Brexit means Brexit.
What a stupid thing to say!
Just as there were a whole range of reasons in peoples minds for voting to get out of the EU there is a spectrum of ways of going about it.
The two ends of the spectrum are:
A soft Brexit – in which we break ties with the EU but stay in the European Market.
Or a Hard Brexit – in which we break all ties with Europe.
Theresa May is assuming that the British people voted for a complete break. That is rubbish. The question was never put to them. She is making gross assumptions. I am convinced that the vast majority of people in this country do not want to completely break the country financially, throw away their grandchildrens’ future in the process and cut themselves off from European culture.
The cost of a soft Brexit (according to treasury estimates) will be around a staggering £116 Billion. The cost of a hard Brexit will be double that – 8% – an eye-watering £232 Billion. It sure makes our £8.5 Billion contribution look miniscule. So much for extra cash for the NHS – £350 million a week. What a lie! I know who will be the ones suffering! It won’t be the bankers!
The country was duped and voted out. I am sure that a good percentage of the Brexiteers consider the cost (socially, culturally and financially) worthwhile. I know a lot more will think it a hard Brexit is not what they voted for.
We have voted. We are going out of Europe. I personally think that is a disaster but democracy has spoken.
However – how we go out is yet to be decided and I am not in favour of a hard right government, with the likes of Fox, Davies and May, taking us on a path to ruin.
I want democracy – I want the sovereignty of parliament to vote and decide which deal we go for. That is democracy. The opposite is tyranny!
The Stone Roses ‘All For One’ should have been played in all streets all over the Island on 23th June. Nobody can make it alone in this troubled world. But that’s history, now smart politicians (who? where? when?) should prevent complete isolation (IMO) …
Let’s hope we have enough smart politicians to provide the intelligence necessary (and not the dogma)!
Well we can look forward to that stupid woman Minister of Corbyn’s who is advocating massive protests outside the American Embassy – THAT WILL REALLY HELP. Like that “Chakrabutty” and her comments, what an insult putting her in the House of Lords. Corbyn against the Honours system and The House of Lords, he has quickly become power mad. “Chakrabutty” Against Grammar Schools and she sends her kid to a very expensive Private School, they make me bloody sick, two faced bastards. The hypocrisy of Corbyn really sticks in my throat. I can’t be bothered to vote for any of them.
In politics Anna it is always the lesser of two evils. I thought it was protests outside the Russian embassy about the bombing in Syria? I thought you liked Corbyn/
Why keep stating it’s £350 mil a week, when you know it’s £164? Everybody and their dog knows this.
I know that but that was not what Boris and Gove were telling people.
Not Gove. just on Boris’s bus.
But you shouldn’t follow suit, as it kind of dilutes your case.
Well Gove was managing the campaign and the two of them worked hand in glove. It was banded about by Gove and Boris and even when challenged they both refused to admit that it was not right.
The £8.5 Billion was the adjusted figure – taking into account the various rebates and payments back.
But I’ll take your point and I won’t mention the £350 million again.
But Gove had the decency to fully explain the figure, down to it’s net breakdown. So did Boris… eventually.
I’ll take your word for that. I never heard them accept they were wrong.
Isolationism seems to be the thing of the day over here, too. Does May have the power to make this decision on her own? The only thing that’s kept me from freaking out about Trump is knowing that this government has so many checks and balances that he would have to go through. (We’d STILL have to put up with his bratty tantrums, however. Poor spoiled little rich kid.)
And Clinton isn’t? Bill Clinton’s face as he entered the auditorium for that second debate was fabulous to see. If she wins, the White House can look forward to more of Bill taking his p…k out. Poor America, no choice and whoever wins I suspect there will be lots of violence.
I can’t see how Hilary can be blamed for the infidelities of her husband? I doubt she’s happy about it.
Any mud they can sling they will sling.
That seems to be what is meant by politics these days. It’s not about policies.
Oh for a better world. I hate this inward looking isolationist view that thrives off fear and hatred. One world – one people!
Well at least it looks as if even the Republicans have had enough of him and are ditching him. It looks like his goose is cooked. We’ll see – plenty twists and turns in the few weeks left.
So you’ve never thought what may be the cause of these infidelities?
She could not possibly have had any part of that?
Why did she hang around after that?
Too afraid to lose all that was due to her and coming her way?
I thought you said you understood women!
You don’t!
Who knows? That’s all conjecture, surely?
I don’t remember saying I understood women. Who does? In fact I wrote a poem about not understanding women. They are complex creatures just like men.
For goodness sake Opher, she can’t be blamed, when she ridiculed and still does the women that he sexually assaulted and even raped. “Standing by my man” her performance that time sickened me, standing by him once fair enough but time after time. She is all for Womens Rights looks like it, when she stands by a man that can’t control himself. You look in the face of a woman sexually assaulted or worse raped and you tell them the wife that stuck up for him was right to do so. You look in the face of any woman sexually assaulted or raped and see the damage, it lasts a lifetime. Before I get corrected yes Boys/Men are assaulted/raped too and those scars never leave. Clinton like the husband is no innocent. Whatever mud is slung at her she deserves, she slings enough.
I am not defending either one of the candidates but don’t tell me please she can’t be blamed, she is married to him they use their money to get him off. Rape is Body mind and Soul destroying.
I have never heard her condoning rape. Staying with your man despite his infidelities is not condoning rape, surely?
You do like to twist things don’t you. Did I say she condoned Rape. Did I say “staying with my man” as she put it was condoning RAPE, no it was them saying we are the clintons you can’t touch us. Ask your Wife if you had sexually assaulted women/raped one or more how long would she remain with you. As far as I am concerned any woman who knowingly stays with a man that has carried out such attacks on either sex is as bad as the husband. No man or woman has the right to touch the sexual organs of another person without permission. Believe me you never forget what is done to you, never.
I’m sorry Anna – I don’t understand. Where does this rape come from? Clinton abused his power to have sex with interns – but rape? Where was the rape? From my understanding they were more than willing at the time. Or did I miss something?
“One World One People” what’s this a John Lennon point of view. There is no such thing as “One People” all happy getting on together, you have America tearing itself apart because of eight disastrous years of an ineffectual President in Obama, and yes before you remind me, I do dislike him always have. And no before you suggest or hint at it, its not because of his colour let’s get that one all done and dusted. America having two of the worst Candidates I can ever recall but its America’s choice not ours. You have the Middle East you have ISIS and all the other Terrorists in the World, you have a democratic vote in this Country to pull out of Europe and the argument by those that lost still goes on. How much more can be said about this wonderfully safe and charming World of ours that you believe we should be “One People”!!
But Obama has a 55% positive rating – more than any other President at this stage I believe. And the main reason he has been ineffectual is because of the way the Republicans have stopped all the legislation and stopped him doing anything out of pure political chicanery.
Of course Opher there is no other reason is there. Is that why poor black Americans hate him.
Really? So the Republicans wrote Hilary’s Health Reform reports, concluding it would be too expensive!
Ah well, that explains all that then. Tidy.
That’s not true though Anna. In 2012 85% of blacks supported Obama – 6% Republican.
In 2016 87% of Blacks think Trump is racist. Less than 2% will vote for him. 87% are voting Democrat. That is an increase.
The media has been full of -‘What has Obama done for the black community’ but he did not get elected to just focus on the black community. He was elected to represent everyone.
