As a Brit who is looking in from outside I am seeing a huge influence of Christianity on the election process and legislation. A theocracy is when religion runs the government (eg. Iran or Saudi Arabia).
Is American run by religion?
Is it possible for a non-Christian to be even nominated into high office?
How much power does the Christian lobby have over the laws that are passed?
At what point do you say that religion calls the shots?
We seem to have very flaky groups, such as the creationists, running schools or setting the curriculum. How involved are they?
Or is my perspective giving me a false picture?
Interestingly I read a statistical report recently that concluded that only 15% of Americans do not follow religion or affiliated with a church of any denomination. That’s frightening isn’t it? Apparently Obama is a non-believer. Mrs Clinton is. I would doubt that Trump has much truck for any god.
But they all have to pretend to be devout in order to get elected. They talk the talk.
I believe that America is still largely rooted in Judeo-Christian beliefs. Although there has been a significant decline over the decades on moral social issues, there is still some Judeo-Christian influence in various aspects of everyday life such as policy or law. I heard a poll that Americans still largely identify with Christianity (I’d argue that the number of actual Christians is quite lower than reported). I don’t see why people of faith have to be shut out of the decision making process or can’t have their values expressed. Christianity doesn’t advocate a theocratic state. Advocating things such as the sanctity of life or traditional marriage isn’t a theocracy. Just my opinion
Christianity has run many openly theocratic States and still does. England was a theocratic State as was most of Europe until after the enlightenment. If you read Wolf Hall or Bring up the Bodies by Hilary Mantel you have vivid descriptions of the theocratic nature of Britain. People were tortured and burnt to death (or worse) for disbelieving or believing in the ‘wrong’ faith.
I am not suggesting that religious people should not be allowed to express their views. My concern is when religion is the governing of the country, or when religion has too much power. In my view religion should be a personal view. The country should be governed by a secular body. Religion and the State should be divorced.
My view of America is that religion has too much power and undermines democracy. That the people wielding that power are not really religious; they are using religion for their own ends.
I think you’ve nailed it bang on….to a cross!
Cheers Andrew.
Those are such good questions, Opher. I gotta say from MY pov that these people referred to as Christians in politics are in name only. In fact I think MOST people here who claim to be Christians are only Easter – Christmas church visitors. If that weren’t true, the churches would be full on Sundays. They’re not. They’re all failing. Christian doesn’t have the same meaning at all that it had 100 years ago. And it sure as heck doesn’t mean what it did in the early church. Christianity isn’t even a word that was ever used in the early church. When it came into being later it was certainly a derogatory term. Personally I’m ashamed to be associated in any way with the folks you’re talking about. I follow Jesus’ principles. I guess you could say I’m a follower of The Way which it how it was referred to at first, I think (could be wrong).
Yes, those idiots DO call themselves Christians, but they’re not. It’s all a game to them. But whoever they are, they are very dangerous! How much control do they have over the political situation here? I would guess a lot and it scares the hell out of me. Can’t decide who scares me the most, them or Trump.
Thoroughly agree Cheryl. History is littered with powerful leaders who use religion for personal gain – Constantine being one such.
Religion should be about spirituality and a personal thing. It is too often used to control people for political gain. Those powerful people who do that are not Christians – they are ruled by greed, hatred and a lust for power.
Which is the worse – Trump or the religious right? I don’t know. They both scare me.
I find statements such as ‘It’s alright to strip mine Alaska because God gave us the planet to do with as we like,’ extremely scary.
They use religion for their own ends.
Amen and Amen!!!
No pun intended!!! 🙂
Cheers Cheryl!!
When you refer to Jesus’ principles – aren’t they pretty much the content of both our respective countries laws anyway – the ten commandments. I suppose that makes me an avid follower in some respect, too, although I’ve never found myself in a position thinking no, I shouldn’t kill this person because Jesus had said not to.
A lot of the morality is good common sense. If we are to learn to get along with each other we have to learn to leave each others oxen alone! Stands to reason. My view is that we don’t need a deity to tell us that. We can work it out for ourselves. The ten commandments are pretty basic as are the teaching of Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed and Lau-tsu.
All I know is the are some desperate people out there in America (as there are here) and no Politician was listening to them until Trump came along and did what none of the others did he listened – now he maybe an arsehole to you Opher and others but the fact of the matter is the people who like him, believe him want him and time will tell. As for Religion I don’t recall JFK using their Catholic faith that much, I maybe wrong I am sure you will correct me Opher. I say this as lapse Catholic as you know. I am so looking forward to be there in America just weeks before the election, last time I was there it was “The Watergate Breakin”, great fun to be there this time. Nice to see you on her again Andrew!
Good afternoon Anna, good to hear from you.
A lot of people are disenfranchised. They don’t trust politicians. They don’t think they care at all about them and they are right. All they do is say what the public want to hear in order to get elected. That’s why UKIP and Trump have risen. They are saying the things people want to hear. But they are not caring people. They don’t really care about anyone but themselves. They are just using that populist jargon to get elected. Trump is a very dangerous windbag. He’ll say anything to get a vote but they is no substance behind any of it. Does anybody really believe he can build a wall between Mexico and the USA or stop all Muslims entering the USA? He’d really ban the Lord Mayor or London? He is vicious, bigoted and unpleasant. You don’t earn billions; you get that money by callously exploiting people. He is psychologically flawed. Like you Anna, I lust for a politician who really cares about people – Trump isn’t it for me. He’s a populist on the same lines as Hitler for me – and potentially as damaging.
JFK didn’t use his Catholic faith very much because it was pretty unpopular in the States to be Catholic – it is a predominantly protestant counry with a catholic minority. He was a complicated man. Because he was young a lot of people pinned their hopes in him. I wonder as time went on if he would have let them down? The Vietnam War? Cuba? I have some doubts. His assassination rather created a sanitised image of great possibility.
I was in the States at the time of the Iran crisis and Jimmy Carter/Ronald Reagan Presidential campaign. There was a frightening war fever. My school kids wanted to nuke Iran. I came back saying it could never happen here and walked straight into the same thing with the Falklands. If Carter had gone into Iran with guns blazing he probably would have won the election but we would have had Russia to contend with and a huge war costing tens of thousands of lives. It was really exciting being in the middle of it all and a bit divorced. It was manic. There was lots of emotion but very little intelligence.
