I could be accused of bias but I do think teaching is incredibly hard. Not only do you have all that stressful contact time with kids – that is the tip of an ice-berg – you have all the preparation time (an hour lesson can takes hours to plan out and put together and you will have more that twenty of those a week.) then you have the marking. That takes hours of tedium every evening. The average teacher here works over sixty hours a week. That is half as much again as other workers. There are all the new initiatives to take on, the bureaucracy, the regular testing and reports, the special needs and knowing every one of your two hundred plus students inside out.The holidays are catch-up preparation and planning. It is exhausting and requires great dedication.
        The stress levels are so high. A number of teachers crash and burn out – they coast and go sick. Alcohol is a big problem. That is why they need small class sizes, good facilities and adequate support.
        My experience of US schools in Los Angeles was that there was insufficient support, facilities and no cross state standards. Each school set its own standards and there was no inspection or demands. Nobody checked what I was doing once during the whole year. Nobody told me what I should be doing. I produced my own programmes and ran them.
        My lower science programme was a joke. I had to mark each lesson out of four. The students received one mark for attending, one for handing something in, one for getting some answers right and one if they got most of them right. The pass mark for accreditation was 50%. I queried this. In effect it meant that if a student attended every lesson and handed a sheet in with their name on they passed. They didn’t have to have learnt anything or get anything right. I tried to introduce some stringency and the kids thought I was harsh and wanted to bale out.
        There has to be nationally set standards that are regularly checked.

      6. Yes. I think your first paragraph is what I felt there, too. Teachers are the most underpaid, overworked people in any country. And here we are trusting them with our kids’ minds. How many students do you usually have per class over there? Here the average is about 25-30.

        Off to do a power-sort of the house from the sloppy weekend. I’ll catch up later. πŸ˜€

      7. Classes have gotten bigger with the austerity of the last five years – about 30 per class.
        This government really does not value education for the masses. They had cut budgets, reduced teacher pay, cut their pensions and increased their workload. So many good teachers have baled out. Morale is so low. Over half new teachers leave within five years. The politicians really do not care about ordinary people. Then they bring in gimmicks like Grammar schools to deflect attention and blame schools for poor standards. I think it is shocking.

      8. “Over half new teachers leave within five years.” That’s about the same rate as here. If a teacher stays for x number of years, the state will pay off their student loans. When that’s done they hightail it outta the position a lot of times.

      9. Teaching has simply become too hard. Unless they reduce contact time so that there is less preparation and marking and teachers can have a life as well as a career they won’t ever have enough – and the ones left will be going through the motions listlessly.
        Children are our future. We need to invest in them.

      10. Too true Cheryl. I have great faith in the kids I taught. They were bright, pleasant, caring young people – full of idealism, energy and creativity. I expect them to make a better go of it than our generation did – as long as they don’t get fooled again.

  4. “ANNA – SOMETIMES YOU TALK CRAP” how very nice of you to say so, is that another compliment from you, I ask? Had a bad day so far have we Opher, or too much wine, don’t like anyone standing up to you, oh dear!! In my response to Cheryl, I see I am now being called stupid, or was that the Government.

    1. β€œI keep telling you and you keep coming out with the same CRAP” really? I am not a child in one of your former classrooms who needs to be lectured by you. So it is only you we should all listen too, you are no longer the teacher.’ – your words
      If you carry on insulting me and shouting then you are going to get a response. It seems that you like handing out insults and being rude but you don’t like being told. I think you have got yourself so wound up with all the Brexit and Trump rubbish that you are not seeing things clearly. You might not like what I have to say about Brexit, Trump and education, and I give you a space to set out your views and reasons. You choose to be rude and personal instead of setting out your rational views. I thought we were friends but you are behaving like a sulky child and keep responding rudely and personally.
      I was very proud to be a teacher. The greatest profession in the world and, in my opinion, the most important. I was also a Headteacher of one of the most successful schools in the country so I have successfully managed a multimillion pound institution. Before you say it, my experience is not confined to leafy suburbs, I taught in Los Angeles in the area with the highest gang-related crime and the highest gang-related killings that year. I taught kids from those gangs.
      A while ago there was a pleasant, friendly interchange. Now there is sulky silence and sniping.
      You seem to take everything I say as a personal attack on you. None of it is – unless I tell you directly – they are my views on some of the biggest issues in modern history. I happen to think differently to you on them. I explain why and you accuse me of lecturing. There are over 7000 people following this blog. I am aware of that when I put out a post.

  5. Very easy to bully and insult a woman, how charming, such manners. But then I have read your books (all 12, how many have others bought or read them?) and they say a lot about your attitude.