The health reforms are common sense. They desperately need health care for poor people. The republicans don’t give a shit about poor people. When I was living there that was the mantra they came out with all the time. The poor deserved everything they got. The down and outs should just die. Who cares? The land of haves and have nots. If life put you on the streets you deserved it. The rich get excellent private care at a huge cost and the poor get sod all. What a callous system. I experienced first hand when my two-year old son needed an operation there, when my daughter lived there and had her kids and when one of her friends had a baby with a heart defect. The system stinks and the republicans have opposed it right left and centre. A plague on them. Clinton pointed out the scheme chosen was too expensive. It probably is – but something has to change and good on them for trying to get it changed.
The only way to build a better world is to act globally and recognise that all people are of equal importance and equal worth. Building a world on such inequality and injustice is creating the war and stupidity. We have to have some idealism or else give up.
You better tell ISIS that then. To quote Trump “Words just words”.
And how does that work when a quarter of the world believes in a religion that preaches death to all those unbelievers.
We’re certainly not equal in their eyes.
You’re favourite author Salman Rushdie will confirm this.
You don’t beat ISIS with bombs. Bush started ISIS with bombs. You defeat such a destructive ideology with words and education.
I’m a pacifist but I support the destruction of ISIS with force because it needs the heart ripping out. But that isn’t going to stop the hatred. The hatred has to be countered with education. Hate breeds hate. Violence breeds violence. We saw it in Ireland and we’re seeing it in Palestine. What 76 years and still raging – more hate and violence now than ever.
23% of the world are Muslim. Not all Muslims believe in world domination, intolerance or death to all non-believers. All the Muslims I know are not after cutting my head off. When I’ve been in Muslim countries the majority of people I meet are respectful and friendly.
The fanatic imbeciles who follow these death cult views are a minority. As you see in Germany – the people who handed the terrorist over – tied him up and took him to the police – were immigrant Muslims. They did not want to be associated with the nutters.
I’m no lover of religion and Islam is one of the worst, but you cannot tar them all with the same brush. The increase in fanaticism has been created by the way the West has acted in the Middle East – Israel, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, etc. We stirred it up and now we’re bleating. The violence and death fuelled the hatred. We have to find a better way.
Education is the better way.
That is just one reason Trump is a moron. He would go in blazing and we’d count the body bags and end up with a worse problem – just like Bush created. Wading in like John Wayne is not the answer.
The only reason I support action against ISIS is because I see that illegitimate Caliphate as a rallying call and radicalising focus. It needs nullifying. But that should be done by the Arabs themselves. Obama has exactly the right policy. He’s supporting Iraq and Turkey and the elements fighting ISIS, not leading them. They cannot then claim that it is a crusade and radicalise a million more.
I don’t think you understood that. My Republican comment was in jest.
Clinton is a Democrat, just in case you’ve overlooked that.
It was Clinton who got fined $450k for concocting a false report on the introduction of new health reforms.
What are you trying to defend here?
I like John Lennon. He was no fool. He said things and he did things. Better than being a warmonger.
Andrew – No – when you are so busy attacking everything I say in a knee-jerk reaction it is sometimes hard to determine what you say in jest and what you actually believe.
I said there’s 3 in my building, not just 3 that I know!
I know many hundreds of people, through all kinds of avenues during my life.
So many in fact that it’s nigh on impossible for me to walk up Great Western Rd to Byers Rd and back without a dozen stops for chats.
I’ve only been witness to one incident, about a year ago and he was some low-life drunk, shouting abuse with his skanky girlfriend in tow. He took a good doing from the 2 barbers that came out from their shop next door to ours to see what was going on. He ran into ours so I cranked him over the head with our baseball bat (usually used for shoplifters). He was a bloodied dizzy mess by the time the Police arrived. Of course, nobody knew anything about anything.
Given that our shop was in a Muslim area – yes, they do exist – despite your guffaw of such a fact last week – with many Muslim guys buying under the counter type stuff, it wasn’t particularly difficult to be seen to be doing the right thing under the circumstances.
I just see this as a new “hot” topic and something that definitely isn’t new or has sprung out of nowhere because of the Brexit result. It’s just being given much more focus for attention to suit whatever news media’s agenda.
Where I live, if we were to imprison everybody for such offences – say the abuse between Rangers (Protestants) and Celtic (Catholic) fans, we’d need a building something the size of Wales to accommodate them all in.
But you’d have them all imprisoned, wouldn’t you?
However, our courts take a different stance and steer towards “social education”.
Well I’m sure different parts of the country have different problems.
The fact that you haven’t seen it does not mean it isn’t happening. 41% increase in reported hate crime, backed up by the stories I’m hearing from a variety of my friends who have experienced nasty incidents as a direct result of an altered attitude, lead me to conclude that its real and it’s you that simply does not want to accept it.
You’re big on facts but seemingly only the ones that support what you believe.
There has been an effect. I hope it stops. It needs highlighting and some action taken – even if it is only a public notice from the government to stop and the threat of a crackdown.
I’m not complacent like you.
Excuse me – it was me who cranked the guy over the head with a baseball bat – and you call that complacent?
What would I have to do to not be complacent in your eyes – big hard-as-feckin–nails-Opher, eh? Kill him?
Blimey, you’re an arm-chair commentator with all the balls of a eunuch.
I said I’ve only been witness to one incident and I haven’t heard of any others.
I’m terribly sorry to have to report that I personally know of no others.
Unless you’d prefer that I start making things up to give some leverage towards this “41%” increase. that we are all supposed to believe.
Would you have us all walking the streets making inquiries on this or something?
If this really was any kind of problem, with 64 million people involved, I’d expect that figure to be 14,100%.
Complacency is conveniently denying that there is a problem simply because it doesn’t fit neatly with your view.
Complacent is saying it’s all hunky dory when clearly there are major problems. The pound has now dropped 13%, prices are rising and the shit hasn’t started yet.
When you have a problem – face up to it and deal with it. And I don’t mean with a baseball bat.
Sorry Opher you asked me a question about Corbyn, I did not answer. I did like Corbyn and supported him but he has become two faced, I don’t like hypocrites. Condemning Grammar Schools for one when the majority of his bench send their kids to expensive Private Schools, like that “Chakrabutty”. How dare they tell us you are not allowed to send your children to a Grammar school but its ok for us to send our children to very expensive Private Schools, that’s just one reason.
Oh I agree with that. We should abolish Grammar Schools, Free Schools, Faith Schools and Private Education. But that is small fry compared to the shit that the Tories are doing.
No one has the right to stop a parent sending their child to a Private School, even those not rich are known to save in order to have the child given the best education. If I had the money I would do that. What I am getting at is the so called Labour lot “chakrabutty” and the rest who say “no grammar schools” but send their kids to Private schools, two faced. This is still a Christian Country and Church of England Schools/Catholic schools should remain.
I think the reason that State Schools are underfunded is because the rich don’t care – they send their kids privately. Do away with private schools and the standards would rise; they would properly fund them; we’d have lower class sizes, better pay and all the materials necessary – just like the private schools have. I’d abolish them tomorrow.
There is no equation between private schools and grammar schools. That is not hypocrisy. Private schools are not grammar schools or anything like. There are a whole range of private schools – some good and some bad. The rich buy small class sizes, great teachers and good facilities in order to give them an advantage. All schools should have those standards.
Grammar schools are selection by ability to cream off the top and deprive the bulk of schools of that ability and aspiration. It’s an obnoxious system of elitism that the rich buy into by paying for tuition to get them through.
I don’t think Labour MPs should send their kids private but I can see why they do when the State system is so underfunded.