I think you will enjoy feeling the excitement of that contest, Anna.
Opher, of course the prospect of a Catholic President was something they did not want, but Kennedy and the entire family were hypocrites. Kennedy did what the Father wanted, Kennedy had women going in and out of the White House that he would, well you know what. As for had he lived would he have done good, no I don’t believe he would. His assassination had us all, those that supported not only him but Bobby who would continue the “dream”, believing the myth that was Jack Kennedy. I personally liked Jimmy Carter and still do. Regan was what they wanted, the Actor (so called actor) from Hollywood the dream world, was he a good President well he was ok but the Americans themselves need to answer that one.
To compare Trump with Hitler is going overboard somewhat, of course people like Trump are dishonest, as is any Millionaire/Billionaire throughout the Word, for pity sake Opher no one makes large amounts of money by being honest. They go out there dealing, you were in an occupation knowing at the end of the month how much you would be paid, what pension you would receive at the end of your life, you worked whether you like it or not as part of the establishment, a Teacher. These are businessmen clean or dirty more dirty than anything. My point being people are fed up with “politicians” on both sides of the water, they see no hope for them then comes along Trump, the people are not stupid Opher they hope he will help them does not mean they believe him, they certainly have more trust in Tump than Clinton who could be indicted at any moment, or Bernie Sanders.
The only reason you would support that fellow who won Mayor of London is because he is Labour, albeit Blair Labour, something you opposed. You do realize this fellow wants and is acting to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn, don’t you. Before you ask, NO I do not like the new Mayor of London, not because of his colour that’s irrelevant to me, before I am called a racist, I do not like him because I do not trust him and he will “cock” everything up. Wait for the first terrorist attack on the City, just wait what side is he going to be on then, ours or those he favours? Back to Kennedy, Kennedy really started the Vietnam War by sending in the “advisors” interfering what else. I had a cousin in the States who was in the Vietnam War, he came back brain damaged. Americans wanted to forget Vietnam it was on tv every night, what was their excuse for the Korean War, and ours – the Korean War so sadly forgotten but what of those that fought and those that died.
I stand to be corrected on all of this.
Yes I thoroughly agree with you about Kennedy. He started Vietnam and I’m not sure he would have done any good in the long run. He was establishment through and through from a very wealthy family with a history of corruption and greed. I think Bobby had a bit more of a civil rights flavour to him – but they all drank from the same bottle.
I liked Carter – I thought he had integrity. Reagan started out radical left and ended up very right. He was an actor. But I think most Presidents end up as puppets for the people behind the scenes with the real power.
The present election is a choice between two highly flawed candidates and America has to vote for the lesser of two evils – as usual. I think they both lie and they’re both crooks. The lesser for me by a distance is Clinton. Trump frightens me. I think he’s capable of starting big wars. He’s too much mouth and no real understanding. He’s manipulating those who are desperate. That’s the analogy I make with Hitler. He did exactly the same. The scapegoats there were the Jews – this time it’s the Muslims.
I don’t just go for Khan because he’s Labour ; I like what he says. I think it is good to bring Muslims in to the fold. Creating outcasts results in radicalisation. Our acts of terrorism were all home-grown terrorists. We have to bring all groups in to stop them being marginalised and prey for the terrorist nutters. Khan’s religion was not important to me, or his colour, it was what he said. But I do like the message of having a Muslim mayor. He is a good role model for all the hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the country. I want all of them included in producing a tolerant, civilised Britain. I know he opposes Corbyn and I wish all the idiots on the right wing of the party would stop sniping and playing into the hands of the Tories and the media. They are allowing the Public Services to be destroyed – NHS, schools, police, welfare, disabled. It’s not reform; its mayhem. While the tax breaks for the rich and the bonuses are increasing. I think that welfare needs overhauling and people should be made to work but I don’t like to see the disabled penalised to give more money to the super-rich. Khan won’t side with terrorists. If there is another attack I think it will be good to hear a powerful response from a moderate Muslim for a change. The moderate Muslims are far too quiet for my liking.
The Korean war was all a bit gung-ho. The US has a fear of communism that is out of all proportion. I don’t think they know what it stands for. They see totalitarian States like Russia and China who aren’t communist by any stretch of the imagination. They went in to Korea and Vietnam thinking they would walk over them and got their arse kicked. It was a terrible war with horrendous casualties and was swept under the carpet. I don’t think the Americans have won a single war they’ve started – Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan. Is there a war they’ve won or has made the world safer or better?
I don’t think it is productive to dwell on events of the past as the situations in all cases were entirely different. We no longer have the big bad Communist as the threat. What we do have are those intent upon destroying our societies – despite all the obvious inherent faults – in amongst us or on our door step. We need to start thinking of today and not of the past. However, there’s never been such good advice such as a warning from history. That’s a fact and nothing remotely connected to today’s popular take that fear is a weapon imposed by those that wish to impose it. I would have to see the that definition of fear to be able to make sound judgement. We should be able to recognise the difference.
To what extent does a country let it’s fundamental basic principles become severely threatened before it takes any action? I think it is a glib mistake to make decisions about problems solely based upon one’s personal views of the person who is actively seeking to resolve them. In order to undertake such a strident approach and coerce other people to start paying attention to the issues at hand, invariably this requires a strong personality. For all his faults and he certainly has many, Trump knows what he is talking about.
The Latin-American gang culture is running riot in Southern California. It is becoming a wasteland of criminality and abject poverty. It’s not as if Trump is out there on his own with this issue is it?
I am not a personal supporter of Trump one bit whatsoever. However, I disagree with claims that he is only wealthy having ridden roughshod over others. His money may seem huge to some but in the grand scheme of things it really isn’t. The guy has worked his nuts off to get where he is. He makes Richard Branson look like a paperboy. He has had innumerable business failures. He is one of the few who runs a business conglomerate who actually knows what’s going on. He knows, lives and breathes business risks. It would also be a mistake to believe that he is the sole owner of all the businesses that he is affiliated with and that all profits go directly to him.