    1. I do not bully and insult. I think that was you shouting and being personal. I respond to your rudeness.
      I am pleased that you bought my books but I don’t think you’ve read them all yet have you? I hope they do say a lot about my attitude. That is why I wrote them. Before you went into this unpleasantness you were eulogising about them and left excellent reviews. It seems it is you that have changed.
      A while ago you liked my passion and my outspokenness. Now, because you don’t agree, it is bullying.
      Do you really think that the way you have been addressing yourself of late has been friendly or pleasant. It has not. It has been extremely disrespectful and rude. I have put up with it for a while. But if you want to be rude I will respond in kind. A friendship is built on respect. If there is none there is no friendship. I have found some of the things you say most unpleasant and untrue.
      I do not mind you not agreeing. I give you space to argue and put your case. I do not expect you to accept what I say. I have always enjoyed arguing a case – but not abuse. As for bullying – if you remember back to the referendum vote – I never once told you personally how to vote or put any pressure on you to change your mind. My posts were all aimed at a wide audience.
      You know what I think about Education, Trump and Brexit – you align yourself with extreme right-wing views and tell me you’re a Labour supporter. Seems strange to me. You seem very muddled up to me.
      I hope you do sort yourself out and get to San Francisco. I have tried to support you in and will continue to do so.

      1. How dare you speak to me in such a manner. I could hardly shout on the internet. “Personal and rude” in what way. If I recall are these not the words you constantly used when talking to and about Andrew, or will you have a convenient lapse of memory then. Of course he wouldn’t allow you to bully and patronize him, I on the other hand was far too easy a target for you.
        How many times have you made it clear to me you regarded me as a racist, why because I don’t want to see this Country forced to take all the immigrants/migrants. My dislike for Obama because he has achieved nothing in 8 years, you turned everytime into a question of his being black, I don’t give a damn what colour he may be, he is useless yet you persisted with your questioning until you could force me to say what you wanted to hear. The ridiculing because I am not for “One World one people” as you want. How many times have I read here the arguments going back and forth with you and someone else, and that person would win everytime but when it came to me I would be subjected to being “lectured talked down to like a child in a classroom, you are not the state school teacher, anymore.

        Yes I have read all your books all of them, or do you want to question me again. A habit of yours trying to catch me out, ie today’s post. I flattered you, that’s what women do with men, and men like it. You go on about Trump, deny the rape Clinton did. Defend the wife for standing by a serial sex pest her husband.

        “Before you went into unpleasantness” what are you talking about, you certainly don’t make sense. You are coming across as some bitter twisted individual.
        So I have been disrespectful and rude have I, have I indeed – and you of course have not been patronizing and mocking and endeavouring to make me look a fool. I have aligned myself to “extreme right wing views”, how interesting considering I am not even going to vote in the next election when that comes. As opposed to your support for the “far left antisemitic views of Corbyn”, antisemitic are his views he has yet to deny, or perhaps you know better, and still IRA supporter sidekick of his.

        No I am not muddled up, I will tell you what I have been, I have been too soft and trusting that, I have most certainly have been. Friendship, you do have this bad memory Opher, I have it well recorded when you told me late one night “FRIENDSHIP ANNA – FORGET IT” your words not mine, yours. Not quite yourself then or is it the truth will out when too much taken.

        You have the gall to say to me “I hope you do sort yourself out and get to San Francisco”. “Sort myself out from what”, what exactly are you trying to suggest, do you not think I don’t know what those first few snide comments mean. Careful. As for the rest, oh please!! Such vicious, bitchy comments that is how you appear. Have no doubt I will get to San Francisco. As for “I have tried to support you” really in what way, thats another question you won’t answer, you are so good at that. You quote ” I will continue to” why to make yourself look good, when you have accused me of being rude personal and all the other things you have accused me of – I am always so nervous in case I may say anything that is personal. You don’t answer questions you just go off on one of your long, long rants trying to make yourself look big and good, you are not interested in what others write or say only what you have to say. After all I have been told, to quote you above, “ANNA – SOMETIMES YOU TALK CRAP”, now according to you, the use of Capitals is SHOUTING!! I just looked at the time you sent that message, problem?

        You won’t accept this as comments written honestly, you will treat this and boast “rudeness/shouting/abuse” same old rubbish you come out with. You will not even read it as it should be read You did not have the decency to send a private email pointing out your snide comments, to which privately I would have responded to these “problems” you appear to be having, you wanted to show me up, publicly that is so pathetic.

      2. The message is further up the page Anna – no capitals. I didn’t shout.
        If you have read all 12 of the books you bought you have kept quiet about nine of them.
        I have no idea what you are talking about regarding ‘Friendship Anna – forget it.’ I have no recollection of any such conversation.
        I’m sorry but a lot of this is in your head.
        I was referring to your health problems getting sorted so that you could go to San Francisco. So much you take the wrong way when it is not intended.
        All the best Anna – I’ll leave it there.

  6. Why should I mention the remaining 9 books, I don’t review every book I purchase via Amazon, I prefer to buy majority of my books from a Bookseller of my choice. I chose not to review your books, I did not like them. You are so insulting in suggesting I am not telling the truth, re what you said that late night, ie friendship, The Exact Words, I have. Like the Politicians, your comments “I have no recollection of any such conversation”, you are so obvious. I know what you say and I know how you say things, not in my imagination, I can assure you. Unlike you, I have an extremely good memory. Opher, if someone tells lies they have to have a good memory!! You trip yourself up.

    I don’t take anything the wrong way, I take things they way you intend them, you believe you are so clever, you always manage to squirm your way out of a problem, or so you believe. A little bit of flattering makes fools of some men.

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