Couldn’t agree more and living outside the UK I have just experienced the euro matching the £ so I could be £300 a month worse off on my pension. Prices will go up in the UK soon too. I worry about our country and its new found attitudes. Unfortunately most people around me just get on with their life and are surprised by the unplanned nature of Brexit and wonder at our uninformed approach to politics. I feel for EU citizens in the UK and the uncertainty they may have but also that there has been so much more hate crime. I have had one experience of anti British feeling from a rich Porsche owner. We were told to ‘ just get out and Brexit Off! It was probably more amusing than what has been happening to people in the UK. However, we are being seen as arrogant and uninformed and Boris doesn’t help either! It seems there is a feeling of surprise that the British could take such a risk with the future of our country. I hope eventually for the sake of young people in Britain that we will regain the tolerance, prosperity and environmental stability that our young folk deserve. Now I will just Brexit off myself otherwise I will be called a moaner and I have never moaned before this awful uncertainty in the hands of politicians we didn’t vote to be in charge of this tremendous challenge. Love you UK or Reino Unido but there seems to be so much division now.
I agree with you Georgina. We are and will pay a heavy price. It hasn’t begun yet. It is not just the money – though our grandchildren will pay a heavy price and public services and the poor will suffer greatly – it is the change in attitude that is so appalling. I keep hearing of abuse to children of friends and wives of friends who are Italian, Dutch and French who have been sworn at, abused and given the cold shoulder at work. They are so upset, angry and frightened. They have lived here for years and suddenly feel unwelcome and threatened. They want out. It is breaking up families and destroying lives. Extremely unpleasant.
This is not the caring, tolerant country I want.
That sounds awful. I sense a return to the struggles of the 1980s. Am sure the rich financiers that semi support our economic system will go to where there’s more money to make.
It is awful. We had friends round the other day whose son has married an Italian girl. She’s worked here for years and was really happy. She’s been spat at on the bus, shouted at, been cold-shouldered at work and one of their kids came home the other day and asked to change his name to an English name because he is being teased and bullied. She’s in tears every night and wants them all to leave and go to Italy. He’s an architect so he can work over there. They are seriously considering it.
That’s the psychological impact of Brexit. The government demanding that businesses report all foriegners and school report the origin of vthe children creates a climate of xenophobia, fear and gives licence to racists.
So 23% isn’t close enough to a quarter for you – like I didn’t know that or anything?
Thanks – I’ve taken accurate and concise note.
Here’s some further accuracies.
It’s got nothing to do with education. Unless the educators of the Koran tear these pages out and start again – which they refuse to do.
You must actually read the Koran – it’s all there in black and white.
(have you actually ever read it?)
No matter how you try and dress it up and mask this ethos with one-off peaceful incidents that conflict with the teachings, nothing will reduce the power of their text – which dictates every living morsel of their very being. There is nothing beyond this book. Ask any Muslim this, be it latent, moderate or fundamentalist.
To what degree do you really know any Muslims? Seriously?
When you were in Muslim countries, you were on short holiday, shopping with money in your pocket.
When you’ve lived in their midst a few years, which you obviously haven’t, you’d have a completely different point of view – believe me. You have no idea what goes on.
Yer average “peaceful” Muslim has no say in any matter – educated or otherwise.
Again, your naivety worries me.
Sweden will be a Muslim country by 2030.
Norway by 2049.
Muslim birth rate in Europe is 5 fold that of Europeans, therefore, it’s only a matter of time.
Gaddafi’s words ring true.
Where did you get this Trump nonsense “going in blazing” garbage from?
He’s the guy that’s being saying the very opposite – in fact, exactly what you wish for – talking and negotiation. He’s expressly said, loud and clear to all and sundry that this is what he would do.
You just made that up. You’re being divisive and serving no purpose with such inaccurate conjecture. But as long as you feel superior thinking that way – although others can see you coming.
What Obama and crew are doing throughout the entire region will solve nothing and only encourage it. Their policy of infiltrate – stir it up – watch it explode into violence – bomb – rebuild – is the programme devised by Kissinger and Bush Snr back in 2000 – and you’ve bought into it.
You think that’s the right thing to do?
Do you realise that the US supports the Shiite’s in Iraq, yet the Sunni’s in Syria?
They will support which ever group is the closer to the regime change that they wish to impose.
There’s no rationality to this other than an expression of power and greed.
And you’re buying this?
You very recently attended a talk with an author that gave you what would appear to be at least a brief outline of the agenda – and apparently you were impressed.
Yet here you are only a matter of hours later coming out with this!
And you wish the Arabs to sort it out!
Where does one start here?
Tell me, what is the point of you engaging in any kind of discussion with this stuff when you are just SO far off out of the loop? Either that or a compulsive hypocrite – at least something of that nature.
I even gave you the name of Kissinger’s 2000 document for you to check out yourself as I sincerely thought you’d be interested in that.
Seemingly not and you’d prefer to muddle on using your good old tried and tested “wish list” as tools for debate.
You must be tired or something – or completely switched off.
I’m keeping this short Opher, but man, you wholesale confound me at times.
Well I had a Muslim friend round for a meal only last week. I’ve taught a number of Muslims. I’ve always had Muslim friends since I was in my teens. I don’t share your view that they are all blood-thirsty psychopaths planning to take over the world.
All immigrant birth rates are high – they decline to fit in with endemic populations. That is the pattern.
Gaddafi was a madman. I don’t hold him as a font of all knowledge.
I am well aware of what it says in the Koran. I also am aware of the similar shit in the Bible. Have you read what I’ve said on the Koran , Bible and religion? Burqa’s ISIS and terrorism?
While people follow these medieval doctrines we will have trouble. While they indoctrinate children we will have trouble. We have to educate kids to question. Most religious people pick and choose which bits to believe. Only the fanatics believe it all. Education undermines the power of religion. It is the only long-term solution. All that war and bombing has achieved is to radicalise. If you look back to the 70s there was a much more secular society in places like Pakistan. There weren’t the burqa and beards. They wore western clothes and listened to western music. We’ve put the clock back.
I have railed against the Kissinger policy – bomb and rebuild – how to make profit. It is what is responsible for the mess the world’s in. You’re so busy attacking everything I say and defending fascists like Trump that you don’t listen to anything I say.
I say again – your extreme fear of Muslims colours all your thoughts. You pick the facts to support your arguments.
You are big on ‘facts’ Andrew but short on being intuitive or long term solutions.
I was under the impression that you were very busy packing up, moving house – yet lo and behold, there’s time for dinner with the Muslims? Really? I might not be able to swallow that, truth be told.
I’m not referring to school kids in a school. That isn’t “knowing” anybody at all.
It was me who brought up Kissinger’s plan TO YOU – prior to that you had NEVER mentioned it. So please don’t try and start telling me you knew about it all along, as you plainly didn’t.
So you don’t think Gaddafi’s words possess any grain of truth? Seriously?
So you think immigrants production of children declines to “fit in” with endemic populations? What utter rot. What a load of guff. Get real. All evidence suggests you are entirely wrong.
You just can’t get to the point where you can envisage an Islamic UK can you?
The whole programme has purpose and you can’t see it.
Because a few appear to be tolerant (they’re being tolerant!) of your company in no way dissuades away from the Islamic agenda. They’ve fooled you and some.
Which goes some way as to why you appear confounded by events in Pakistan. The Islamic agenda is ON. That’s why Pakistan and Iran were taken back to the 7th century in many respects. This has nothing to do with western intervention – but simply their own leaderships.