I have yet to come across one single business, bet it large or small whereby if it does not make money it is therefore able to expand and develop. This factor is key to any progression.
The only businesses that I know of that are able to operate whilst making a loss have been those that are state run and those that are in such severe levels of debt where liquidators have decided to extend the lifespan in order to seek rewards from unfinished business.
Nobody, at least I’m unaware of such, has cast derision upon say the likes of Paul McCartney, with his personal wealth estimated around £800 million for what, writing some pop songs and playing musical concerts for 3 hours a night.
It’s all relative.
On a smaller scale I know of a man who now owns over 80 properties. 10 years ago he was on the dole. He sold his council house and started from scratch by buying housing wrecks and doing them up. He’s now worth an estimated £18 million.
What I have found in life is that no company will ever give it to you on a plate. What they will do though is teach you how to do it. The rest is up to you, whether you sit with them accepting your lot or take your skills set and knowledge base and use it to your own advantage. That’s freedom of enterprise.
On the other hand lets have a good look at Angela Merkel.
She is a spinster with absolutely zero invested interest in the future Germany. She is a living apology for Nazi war crimes that finished 70 years ago. She for some reason carries this guilt trip upon her shoulders and imposes it upon her nation.
Last September, at a public forum, a member of the public asker her why she was allowing so many Islamic immigrants into Germany. Fair question. She answered by decreeing that many Germans do not know their Christian bible well enough. Therefore, why should they be able to criticise the beliefs of another religion. She also went on to instruct that the Germans should start going to their local churches and learn the meanings behind all the stained-glass paintings found within. That Germany had committed terrible crimes themselves in the past and these actions for allowing mass immigration are an act of atonement.
Funnily enough this particular statement from Merkel, met with almost zero press exposure.
The film with English translation is available on youtube.
I had asked my brother about verification of this as he’s fluent in German and yes, that was her answer.
I don’t know the answers but I do know that I don’t have as much trust in the Islamic community that I had perhaps had 20 years ago. I’ll be honest enough and say that I don’t have anything in common with them, I bitterly dislike their choice of lifestyle and I’d much prefer it if they kept their distance from me as I have no wish to have to live amongst them.
Hi Andrew
I agree with most of what you say.
I think the Commie threat is still ingrained in the American psyche. Americans still use it as a dirty word and see it in the most unlikely places. A strange phobia.
Paul McCartney has proved himself a hypocrite. I wonder what he does with all that fortune. A shame because he could have used his fame and money to good effect. At least Lennon had a go.
I’m not sure how the chicano situation has progressed since I lived there in 79/80. The gangs were bad then but I understood it had improved.
White Americans used to have a fear of being swamped by black Americans, but then it became a fear of Hispanics swamping the country and everyone having to speak Spanish. I wonder what the remaining American Indians make of it? There seems to be a bit of irony here.
I do not like any organised religion though I have no problem with people who are religious. I believe the fundamentalist wings of all religions go in for brainwashing of their children, fostering hatred and division. There are no chosen people or correct faiths. At various points in history they have nearly all carried out atrocities. Even the Buddhists have carried out acts of genocide. Religion is used by megalomaniacs to control people and to gain power and wealth. Religion and spirituality should be a personal experience.
I particularly detest Islam for a number of reasons – its intransigence, intolerance, medieval attitudes and sexism to name a few. I see what it has done in the Middle East where it has halted any progress. That area was the seat of civilisation, invention and brilliance – science, maths, language, writing, astronomy. All came to an abrupt halt under Islam (apart from some beautiful art, poetry and architecture). But then that was no different to the effect of Christianity right up to the reformation and enlightenment. It was only when religion was divorced from State that the West made progress. Islam is backward looking. It creates theocracies and seeks to impose it ‘correct views’ on others. I have no wish to live under sharia law or see women walking around in sacks without the same rights as men.
Back in the sixties my Muslim friends were fully integrated. They liked the same clothes and music as me. In Pakistan the universities were full of young people in flares, jeans, beads and Western clothing. There was no sign of a burqa and no wish for adherence to strict extreme practice.
What has happened in Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran has galvanised a huge leap back for Muslims. They have become more extreme and religious.
I don’t care what faith people have as long as they do not impose it on others or indoctrinate children. But I do not want an increased Islamification of the West and I share that with most people. I don’t think that is racist or Islamophobic. I’m not a UKIP or Nationalist. I’m a liberal antitheist. I do not share the values of social attitudes of many Muslims. I think their attitude to women and other faiths stink.
The question is how to deal with this mass migration and the humanitarian crisis created by the West and ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, Taliban etc? It is not an easy question. We cannot go back in time to draw up different countries. Churchill and his mates arbitrarily drew lines on a map without regard to tribe or culture – damage done. We can’t undo all the wars. But we can start to put huge pressure on the seat of the problem which is the Israel/Palestinian situation. It festers and seeds hatred. We need to find a solution – a Palestinian country, reparation for lands seized, a rapprochement? It won’t go away and it promotes hatred. We can stop the Syrian war. We can hunt down the radical fundamentalists and wipe them out. We can put pressure on Saudi – the seat of the Wahabi extremism. We can settle Libya and Sudan. It takes a lot of money and will but it will stop the mass migration. We must solve the overpopulation problem, educate women, bring in contraception and stop these crises developing.
I want to see religions die away. I want moderates. I want Islam to cool down and the moderates to speak out vehemently against terrorism and intolerance. I think the mosques should be policed and Imams who spread hatred arrested.
I think Merkel is full of guilt and has got it wrong. We need a concerted, well thought out humanitarian action, not mass migration. I do not want to see children suffering or people in desperationThey need help and they need it now.
As for the super-rich – I do not share your view. I think the disparity between poor and rich is obscene. No film star, rock star, footballer or banker deserves that degree of wealth. It is obscene. Trump might work hard and know his stuff and should be rewarded for taking risks – but nobody deserves that much. It’s like the Russian oligarchs. The money they have comes from us. We pay more for everything for them to cream off at the top. This government is robbing from the disabled, from teachers and nurses to give tax breaks to the rich. We’re not all in it together.
Wow – that turned into a diatribe.
Apologies, should have said “Afternoon Opher” and special “HI to Cheryl”.
Excuse me, but bloody hell Andrew I have never come across someone so informative, have I said the right thing? I learn so much from what you say and as for Paul McCartney I could not agree more with you. For me no one has been listening to those people in America who do not trust the normal politicians, so there comes Trump and he tells it as it is, I would listen to him if I was in that situation. I have watched this Country decline so much and people have to keep their mouths shut for we all fear now being called racists, one can’t say anything but that word is branded. I wish we could have the values we used to have back but that won’t happen. We have people in this Country who refuse to accept our way of life, they impose their way of life on us, and I don’t like it or agree with it. This is England after all. I daresay now Opher you will be appalled, but people are not saying what they really and honestly think. Nice to see you back Andrew.
Hiya Anna. I had to pop back to my brother’s in Hamburg, Germany again, following the proper (or was it?) holiday slightly earlier. Anyway on the way back to the airport during the day I was in the large square area outside of Hamburg’s rail station. It’s probably about 3 times the size of Piccadilly Circus. It was stuffed full of young Muslim men, 4 to 5 thousand of them all shouting what I can only ascertain to be salutes to Allah. The police were there but inside their vehicles. It was insane. I’ve seen gangs of hooligan Rangers and Celtic football fans often enough but never ever anything like this. I totally shit myself as I had to walk through it all with a wheel trolley bag. No mater which direction I looked it was packed. Given that Hamburg is way up north I cannot imagine the scenes down in Munich where the majority land up in the first instance before dispersing to wherever they choose. The whole situation is total insanity.
It is insanity and driven by overpopulation, war, unemployment and desperation as much as anything else. The numbers are far too many.
Hi Anna,
I think I should refer you to what I said to Andrew but I agree – I think people should be integrated into our culture if they chose to live here. If they don’t like our culture they should stay where they are. However, I do think they should also celebrate their own culture as well in some way.
The trouble is that there is hypocrisy at work – the British have been spread around the world – about 300 million of us abroad I believe – and they have never assimilated into any culture they went to live among – North America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa – even Spain. It annoys me to see ‘Little Britain’ in Spain boasting of being English, fish and chips, roast and whatever. There is little attempt to integrate.
I’m not so sure about these claims. There are not 300 million Britons but descendants of by many generations where any Britishness has long been eradicated. That’s still an astronomical figure?
I think that would be asking rather a lot of anyone where they arrived in Australia and had to live like an Aborigine! That’s a ludicrous suggestion!
The claim that they did not assimilate is not entirely true, particularly within farming which was in many cases the first and foremost enterprise.
In most cases Britons first arrived as naval armies and there was no long term agenda to do any assimilation. Perhaps Cook Island would be a small example of a success in this respect. Also many deserters did, not that they had much choice in the matter.
I knew many European men in Indonesia whom had married Indonesian women and in order to do so they had to become Muslim. They were even given a new Muslim name. They themselves didn’t take that aspect too seriously but all the same they went with the flow.
The generalisation of fish and chips…
I think you will find the Spanish fish and chips is mainly only found in resorts that entertain British holiday makers who are only there for 1 week/2 weeks anyway. Funnily enough all such properties are usually owned by Spaniards! As far as they are concerned if a Briton wants to rent a place and sell such wares good luck to them as they also realise that there’s more to food that paella. Were they in the Basque region where the food produce is absolutely fantastic you would never find such a place. They are pretty much the reserve of the most tackiest resorts found on the Costa Del Sol.
In order to integrate you have to speak the language. Name me one thing that the English are pathetic at? Yes, foreign languages. There’s the rub and it will never change.
Most fish and chips shops in UK are managed by people of Italian descent. Should we make them sell Lasagne? Enforce their heritage upon them?
Integration by disintegration has never worked very well for anybody anywhere. It’s a slow process with a lot of give and take and we can never have it all or ever deserve it all.
Yes it is a large number but not surprising.
You say that Britishness has long been eradicated in the descendants – but that is surely not true. Australian, Canadian, Zealand, American and South African prevailing culture is predominantly British. The language is English. Just as the South American cultures of South America is European and predominantly of the Spanish and Portuguese. Buenos Aries was more European than most of Europe (it was pointed out to us by the historical lecturer that the Argentinian culture is far more European because they did not participate in the slave trade, and so do not have a large black population emanating from freed slaves, and practiced genocide against all the indigenous populations they encountered.)
The indigenous cultures of all of these countries was largely wiped out by Europeans (war, disease, genocidal policies, and starvation). In Tierra Del Fuego there was an estimated population of 500,000 when the Europeans arrived. It was called the land of fire because of the way the night skies were illuminated by the camp-fires. The last remaining indigenous native is in her eighties and unlikely to reproduce. Of the tribes that helped the pilgrim fathers through their first winter in America, not one survives. It was legal in Tasmania to shoot aborigines.
Between 1824 and 1908 approximately 10,000 Aborigines were murdered in the Colony of Queensland. “Considered ‘wild animals’, ‘vermin’, ‘scarcely human’, ‘hideous to humanity’, ‘loathsome’ and a ‘nuisance’, they were fair game for white ‘sportsmen’.” The same was true in the USA and South America.
In Spain there is the same tendency for ex-pats to congregate into little British communities, not speak the language and not integrate into the culture. It is not just the Benidorm holiday makers. There is little difference in my mind between the actions of immigrants here and the action of British immigrants abroad. People feel comfortable with their own language and culture and tend to stick together. Integration takes time but in a generation or two the majority assimilate into the main culture. The British are a mongrel race. We have successfully assimilated people from all other cultures – most of whom are now more British than the British.
The problem we have is when the number of immigrants is too many and they come in too short a time. The Muslim’s show little inclination to integrate and some openly talk about taking over the place and introducing sharia law. That seems to me like taking in a lodger who then wants your whole house. The Muslim religion does not sit easy with my ethos of tolerance and equality. I do not like seeing women treated differently and segregated. I do not like the primitive sharia law and I do not like the fact that the men are free to wear what they like but the women are made to comply with pre-Islamic costume. I do not like their view on apostasy or attitude to other people’s faiths. It is a recipe for conflict.