I’m not defending any fascism. For a start, Trump isn’t a fascist. You’ve been misusing the term in liberal quantities.
I am most definitely against fascism – and the worst case scenario, that being Islam, is where you seem to want to allow a great deal of leeway and brush the bits you don’t like under the carpet because you might have one Muslim friend.
That isn’t good enough.
I’ve told every Muslim that asks me what I think about Islam.
I tell them I hate it and feel very sorry for them having it rammed down their throats.
I say again – your nonchalance towards this rapid endemic sweeping throughout our nation will be the death of your grand children. Wakey Wakey!
You’re big on emotional wooly-minded liberal clap-trap and extremely short of a firm grasp of reality.
Andrew,
Don’t call me a liar. When I tell you I had a Muslim friend round to dinner a few days ago that is exactly what I did.
I have known him for some fifty years.
My Muslim friends are not limited to kids I taught! I lived in the South and London before moving up here. It was a rich cosmopolitan environment. I have wide friendship groups scattered across the country and abroad.
Are you seriously telling me I don’t know what Kissinger was about? Get real.
No I don’t take Gaddafi as a source of sound information. He was a madman mouthing off.
Read up on immigration social psychology. Immigrants always have higher birthrates and then it declines. We’ve heard the same crap about the Jews, Jamaicans and Asians.
I do have liberal values – proud off them. But not woolly-minded. I’m intelligent enough to think through my views. That is just insulting. That’s like me saying you are big on an Islamaphobic hystetrical response that is out of proportion.
To be honest with you Opher I find it so hard to believe all this crap about people being attacked/spat at abused etc etc – you are always going to have something but you are making it out that this country is now full of racists those that wanted out of Europe – so I am a racist too. This Town is full of Poles/Romanians and heavens knows how many others. As for people being attacked because they are foreign and since we came out of Europe – no reports have been made. When you talk about Ireland, get your facts right you are referring to Northern Ireland I take it, because if your are referring to Ireland that is the South and the British caused all the bitterness that still remains in some parts of the South.
I have it first hand from friends Anna – and they haven’t reported it. The reported crime is up a staggering 41%. There is no doubt that it has unleashed a huge wave of racism.
I’m not saying that you or most of the brexiteers are racist. But the vote has empowered the racists and xenophobes to abuse people. I know that for a fact.
The vote to come out of Europe has the Country running with Racists, that is what it sounds like from what you have said. So that means that the majority in this Town that voted to come OUT are racists, my heavens they should all be out on the streets then looking for foreigners to “bash up, spit on, abuse” yet I have not seen one there are no reports of any such thing. You may know a few friends who have been abused and its not new to them, if true, they have had it all in the past. Does not make it right, neither is it right that you should be writing that this Country is full of racists because we came out of Europe.
No it doesn’t Anna. There are a tiny minority or unpleasant National Front/British Movement racists. What it has done is emboldened them to become more obnoxious. They think they have been given licence. You take things the wrong way and far too personal. That is not what I said or intended.
The reports are all out there – 41% increase in hate crime – that is just the reported ones. All the incidents I have heard of went unreported. It’s out there Anna. My friends families have not previously been abused or made to feel unwelcome. One of our friends was telling us how her doctor who is Spanish was in tears over things that had been said. I’m not making it up Anna. It needs dealing with.
The country is not over-run with racists – but they are there. I did not say the country was over-run with racists. Please do not put wrong words in my mouth. It isn’t true.
I find a number of the things you say quite upsetting. You are misreading what I say. All that business about abusing that girl – as if I would incite or sneer and joke. I never would and you should know me a lot better than that.
I know full well that the British stirred up the trouble in Ireland right back from Wellington and on. Obnoxious policies. But no worse than they did through the empire. They were arrogant, racist and ruthless. Makes me ashamed.
I most definitely know a lot more foreign people than you do.
For a start I have 3 just in my building.
I see some of the others around and there’s no such incidents as far a they are concerned. It’s just media blowing everything out of proportion – again. They’ll place the slightest incident into the news bulletin just for gravitas.
I’m not buying it as it isn’t truthful.
How do you know that? You don’t know who my friends are or where they are from? That is a gross assumption.
How can you base your opinion on such a small sample?
I know of incidents that have directly effected friends of mine because of Brexit and the change of attitude. They didn’t report any of them but they should have done.
I’m not lying.
The stats of what has been reported speak for themselves. You can selectively believe what you want.
So you had dinner with one guy you’ve known all these 50 years. Righty. So automatically he isn’t going to be hard-boiled.
No you didn’t know about Kissinger & Bush Snr’s white paper on the new agenda for America in the 21st century – otherwise we’d never have heard the end of it from you.
Let’s us not pretend here.
In no shape or form did I refer to any other group’s population growth – that’s your off-kilter conjecture that hasn’t any relationship to what is a fact.
You either understand the connotations of that fact or you don’t.
I’m afraid to have to tell you that Gaddafi was indeed correct.
You can blow and bluster all you like – but it’s all there, staring you in the face.
And you think you’re intelligent enough to “think through”!
Give us a break, change the record, get real.
You may not live to see The Black Cloud of Islam, but your grand children most certainly will.
God Andrew the assumptions you make. You’d be so surprised!
The silly thing about all this is that I am one of the people most opposed to religion and Islam in particular of anyone I know. I rate TBCOI as one of Roy’s best. I think Islam and its indoctrination programme is evil. I say it often enough.
Where we differ is only in level of paranoia. I don’t think they are near to taking over the world just yet. You let your fears run away with you and attack people who share your views on the obnoxious curse.
Yes you did refer to population growth – Muslims breeding at 5 times the rate.
Population is one of the biggest issues I go on about. The stupidity is unbelievable. Between the Hindus, Mormons, Africans, Catholics and Muslims we are swamping the world with people and wiping out the natural world.
I reckon we’ll destroy the ecosystem long before the Muslims impose stupid sharia law on everyone.
Yes I did – but no other population contingent.
I didn’t mention any other contingent. Only you.
No other population contingent is growing at such a rate.
I made that clear.
What part of that didn’t you understand?
Read the ACTUAL TEXT and stop making things up to suit your inner-manifested fears – that aren’t mine.
I would say that I am not in the least bit paranoid about it.
I’m resigned to the fact that it will happen.
Being resigned is not being paranoid.
I’m not paranoid about anything, while you most definitely are with a whole host of subjects.
You are the Doom & Gloomster personified.
Yeah – Dr Doom the Optimist.
I make nothing up Andrew. You read what I write and stop twisting and conjecturing about things you know nothing about.
The African diaspora is growing at the fastest rate. The South Americans are growing fast too. You’re selective Andrew. Believe what you like.
If only you would adhere to your own statement…
But I very clearly did not make mention of any other sector, did I? No. End of.
I was also very clearly talking about the UK and only the UK, right?
And yet you make claim that I know nothing about it?
Behave yourself.
So Africa also has a problem. Well I never! Really? Like I don’t know about Africa?
So tell me all about your working life in Kenya – the then Aids capital of the world.
How did you deal with the matter of telling 65 members of your staff that they had tested positive? Prey tell.
I’d be really interested to know how you dealt with that one.
How did your sex education programme go. Did it work as you had hoped?
I’m all ears.
I’ve already told you before that we in my business got reports on stuff that you, as a general member of the public would just not be privy to.