We can have integration. We have integrated Jews, Jamaicans and Sihks in large numbers. We have integrated people from all over the world. A large number of those people share our cultural perspective. My hope is that the Muslims will too, given time. My wish is for a truly secular state where religion is a personal choice and kept well away from all institutions – religious schools being the most heinous.
Sorry Opher but that is so exaggerated, do you honestly believe every single person living abroad does not accept the rules and culture of the country they have chosen to live in. I agree about a certain group of people who go to Spain on holiday and demand “fish and chips and the mirror” and do nothing but drink and have sex on the streets, but then they do that here, please don’t tell me they don’t.
If I had gone to live in Vancouver as I was asked all those years ago, I would have lived as the Canadians did, not expect them to adapt to my ways. We have people come into this country who refuse to adapt to our way of life, they want to celebrate their beliefs fine, do it but not to the extent of taking over our culture. Look at Cities here how many Mosques are there in every City, come to that Towns. Schools where more than likely the first language spoken is not English. This is England, they should speak our language and adapt to our ways. I totally resent the way their women are allowed to wear Ajib, I like to look people in the face not have these “eyes” staring at me, I find it offensive, good for France and their ruling, our women are looked down on. The way a gang were allowed to rape young girls and use them as sex slaves for years, it was known to the Police, what did they do NOTHING until they were forced to.
Now you can call me a racist, I really don’t care I know what I am, I have my views to which I am entitled. I recall all those years ago when I went to America and I was staying in Englewood New Jersey (it was so nice then, dread to think what it is like now) and I came across the first instance of Racism, I was waiting to be served behind a coloured Lady, the assistant white in the store ignored the coloured Lady and turned to me I told her the lady in front of me should be served and was told it could wait, but I insisted she be served as she was before me. That was horrifying for me to see and hear – look at all of us now. I have to live here and watch this Country going like America in many respects, the gang culture with the Police too bloody scared to come out to them, remember the riots in London and the burnings of properties, while the Police stayed inside. Young Blacks terrorising estates/drugs like water no control over them. In many ways at 66 I am glad that I have less years ahead and more behind, for I remember growing up in the 50/60 even the 70 were good, this Country had standards we knew who we were, there were always bad ones that I accept, but look at us now, people scared to go out at night. My own Son confronted last night as he took our dog for a walk along the front, a group of four stopped him, now David is 34 but he said he nearly shitted himself when these four stopped him, they asked him to take a photo of them they handed David their phone to do so and he said each had a bottle in their hands and they absolutely stunk of booze, now it may have been different they could have turned on him, now days they will knife you for no reason.
It’s all very well to sit there and claim the rights of others Opher, what about our bloody rights do we not have any. The sooner we come out of Europe the better, I was for staying in but not anymore. Angela Merkel has caused irreparable damage to Europe. Look at Germany and the Neo Nazis/Far Right more and more ordinary Germans won’t tolerate what is going on, I like the Germans always have. David has a Romanian working for him, back in Romania and he told David several years ago that he was so glad that the “UK will be taking all our shit, we can make a good Romania then”, and Patrick was so right. You have all these young men from all over descending on Europe, they think they can do what they want, like RAPE, and disgusting that the Rapist in Germany one of the migrants, has been cleared. You live in a Village, you don’t have to put up with the drugs/the thugs/the violence night after night like people living in the Cities and Towns. Clacton-on-Sea is big enough and was nice, 35 years living here I have seen such decline, I am lucky I still live in a much sought after area, but others are not so lucky. We have immigrants/migrants/criminals left out of prison to live here/drunks/druggies you name it. I don’t know how many miles it is from here we have an area called Jaywick (recently to my embarrassment on TV) it is claimed the poorest area in Europe – nothing but scum, while the taxpayers keep them. No action taken. We need firm Government not Cameron, not Corbyn – someone has to come along, if there was someone like Trump I would vote for him. We have the only UKIP Politician, Carswell who was a Tory.
I FEAR FOR MY COUNTRY, I FEAR FOR MY SONS neither of them are exactly street wise, I hope one day they will settle down and find happiness maybe Children, I won’t see it, but I hope if it gets too bad here they will clear out, to where is the problem. Unless something is done soon it will all be too late. Blair the bastard is responsible for a lot of what has gone on in this Country from the time he took power. I remember a UK in particular ENGLAND that one was proud to come from, proud to say I am English – now I am not sure. When the bombs start here and they will and their supporters mingle amongst us, while our Soldiers do the dirty work, while the SAS keep us safe in our beds, if we only knew the half of what these brave people did. When we become the minority, what then Opher?
I know most British abroad do not integrate. They do not even live within the law. I have friends and acquaintances who live in Saudi and Kuwait who brew alcohol and wear western clothes, live in enclaves and segregate themselves.
I am an antitheist. I dislike mosques and religious crap. Good on France for outlawing hijabs. We should do that here.
When public discourse is dominated by slogans rather than ruled by reason, it’s easy to get away with all kinds of nonsense!
I agree Dave – Trump personifies that! All he speaks are populist slogans. There is no substance to address the underlying issues.
Do any of them, Trump promises hope and that is what those people who will vote for him want, HOPE.
Even if the hope is empty and he is exploiting their fears? And they will end up worse off?
They don’t want hope, they want proper solutions with intelligent answers – not populist slogans to cynically win votes.
Trump as I said in the grand scheme of things is not super rich. He is rich but far below many.
He has very admirable business skills in that he collects people who can work together to build something from scratch. Just the skill of being able to identify and collect is extremely rare. The rewards are 1 + 1 = 3. He keeps the 2 in the business otherwise it cannot grow and invests the 1 into another venture. It’s that simple. It’s that easy if you understand big business. He does big time business, therefore, everything is in big figure money terms. If we didn’t have that kind of mentality we’d all be nations of corner shops. I cannot see the problem with investing one’s own money to develop thousands of jobs. What’s the alternative – we crawl back to Victorian workhouses or Pol Pot, where anybody with a modicum of skill is executed? I don’t know, but I think people have to widen their general (if any) viewpoint on the business world. Without it we are doomed to purgatory.