Andrew you are probably an authority in everything. You certainly claim to be. You have access to completely unbiased info on everything under the sun and select it without prejudice. You expect me to be a mind-reader when you present information. To know when you’ve put it in jest and when you are just referring to the UK. You come over arrogantly and rude and expect me to listen deferentially. Yet, even though you are intent on cantankerously pulling to bits everything, you offer no solutions and never reveal what you did about anything. You insult with impunity and go ballistic if anyone suggests you might have a problem with Muslims.
You are scathing about me voting Labour but refuse to say what you voted. So which dire numbskulls did you vote for or support? Was it that great brain Ian Duncan Smith, Or the idiot Michael Howard, or did you support the despicable Thatcher, or was the overgrown schoolboy William Hague, or perhaps you were a Major man? Or were they not right enough?
What is all this schoolboy silliness about Kenya? Is that really necessary? If you are not clear about what you are saying I can’t guess what you mean.
You call me a liar, a hypocrite and lots of personal abuse and twist everything round. What is that all about? Really? You are not dealing with an idiot. You should behave yourself better.
I had said this :-
“Really? So the Republicans wrote Hilary’s Health Reform reports, concluding it would be too expensive!
Ah well, that explains all that then. Tidy.”
What part of that are you confused by? Seriously?
Information without prejudice?
That’s your problem if you don’t bother to look for it or know about it. It’s certainly not my problem if you fall well short here. Only you can solve that issue for yourself – but that would mean doing things differently for yourself and breaking the habit of a lifetime. It’s not for me to tell you what to do and I can only assume that you’re just too lazy to bother.
Of course I select it – as it’s got to be pertinent to the topic in hand. I don’t do random discourse. I’ll leave that to others.
It was you who suddenly swerved off in a tangent and brought up the matter of population explosion in Africa, wasn’t it? It certainly wasn’t me.
You want to talk about population problems in Africa. Fine.
I have worked and lived there – you haven’t.
I happened to be there at the height of the Aids crisis and saw for myself the endemic proportions.
It was beyond belief shocking and I had to lose 65 staff overnight.
However, I do know who is to blame for Africa’s problem, but that’s another matter entirely.
I do have a problem with Islamic fundamentalism.
I do have a problem with the Muslim agenda to produce as many children as possible.
I do have a problem with the rapid growth of the Muslim population in the UK.
I have only voted in one general election in many years, the last one.
We are not allowed to vote if we live elsewhere and I spent most of my working life elsewhere, a lot of which was in Muslim countries.
I’ll always pull to bits anything I deem to be juvenile, naive and downright biased.
I hate hypocrisy and I always slap that back down too.
Well if you had made it clear that you were limiting your comments to the UK I would have responded in kind. That was not how I interpreted what you said.
Not just a question of who you voted for as much as who you would have supported instead of Blair. Did you think that Howard, Major or IDS were superior in any way? I certainly didn’t. I think they would have done what every Tory government does and taken from the poor, clobbered the public services and given to the rich. Just like Cameron did and just like this lot are doing. Then there’s the speculation as to whether they would have supported the war. I think they certainly would have. They certainly supported it in parliament.
You keep on about hypocrisy and naivety. I’m no hypocrite. My views are consistent. Some of my idealism may seem naïve to you but without idealism we sink into the cynicism and hopelessness that I see in so many. Too many people too keen to pull things to pieces without offering a way forward. Where is your solution? To go for a Brexit that is shooting yourself in the head? To back a populist gimp like Trump who is a danger to everyone? And you say I’m naïve?
Different personalities see things from different perspectives. That does not mean that they are stupid, woolly-minded or naïve.
I suggest it is all a question of presentation rather than anything else. If you have an argument put it soundly. All this getting on your high horse and assuming a mantle of superiority to ‘slap things down’ that you consider don’t fit with your mindset comes over as juvenile to me. It’s too emotive and personal and above all – plain rude and disrespectful.
Now I have a lot of time for your intelligence and knowledge. I think it is great to hear a different view. I think mutual respect is the only way forward or else there is no meeting of minds.
See header – BREXIT – as in UK, right? Therefore, by automatic conclusion in reference to the UK and UK only.
I think nothing of these old Tory bods. I didn’t vote them.
I did however grow up in an extremely middle class Conservative area. So middle class in fact, contrary to your description of middle class last week, where you described your house with no heating and very cold – my father had immediately installed central heating, but mother hated the metal looking “contraptions” so they were removed and under floor heating installed instead. Shortly followed by double glazing which was replaced just 5 years later as mother preferred another style. A bell would ring at precisely 7pm every evening from the hall by mother, indicating to brother and I that it was time to wash our faces and hands and attend the dining room. That’s middle class, Opher.
So upon my first opportunity to vote, I voted Conservative as I had absolutely nothing whatsoever in common with those Labour people living in their squalid little council houses on other, wrong side of town, did I?
Last election we had 2 votes. One for MP, one for local council. A Tory vote would be a waste of a vote in my area, so I voted Labour to impede SNP whom I loathe, and LD as the 2nd vote. I had little choice but to vote against SNP.
Well if you need to make the most of a figure of speech such as “slap it down” go ahead – it merely highlights a weakness of dealing with reality. Or do words actually hurt you – ref the sticks and stones rhyme? Grow up for goodness sake.
Stop making mountains out of mole hills.
Stop the Mary Whitehouse hysteria and we’ll all get along just fine.
It ‘s this P.C. liberal drivel that’s etched itself into the working minds of too many people – they are just SO easily offended by the slightest thing, they’re weaknesses are deliberately vented to make their point as it’s the only ammunition they have. They don’t have the strength of will to counter or simply don’t know how to go about it, without crying out loud. They get a knock on the knee in a crowded bus and they shout “Oh, YOU hurt me!”. They are pathetic specimens.
So damnably self-centered and bloody righteous with it, too.
They make me barf. Some have the cheek to call themselves “men”, too. Like who is kidding who here?
“Call the Pink Police, someone’s ruffled my feather!”
Too may of them and they’re everywhere you turn. Another, gloating, waiting for the first opportunity to have a full blown bitch-fest. I’m done with them too. They get short shrift from me. I hate them, yet I’ve to consider them as equals, right?
And what’s worse, they breed and have a vote. They potentially have a say in matters relating to my life. That disgusts me no end.
I’m reminded here of the occasion when as a teenager, we were on holiday in Greece. We’d climbed up to this remote village place to be met with nothing but a shack of a wreck of an ancient tavern serving local wine. Bingo for me and bro as we were thirsty boys. Meanwhile this southern get English whiny voice pipes up… “What? No tea and cakes …no tea and cakes?” The old man and I looked at each other and nearly died laughing at this clown. It was the first time I ever heard my old man use the F-word, spluttering to himself, “for f’s sake, look where you are man – tea and cakes?” and off he’d go into another manic round of hysterical laughter.
So basically Opher, we don’t suffer fools too gladly where I come from. I hope that goes some way towards answering your question.
That sounds middle class alright. My parents just had pretensions to be middle class but never really fitted in. They tried though. My dad had a very middle class job. It was just that the pay, once you’d taken off the crippling mortgage and travel, was not sufficient. So we had no car or phone and no central heating.
Some hypocrisy, you quote “I don’t think labour MPs should send their kids private but I can see why they do when the state system is so underfunded”, really yet you have objections to others sending their children to Private Schools, like mine attended Prep School. You understand the labour MPs, when you should be so thoroughly ashamed of them and as determined as you are why are you not protesting more loudly about them sending their kids to private school like “chakrabutty”. How two faced it appears condemning private schools but understanding why labour MPs use the private system like private healthcare, and don’t harp on and on how run down state schools are and thats why these s..t labour MPs don’t use them.
I am damn sure if you had been offered a lot of money to teach in the Private system you would have taken it. May I also add all these racist attacks you talk about, what kind of place is Hull and where you live, if all these friends tell you they are attacked, why don’t they go to the Police/MP or Press if its that bad. Not one racist attack has been reported here. You really are making this Country out to be bad, have you no Patriotism.
I don’t think they should send their kids to private schools. They are hypocrites for doing that. We sent our kids to the local schools. I can see why they send their kids there, though even though I don’t agree with them doing so. If I had my way I would abolish all private education, faith schools and make every school a brilliant school. Every child deserves the best.
I was the Headteacher of one of the best Comprehensive schools in the country. I was invited to celebration lunches at the Guild Hall in London (twice), Gibson Hall, Oxford University and Cambridge University. I went to them all because that was my duty. My school was being celebrated for its great success. I was head hunted by numberous academies, private schools and organisations and could easily have doubled my salary. I turned them all down. Principles count more than money with me.
The people I am talking about have children who live in Leeds and Manchester. That is where they have suffered abuse. Being shouted at, spat at or spoken to unpleasantly, being cold shouldered at work is exceedingly unpleasant. If I was them I would have reported it but they didn’t. They are just very upset, in tears, stressed and looking to move back to Italy.
The statistics speak for themselves. Unless you know people around you from European countries they are not going to tell you what they are experiencing. There is an attitude change and it needs to stop.
It would appear that Parliament will have no say. However, having been born European and not wanting to give up my European citizenship – I suggest we all just threaten to leave the UK and start making our own negotiations with the EU to allow us to move and work somewhere that respects our rights. https://johnlilburneblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/22/hard-brexit-time-for-remoaners-to-threaten-their-own-leave/
I would suggest that it perhaps might be a good idea for you to go and work/live in Europe for a while – and there’s a multiplicity of differences to be found – before saying too much more.
You’ll soon enough find out first hand exactly what your “rights” are and just how much these are respected.
My daughter has been working in Europe for quite a number of years now and has not encountered any problems over rights and respect. She loves it. She greatly enjoys the freedom of movement and regular travels through European countries without hindrance. Working and playing in Europe looks good. It is only the mass migration from poorer countries to rich countries and the mass migration from overpopulated war-torn, poor Muslim countries along with the terrorism threat that is the downside – and I think these problems could have been solved without too much trouble. They are effecting all the major European countries the same.
I can’t see any way that British people will be allowed to have any special European rights once we have pulled out, no matter how we feel about Europe. They are going to be very anti-British. We’ll all be lumped together. We will need visas and be back to the old isolationist policies.
What does she do?
Is she running a company or just an employee?
Depends where she’s based – there’s none of this regional equality that you perhaps perceive of.
I wonder if she’s ever attempted to take a native national to court? She’d soon enough find out what her rights were worth.
She’s a chemical engineer. She’s been based in Holland for five years, before that Louisiana, China and Taiwan. She hasn’t taken anyone to court – apart from her husband and the process for separation and divorce was remarkably much better than here. The mediation was excellent.
Holland is one of the easiest 3 countries in which to live.
I wasn’t referring to something as simple as a divorce court, but real deal legal process.
People tend to think the UE has it all sorted and everything is organised and equal. But it’s not by a long shot.
A simple planning application takes 8 years from submission to completion in Spain.
I could list another 99 such disparities that we here in UK are completely unaware of.
I’ve no doubt that there are all manner of problems throughout Europe. It is merely that in my opinion you make things better by working together – not cutting yourself off. I have a number of friends who live on the continent, in Germany, France, Portugal and Spain. All of them love it there and have had minimal problems. The people I know in Spain do not see to have had problems purchasing or developing their property. Post Brexit two of them have reported a negative change in attitude of their neighbours. There is fall-out.
It’s relatively easy to live in some places as a retired ex-pat as long as not simply living off a minimal state pension.
It’s easy to buy property, although that can be problematic depending upon where. It’s easy to buy a condo in Spain, but that’s certainly not everybody’s wish and the process of buying land and building from scratch takes 8 years. No ifs or buts and if you were to build anything unauthorised in Spain, they’ll tear it down.
65% of Germany rents their property with the great majority living inner-city doing so.
I would suggest your friends didn’t have anything of a strong relationship with their neighbours otherwise such circumstances would never occur.
As with all communities I’m sure there was a range of attitudes towards them. The spectrum has shifted. Those people with xenophobic views feel energised to express them now when they did not in the past. There is an anti-British feeling that is evident.
When we went to the Touch Rugby tournament (our daughter plays touch-rugby for the Netherlands) we were beset by questions from all the various teams – Netherlands, French, German, Belgium, Italian, as to why Britain hated them now. There was resentment and anger. It is not healthy.
Strange topic of conversation at a women’s sports tournament? Somewhat different from the Ladies golf tournaments I’ve been around.
Quite how they correlate economics with hate perhaps goes some way to highlight our inherent differences with some Euro nationals as they obviously think differently from us.
Germany – the centrepoint of all things Euro, certainly does so. Any foreign national would find his papers stamped all over with the term “Auslander”. That term would readily be used in reference to them and more often than not, face to face.
I suispect that is because you are probably a very factual, rational person. A lot of people are not rational at all. They respond emotionally to things. They do not see Brexit as an economic situation – they see it as a rejection of them and what they stand for. They see Farage coming out with his arrogant taunts and think all British people are a bit like that.
Most of the Germans I’ve met have not been cold people. I have some good German friends. I wouldn’t mind living there. That Bavarian beer is superb. The countryside is wonderful and the people I met were all very friendly.
I greatly value my European citizenship. For me it is a step towards a complete global government. I would like a universal government that unified and enshrined the principles laid out in the UN charters for human rights and work rights. I would like to see the enforcement of laws that ensured tolerance and equality. I would like to see conservation, population control and pollution laws enforced and uniformly applied. I would like an end to all wars, nationalism and outdated patriotism. I would like to see a global enforcement on taxation of companies (no more corporations playing countries off against each other) and no escape for criminals, terrorists and those involved in corruption. With one global government with the means of enforcing its will and the power to ensure that it could achieve its aims there would no longer be any need for separate arms, arms races and squandering of money and resources on defence. We could have collaboration of science and technology. A new age. The ethos I aspire to is one of valuing all human beings equally and doing away with the inequality that feeds so much of the problems in the world. The first priorities in my book would be to reduce population globally and educate everyone – particularly girls.
Now I do realise that there are great risks in this strategy – corruption on a grand scale, tyranny, micro-control of people – but I do not believe that it is beyond the wit of man to produce an accountable, democratic system that would work.
That is my ideal. I am a dreamer. But without dreamers there is no hope of progress. I am a pragmatic dreamer.
It’s a one yard step with 1,759 to go.
I’d say it was a lot further on than that – perhaps 157 – just gone back thirty.
Once you hit Middle East, Africa and south east Asia, you’ll be straight back 157 to zero.
Certainly not all Africa and South East Asia and probably not back to zero. Let’s say – a work in progress with a lot of progress needed. But I believe the West has a big hand in wanting to keep it that way for a number of reasons. China, Russia, Britain and the USA have all been up to mischief and like poverty, corruption, chaos and disorder. They have profited greatly from it.
You could pick 2 countries in Africa and only the tiny state of Singapore in south east Asia. The rest are completely off that radar.