Actually, I am surprised at all the negative vitriol. For the first time in our living memory (except peanut farmer Carter) here is a guy with a phenomenal business acumen who wants to be President. For the first time that candidate isn’t an ex-militarist, a war-monger, a self-interested corrupt liar, an ex-actor, a self-made son, a university hob-knober. Here is a guy that can go no further in his chosen professional field, that has no interest or need to scam a few million dollars into his own and family pockets. A guy that has all the credentials necessary to run a huge business. The USA is that huge business – that’s all it is and nothing more. But lo and behold I hear them cry, he’s rich! How awful that a man who could actually pin-point Lebanon on a map has the audacity to step forward to the mark. The detracting miniscule toy-brains at work behind the scenes or in the audience that express negativity to this could not write on the back of a postage stamp one single reason why he does not qualify for the job. Yet because he does not just talk in blithe sentiment about how much he loves America, how proud he is to be American and actually has wow – something else serious to say that might actually be a resolution to a major problem, the sheeples are shocked and worried. He’s not going to need 400 government advisors spending hundreds of hours deciding on whether or not it is a good idea to perhaps spend more effort on national security. He will because he said he will.
What most people outwith California may not realise is that currently under Californian law an illegal immigrant can obtain a drivers licence and with that licence can then become registered on the electoral register. Once entered upon that register they cannot be deported as an illegal immigrant, regardless of any previous criminal background that would have automatically barred them from entry had they made an application for general visa entry. I can understand why Trump may have issues with that. I can understand why so many Californians are outraged at the number of crazy car wrecks on their highways. I can understand the need to eradicate organised Latino gang culture. How many prisons do they need to keep building to cope with their inherent criminality. For decades they’ve sat and watched it all escalating out of control. The answer isn’t with a friendly chat but a big heavy metal door slammed back in their faces. If Mexico can build a wall to secure their southern border I’m fairly certain that Trump will manage to build his too.
I see no reason why for the foreseeable future that a world travel embargo cannot be implemented until such time as we work out who is who and who is where. It’s by far the simplest and most sensible approach. Radical but worthwhile. We can’t go on with the way it is today as it’s only going to become worse. Our friends in Saudi could not give a damn, they will never step up and call order. We have to do it for them, as per usual.
A country is not a business. A country is its people, its land and its environment. Trump may be a good businessman. He may have latched on to the populist slogans and arrived at a time of austerity in which they chime with many of the people, but he is a black and white sloganeer. He focuses on the worst aspects of human nature and rubs salt in. He throws petrol on the fire and highlights scapegoats. (There is the analogy with Hitler) He is a typical populist who takes the peoples’ fears and uses that to drum up support. He focuses on minorities and targets them just like the Southern politicians did with fear of the blacks. So we have Muslims, Hispanics, Terrorism, poverty, immigration, unemployment and America’s loss of power being flaunted with simplistic slogans. He tells them he will solve all their problems. There are real problems, complex problems, difficult problems – but they won’t be solved by black and white belligerence. There are no easy answers. He will make matters worse. He will create division, fear, hatred and insularity. Most of the Republicans recognise that. They are hoorified he is being elected -and rightly so. The man is a megalomaniac of the worst kind.
America is indeed very much a business. As you stated just yesterday, it is in fact a number of different states, all with different laws, different traits etc. Their common bond is commerce. At least that was very much the impression rammed down my throat when I worked for 2 USA major international corporations. Maybe if you had had a job where you were required to make money this would be more obvious. The whole American psyche is about the dollar – those that are in business, those people that I would meet. There again they weren’t yer average trailer park dweller flipping burgers for a living. I realise that.
We are suffering from the worst aspects of human nature. There are today right now as I type exactly 198 examples of Islamic aggression taking place. To what point should we let it get to before we take action? We know that we can expect further terrorist attacks. Why not do our utmost to prevent it? Why not take preventative action instead of the usual reactive? It’s too late for talks and friendly approach. The ship has left the dock.
Opher, what else is America but MONEY, it dominates. Maybe Trump is telling lies, so what has not every Politician in every Country done so. Clinton is clean is she, she could be indicted at any moment. What Trump offers is HOPE those people who have lost everything, those people who work so hard for so little – this man comes along and says what they want to hear. Was it any different when a bastard called Blair came along said what people wanted to hear and then more or less destroyed the values of this Country and left to become SUPER RICH, have you forgot that oh and yes he was a SOCIALIST. Trump does not need endorsement from the like of Bush, the idiot or the rest of them.
No sorry. I differ there. America is much, much more than a business. People, countryside, ethos, caring, community, spirituality, artistic endeavour, nature, creatures, trees, lakes, mountains, geography. Business is only one important element. There is so much more.
The Islamist threat certainly needs countering and I’m all for wiping ISIS and its multiple other fascist groups out. Rarely do I promote violence as an answer but sometimes I do, as in this case. Knee-jerk violence is too simple.
As for the reason for this upsurge in Wahabi doctrine – I think we created it ourselves. The US foreign policy and wars waged created a response. The continuing Israeli/Palestine situation – seen (rightly or wrongly) by Arabs as the US and West bolstering up Israel, needs resolving.
The Muslims in Britain – 2,700,000 of them in 2011 – 4.5% of the population – do not all subscribe to terrorism or Wahabi doctrine. I have repeatedly said that I would like to hear those moderate Muslim voices speaking out more and making a stand against radicalism. But I fear the more we become aggressive to Muslims and alienate them the more we drive them to radicalisation. In my view we need to bring them in, include them and not isolate and marginalise them.
Money might dominate Anna but it is not the be-all and end-all. There are people, community, spirituality and nature. It’ll be there long after humanity has vanished. People were there before money was invented.
The problem is money.