I way say that poverty, corruption, chaos and disorder is very much the concerns of all these countries leaderships as has been proved time and time again. That’s why they all have dictatorship regimes. Democratic politics exists in theory only.
The west is merely a conduit to it – a supplier to its maintenance.
Any western company doing business there, even grand scale industrial stuff, merely rents the rights by negotiated license to do so and are not the majority earner either.
Those dictatorships are backed up with western money. I think they like to keep it the way it is. If we want it to change we have to change the way these big corporations and western governments do business. That isn’t going to happen without some fundamental changes.
in the meantime the corruption, poverty, large families and inequality are breeding grounds for radicalisation.
We need a big dose of justice, fairness and education.
Just so you know you are paying annually 8.5 billion to Europe for access to a free market of 500 million people. It is costing you to keep 1.2 million people happy a staggering 11 billion stg. And the vast majority of them voted to remain. Even though the DUP were and are Brexiteers, when you look at the figures of the vote approximately 12% of their supporters voted remain. That 12% meant that in total 56% of the people of Northern Ireland voted to remain in Europe. Therefore if there is no back stop the likelihood that the erection of border posts would be dismantled overnight. Not by the terrorists but by neighbours who no longer wish to live in a divided society. The Good Friday Agreement is an internationally recognised peace treaty that protects the rights of all citizens. You cannot just chuck it out because the DUP are a pack of power grabbing hounds who will under no circumstances recognise the rights of those who oppose their right wing radical fundamentalist Christian agenda. We in Ireland are fully aware of what and who we are dealing with her. Foster makes Ian Paisley look like a left leaning socialist compared to her stance on things. And to be honest the smug Tories really had no idea the wolves they were getting into bed with because they ultimately dont give two flying fucks about the people of Northern Ireland and are quite happy to throw 11billion at them just so as they don’t threaten the status quo. But unfortunately for the Union the demographics are changing and within ten years a majority of those whose allegiance lies elsewhere will be the elected majority what then.
Thank you Paul for that thought provoking comment. The Tories really don’t care – it is ideology gone mad. And the DUP are indeed a bunch of nutcases. It seems that extremists rule and common sense and the wishes of ordinary people do not count for anything.
Which is exactly what is behind all the agro towards people’s hero #1 Tommy Robinson.
Mary – well the Islamophobic Tommy, previously of the extreme right-wing English Defence League, is a good example of what is wrong with the country. He represents the rise of racism, fascism and extreme right-wing ideology that has been unleashed by this wave of nationalism that is represented in Brexit. The fact that he is popular shows the level of extremism that has surfaced.
Looks like the terrorists won. They have created such fear and hatred that figures like Tommy are lauded as heroes.
We’ll be deifying the skinhead, paki-bashing boot boys next.
Opher – you are exceedingly badly informed. You deign to repeat the dross fed by those that wish to remain undisturbed and to continue weakening the rights of everyman citizens. We should have the right to objection regardless of whether an alternative opinion is adverse to those that judge. You are promoting, at least on paper, a very sick and brutal society, something akin to Nazism, in fact.
Brexit has nothing at all to do with Robinson, or racism. However, you would be quite right to assert that the EU is fascist.
In many respects the terrorists have won as Anjem Choudary has been released after serving only a short portion of his sentence. He was granted the utmost protection whilst in prison, something which Robinson was not.
I think you have confused street thuggery with something else entirely, otherwise we would clearly be able to point fingers at many members of the left-wing contingent as to their hatred and abuses towards persons of the Jewish faith. We have to be a bit more careful and should be absolutely clear with our factual information before we cast such trite and inflammatory accusations. There is ample information to be gathered that embolden the facts and quite unnecessary to interpret falsities on the pretense of representation of one’s political slant. In plain speak, you’re talking complete bullshit here.
Well everyone is entitled to their opinion. I had to laugh when you called the EU fascist though and then support Tommy.
Yes of course as I can just as easily laugh at your appalling conclusions as reached based on nefarious misinformation fed to you and consumed without question.
The problem here is that you have formed what you term as an “opinion” based on non-factual and fraudulent misinformation as fed to you by the popular corrupt media.
Whilst on the face of it this is unfortunate, firstly for you, being so short changed with the truth and secondly, the breadth of impact the popular media have is extremely damaging to attempts to keep the bully-boy establishment in check.
Basically you have joined their ranks both willingly and unthinkingly it would seem.
It you can find one single word coming from Tommy Robinson that equates to anything to do with fascism – you won’t because there aren’t any. You might want to enlighten yourself some more because you will find in fact that the vast majority of today’s social commentators are firmly on his side. It’s very doubtful if this would be the case were Robinson some sort of danger. Naturally of course non of this reaches any kind of mainstream populist media, therefore, very doubtful whether or not you may be aware of this.
It would also seem that you are completely unaware as to the actions of the EU of late where there are ample examples of fascism at large. Their interference on matters only of concern to the UK being prime example.
I see Mary – and your view of the English Defence League is what? That they are not a right-wing organisation at all? That there’s nothing racist or fascist about them? That there weren’t a bunch of football hooligans in the EDL?
And Tommy had a right to try stirring up exaggerated stuff about Muslims?
That he had a right to stand outside a court, in defiance of a court order, and broadcast stuff about the men standing trial? That exaggerating and stirring up trouble is fine?
And the EU is fascist? Yeah right.
There’s a hundred and one things I don’t like about Islam and the EU. But I do know that the vast number of Muslims are not rapists or terrorists or wanting to bring in Sharia law. And the EU needs reforming, is not fascist and has done a lot of good stuff.
Thank you for your views.
I welcome the fact that you have again brought forth further a number of false statements all of which were designed for you by that corrupt media representing the establishment.
Surely by now after all these years you understand the reasons for the formation of the EDL in the first place? Robinson saw his town being overrun (run over, more like) by thousands of Muslims. The mere fact that some EDL members who also shared the same opinions were also interested in attending football matches is actually irrelevant as the two did not mix. Any demonstrations were specifically on behalf of the EDL and not Luton Town F.C. If one were to project this group’s objections back two hundred years it would not be too dissimilar to the Tolpuddle Martyrs. These young men from Luton saw their rights of passage stripped from them. They also were most aware of the behaviour of a number of Pakistani Muslims, whom were organised in clandestine rape-gangs of young vulnerable girls, most of whom were supposed to be under the security of local authorities, but had slipped through. Remarkably, it took a bunch of unruly and not particularly well educated young men to bring this serious matter to the attention of the authorities at large. Naturally, these authorities felt severely threatened by this group and deigned all powers to see them castigated and silenced to save face. There’s nothing new here in that respect.
Due to the unforseen success and growth of the EDL, it’s ranks attracted outsiders with no general ties to Luton, to whom Robinson objected to and consequently left the organisation.
You have to understand better that core reasons for organisations forming in the first place can be corrupted in due course. Germany’s Nationalist Socialist Worker’s Party would be one example. Adolf Hitler had nothing to do with it’s formation. Another example could be what Tony Blair did to the Labour Party.
In either case nobody could have foreseen the magnitude of change and corruption of ethics and it is most unfair to judge individual people by the actions of others. I would not place any ordinary member of the Labour Party up against a wall for execution but you’d be hard pressed to stop me putting Tony Blair there.
Robisnson has no ties to any other organisations or political parties although he did however work as a consultant to the Muslim organisation, Quilliam Foundation. Quilliam is a London based left-of-centre think tank that focuses on counter-extremism, specifically against Islamism which it argues represents a desire to impose a given interpretation of Islam on society at large. It’s founders Maajid Nawaz, Ed Husain and Rashad Zaman Ali are respectively well known in public media circles, with Nawaz being their most prolific spokesperson.