Andrew, I agree with you totally. I have no Worldly experience I worked for the Prudential in London , my late Husband was The Chief Purchasing Executive, nothing to do with Assurance, he dealt with Companies, Contracts for Millions, I learned a lot – a stupid girl 30 years younger than him what did I know, but I learned what I could and I love Politics especially American. I hate to see whats going on in this Country and all the tolerant people, I don’t believe people are that tolerant they just want to be seen as good. When the bombs drop and they will, sooner than we think, terrorists living amongst us, of course they are. By the way I read what you had to say about those thousands of muslims chanting whilst corralled was it Hamburg, I would have been so terrified and lost not knowing what to do only to get out.
Well Anna – I can assure you I know a lot of tolerant people. I have spend my life fighting for equality, respect and tolerance. I’ve had friends from all ethnic groups, religious groups and nationalities. I’ve travelled the world and lived abroad. I have encountered friendly, helpful, caring people all over the world. The same minority are unpleasant, violent and mean. People are the same the world over.
There are terrorists living among us. They will likely set off some bombs and they need tracking down and bringing to justice. So far our intelligence guys have done a pretty good job in that. But not all the 2.700,000 Muslims are terrorists.
The threat is there but keep it in proportion – you are more likely to be killed by a bee or a wasp and far more likely to be killed on the road.
More people have died from bee and wasp stings in the UK than terrorist attacks in the last decade.
Traffic deaths – 2012 – 1,754 2013 – 1,713
In the worst year for terror deaths 52 people were killed in the London bombings (all the bombings) – that year 3,201 people were killed on the road.
Let us not get it out of proportion. There is hysteria at work here. Muslims aren’t bad people – a minority are. I have Muslim friends and they’d be really upset by the tone of some of this. They are people – no different.
The tone of what RACIST, call that to my face anyone. I have a right to my opinion did I say anything that was racist, no its how you always choose to see it, to fit your way of thinking. Bee stings and all the other bits, tell those figures to the families of loved ones killed in those bombings, tell it to all those injured, they would tell you precisely what to do with those figures, bloody nonsense and you know it Opher. Now I am really angry but you give me the impression like so many on the internet “well I must not be seen to be the nasty person I will agree with everything and be the earth person” well I am not like that I don’t lie I don’t know how to I tell the truth as I see it, right or wrong I will accept anyone’s point of view as long as it makes sense not just some “speech/lecture”. Stop with all these statistics, what it makes you feel good, you are not in a classroom now.
Anna – there is no need for personal abuse. I am not lecturing you or anyone by presenting facts. The classroom is the real world. Teaching is one of the most important jobs on the planet and I’m proud to have done it.
This is my blog and I put my views on it. I open it up for anyone to comment, do not ban anyone or edit any comments despite the abusive personal remarks I receive.
I argue my point of view with consistency and passion. I don’t expect everyone to agree but I am not abusive to anyone – even those who are rude.
An argument is about intelligent fact and logic. Let’s try to keep it that way.
I did not call you racist and I have never stood up for terrorists or religious nutters. But I do not blame the innocent and lump all people together.
I do not know why you think I condone the atrocious behaviour of a minority? The behaviour Andrew cites is appalling. I’ve always agreed. But it is not everyone.
I would not equate Trump to Hitler – whose speeches on the whole were written by Josef Goebbels. We don’t have an imaginary threat. We have people machine-gunning at audiences at concerts, people dining al fresco, lying sunbathing on a beach, shopping in malls, working in their offices, riding a train, flying in a plane and the list continues.
I can’t forget the time when my father had to drop what he was doing and arrange emergency air-conditioning chilling equipment to cope with the mass of bodies that fell out of the sky over Lockerbie in 1988. How long do we have to put up with this?
You might not but I would.
Yes. I’m not denying the threat. I am saying the same as you. It needs eradicating. Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Taliban ……. they are all a bunch of fascist thugs whose sadism, intolerance and ethos are barbaric and need eradicating.
But….
a. How do you propose doing that? Blaming all 2,700,000 Muslims in Britain? Locking them all up? Expelling them?
b. Starting a war with Afghanistan, Libya, Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Nigeria, Pakistan and the rest?
c. Banning Muslims from entering Britain?
I think you need to keep things in proportion. How many of the Muslims in this country back ISIS? All of them? Half? 1%?
How are you proposing to find them?
Are you proposing to bomb half the world and send our troops back in?
What are you suggesting needs to happen?
Explain your strategy. Because Trump sure as hell isn’t. He’s merely posturing. That’s easy.
Let’s have a bit more intelligence and a bit less emotion applied to the problem. What are the realistic, pragmatic answers?
I never suggested war. Never.
I said it yesterday and getting hoarse saying it.
We close our gates for a while, whittle out the bad, expel them. Start again with smarter immigration policy.
Start really effective integration programmes here.
Get them fit for work purposes as so many do not/will not.
That’s all we can do.
USA should do the same, only they don’t have quite the problems we have here in many areas – quite obviously not your village on the outskirts of …Hull!
Opher, come up here and I’ll drive you around the Pakistani areas – see what you think. We can drop into the youth community centre and enjoy the welcome. Maybe have a side bet as to which one of us will get a good kicking first.
Sounds like the start of a policy. A bit harder to implement in reality though.
There are certainly problems that require addressing. I’m all for that.
I think there are a lot of things that need coming down on hard. I am for that as well.
I hate saying this Opher and it is extremely rude of me but you have really pissed me off now, you are telling us that the Muslims all 2,7000,000 living here do not subscribe to Terrorism, you have to be joking – they are all innocent are they. Well maybe you do not get many of the 2,7000,000 in your village it’s another thing if you are living in a street surrounded by them and fearing for your life. I can’t believe you are coming out with such s..t, what book are you reading this from or what internet site. So when the bombs go off in Oxford Street, or Downing Street or wherever, these won’t be home grown terrorists I take it, so when two bastards decide to capitate another Soldier who just happens to be out, then we must talk to the two poor souls, lock them up give them four meals a day, tv/internet whatever these bastards want. No what should be brought back is Hanging for Terrorists acts and I thought that about the IRA too and their atrocities. How many more nightclubs/restaurants/hotels/beaches/offices do you need to see dead bodies, terrorists with guns killing anyone – you or me, no you will be in your village. Annoyed, yes you could say I am, I am far too passionate about things.