Robinson now works as an independent journalist and runs a blog (just as you do) where he commands thousands of followers all over the world.
You may wish to view his address to the Oxford Union filmed a couple of years ago now and available on youtube.
I would immediately point you straight to the case of a major whistleblower, Melanie Shaw, who has been incarcerated in prison for some time now and vilified by the establishment. She is the victim of a corrupt establishment doing anything to prevent the truth from reaching the masses. So much so in fact, that Tony Blair has buried a report naming high profile individuals for 100 years. To date the media focus only on Ms. Shaw’s four protests in jail where on each occasion she has set fire to her cell. Any regular investigation would conclude the prison authorities to be half the problem by allowing matches or lighters on her person from after the first event. Of course this is never the case.
I urge you to find out more about Melanie Shaw.
Regarding your allegations made above about defiance of a court order.
You have again been misled by the official spin story and the actions of a judge who acted most fraudulently. During the various trial proceedings on these same cases at Leeds Crown Court, there were many other reporters present, namely the Sikh Awareness Society, whom went about their business completely uninterrupted.
Nothing that Robinson said or did on his live stream report from outside the court could possibly have influenced any jury. All charges had been raised and proceedings on that day were for final sentencing. In fact Robinson’s broadcast contents were of a far lower scale of magnitude than any others made by other people. He had been simply singled out. There was no contempt of court because you cannot tell someone not to be somewhere without good reason.
The tacit understanding that simply being somewhere was grounds for his arrest is not legitimate in a fair state. It might be in an authoritarian setup like North Korea, but not as yet in the UK.
He exaggerated nothing.
You may wish to side with the BBC, whom upon broadcast described the charges against these people as for “grooming”, when in fact they were for gang-rapes against minors and supply of heroin and cocaine to minors. That isn’t “grooming” in anybody’s book. If you consider Robinson to be “stirring up trouble”, then there must be something very fundamentally wrong with you. There were girls as young as 11 years old being systematically raped by men in their fifties.
I can ascertain by your false comments that you are not in fact aware of proceedings at his trial at the Old Bailey just three days ago on 23rd October. It was deemed that there had been no contempt of court and no license breach.
On that day of Robinson’s arrest outside Leeds Crown Court, that judge perverted the course of justice. He has however converted Robinson from a single issue activist into a global voice for the silent and forgotten majority and simultaneously brought the entire establishment, judiciary and vile MSM into further disrepute. He must now be more than a little unpopular with his establishment chums. This is now the smoking gun in the hand of Judge Messeditup pointing straight at the forehead of the Attorney General. The Crown Prosecution were forced to drop their case against Robinson and send any final decision over to the Attorney General’s offices, where this should have gone in the first place.
Watch The British Police State video and find out what’s going on.
Also you should watch an excellent podcast made by a man going by the name of Politico, it’s on youtube under the tag “Tommy Robinson trial: the current state of play”, filmed on the 23rd October. It’s only 12 minutes but worth listening to.
I prefer to let the British Justice system to deal with these people. Rapists and paedophiles need locking up.
Sorry – I do not share your degree of Islamophobia.
I would have to say that I have not been in the least bit impressed with anything you have had to say. There is clear indication that you are talking from a great distance from this topic and in fact have absolutely no idea at all about the true facts to any of it. You may as well have been trying to eat stew soup with a straw. It is that obvious that you are so much out of your depth on this.
You still don’t get it, do you? If it hadn’t been for Robinson they wouldn’t even have had any cases to bring to trial. It was through his actions that led to justice.
It’s only in very recent times that the breadth of the scale of atrocities committed by these male Pakistani Muslim rape-gangs running throughout the UK has been brought to light. A smallish town such as Rotherham has reportedly some 1,400 young girl victims. That’s a lot of rapists, I would imagine. Adding up the numbers of these sexual deviants from town to town all across Britain would account for many thousands of perpetrators, almost all of whom stem from the same religious faith.
This has got nothing to do with Islamophobia. This has however got everything to do with the practices of Islam in third world Islamic countries where these immigrants and their British-born offspring have encouraged this cultural behaviour upon these shores and continue to act upon it. No other contingent of society is doing this on such unprecedented large scale numbers in such a large scale of organisation. This is all of their own making and we all should have the most utmost right to make objection noise at the utmost level. We should not be silenced and to do so is an abomination of human rights, social mores and common decency.
The simple act of objection to this does not in the least indicate Islamophobia.
However, I would say having read all your previous posts upon this page that you seem to continuously suffer from a lack of knowledge and education on a variety of issues, this being just another.
Because you happen to possess little or no knowledge about this – what is the most serious anti-social problem the UK has had since the Black Plague, does not give you the right to refer to others whom do happen to have a far greater knowledge and understanding with with remarks that they support Islamophobia. Understanding something does not constitute for support of. It would be on a level of bewildering idiocy to think that it would.
As I suggested, watch the Politico webcast and think again before you utter another ill-word.
Lol – that makes two of us then. This blog does not support right-wing stuff and least of all Tommy Robinson.
I really cannot imagine what you have to laugh about. You have nothing of any relevance to offer, either of any import of information exchange or constructive analysis of the entire corruption that is destroying our society.
You also have an appallingly bad interpretation of what “extreme right-wing” is. I would suggest that you would consider almost anything as such that isn’t your bed-time teddy bear or mother’s apron.
Go and educate yourself for goodness sake. Go to Politico’s webcasts and learn how to do constructive analysis without all this silly-baby “-wings this and -ist’s that jargon.
It really does you no favours at all and makes you out to be a bit thick really.
In you biased opinion. I know exactly what the extreme right is. I have to listen to their garbage all the time! I despise them and everything they stand for.
I want an inclusive socialism thanks and a lot less of the nationalistic, jingoistic rubbish and exaggerated threat of Islam.
A political football!
Actually, what you need is a better all-round education. An education alleviates the primal genuflection of pointing castigating fingers and allows one to think a little more. Something you could be doing with a lot more practice of.
Lol Mary – you think I should embrace fascism more????
Lol Opher – to a certain extent your ease and unthinking approach to the activities of the British justice system affords you nothing. It’s rotten. Even The Guardian newspaper started to publish articles on the state of it commencing 2nd April 2018, written by Simon Jenkins, one of their most senior and readable writers.
I think you should have a better study at what’s gone on here with this Robinson case, as it is an exact example of what true fascism is. You don’t have to personally like the man to conclude that the authorities are rotten and corrupt bullying bastards.
We are clearly in a state of flux with an authoritarian establishment smashing down rights to free speech from those as they see as a threat or embarrassment to themselves and the progressive promotion of the activities and views from those whom they wish to seek as support, i.e. future voters.
Take a closer look at activities now taking place at Speaker’s Corner in Hyde Park and try and justify to yourself the reasons for the withdrawal of centuries old regulations regarding religious practices taking place in public areas and rights of way for the general public to be able to walk around parkland freely and uninterrupted. Over the course of the last few years this has been eradicated where areas have effectively been more or less sealed off from non-Muslims, and it is a shocking double standard of endemic proportion.
Mary – I have had my experiences with the Justice system and well know that it is a lottery.
I think that religious fundamentalism, in all its forms, stinks. Radical Muslims need sorting out. But that does not endear me to fascists.
Reblogged this on Opher's World and commented:
Let’s have a proper grown-up debate in parliament! It is time the Tories stopped being so puerile.