No. Anna. I did not say they are all innocent. Read what I say. A small minority of them are involved in supporting terrorism. Do not misrepresent what I am saying. I am not tolerant of terrorists, violence or fundamentalism. I want it rooting out and those scum wiped out.
It’s exactly the same as the Irish. Not all the Irish were terrorists. It is wrong to blame all the Irish for the atrocities committed by a minority.
You are too emotional and not thinking. What would you do with all the Muslims here? Deport them all? Lock them up?
Should we have banned Irish from coming to England and deported them in the midst of the IRA bombings?
How dare you say I am not thinking, I don’t need any lecture from you Opher, I thought better of you. Perhaps having a captive audience every day suited you. One difference you forgot about the Irish coming here, they worked (and I can’t wait for your picking that apart) and spoke English maybe some were hard to understand, but they spoke English, they worked hard and brought their families up. Regarding locking up as you put it, yes I would lock up the families of those whose sons/daughters join ISIS and go abroad. We were quick enough to lock up as you say, all the Italians during the last War.
I am fully aware that you have travelled and met more people than me, that makes you the expert then? Easy to lecture people on all your so called tolerant views Opher. Yes I am an emotional person I say it often enough I am not ashamed of it, its me I wont/ cant pretend to be someone else. I will defend anyone who is being abused verbally for whatever reason, in the past when I used to go to London with Jonathan and he would often tell me not to get involved when I saw something that I believed was wrong.
I read what you put “2,7000,000 muslims do not subscribe to terrorism”, maybe I can’t read?
I don’t take crap anymore, so don’t patronize me Opher I took enough of that in the past.
I apologise – I have reread what I wrote originally and I missed a word out -it should have read – The Muslims in Britain – 2,700,000 of them in 2011 – 4.5% of the population – do not all subscribe to terrorism or Wahabi doctrine.
It is a fact I repeated twice later – not all the Muslims here support terrorism. The ‘all’ was an important word.
But that still does not excuse the personal abuse – captive audiences suited me did it? and – I am lecturing with my so-called tolerant views on my own blog?
I am getting fed up with being abused for having been a teacher (twice today). It is a hard job. A group of 30 teenage boys five times a day does not make for an easy life. Or for promoting reasoned arguments with facts.
Likewise I think that all this is too emotional and fraught again. It makes me question why I am doing any of it. I set up my blog to share my views and have reasoned debate, to share my creativity and contact like-minded people, and to promote my books.
I think it’s run its course.
Before money was invented people swapped goods in trade. Much the same concept but not quite as fair or organised. You can’t live looking at countryside, talking about spirituality. We are no longer as a species knuckle dragging ourselves from meal to meal, retiring back to the cave for winter in our furs that we made during summer. Some of us today have much greater expectations from life. Especially those from the 1st world. I refuse to be dragged back to the past with previous levels of social depravation. I require to see the wood for the tress. I refuse to live like an indigenous sand-monkey. I refuse to be dictated to by the stupid.
There’s an interesting youtube video from Germany. Some teenage immigrant girls who have been in Germany for some time now, attending schools etc were interviewed. They have not learned very much German. They do not have any German friends as they keep to their own set. They think the German women/girls are “disgusting”.
There’s another video of Somalians in Sweden – and quite incredible it is too. They are congregated outside a social welfare office in a small town. They are screaming like banshees demanding “bigger houses”, “more welfare money”, “more clothes”, “more toys for their children”.
Another where a man demands more money for cigarettes, telephone, money for “fun”.
Another where a man complains that the school is half an hour away. The reporter tells him there is a school nearby just a few hundred metres away. The man has no idea really because he’s never left the housing complex. They just sit in these camps with no will whatsoever to start their new lives. They just want to be given everything.
You give them an inch and they do not want, but demand a mile.
Currently in terms of the countless hundreds of thousands of immigrants that have arrived in Europe from various north African and middle-eastern countries less than 5% have been able to help themselves.
In France today there is 80% of the total number of immigrants for all reasons be it European migrants or those fleeing wars that claim social welfare unemployment benefit. This figure includes all those entering France since the beginning of the economic Eurozone. 80%!
Psychological study has ascertained that the average 3rd world Muslim has an IQ of around 80.
Apparently any person needs a minimum level of 100 to be able to function productively in the western world.
All men are equal but some are more equal than others. There is a good reason for that.
So you are seriously telling me that Muslims are subnormal? Somehow evolution has conspired to create a whole race of subnormal intelligence? I’d like to read that study because I don’t believe it for one minute. As a biologist I know that is complete crap. They used to say the same thing about blacks. IQs of humans vary a little between races but hardly enough to make a jot of difference. They might be ignorant and uneducated but that does not affect IQ. IQ is constant through life. Sounds like a racist study to me.
I’m not, the report does.
If one, as you know is not encouraged at an early age to learn certain cognitive skills this has repercussions.
You know this and please don’t act surprised.
What sort of result would you expect from a person that left school at the age of 11 – as many do in Islamic countries and is now 20?
Or in the case of girls who did not go to school at all ever?
By the way if you are calling me hysterical, get your facts right. I am far from being hysterical. I have been out in the workplace, you were secure in a classroom with a steady audience to listen to you every day.
Anna – I did not say you were hysterical – I said the argument was! The whole terrorist argument is out of proportion. There is emotive argument and not much fact or strategy.
Whenever you are caught out Opher you will come out with another answer to make yourself look good. I have read the snide comments about me on here, and I don’t give a damn. You put forward these blogs and expect all to agree with you, you the Teacher, and when people “emotional” people like me don’t well then watch out.
As for the above you state “not much fact or strategy”, I think you have given enough facts don’t you. There was this guy who worked for the painting Section within Engineers and Works at the Pru. lovely handsome man, one Saturday David took a call at home to say would he go to this certain Police station as this chap had been picked up. David travelled from Benfleet back up to the City and this Police Station and low and behold there was JOE, he had been arrested on suspicion of robbing this warehouse, Joe stated he was at work and the cops being cops called him a liar. David went back to the Pru to obtain the clocking in card for Joe, and there it was the proof of the time Joe clocked in and the time he clocked out, David took it to the police station and they let Joe go, no apology forthcoming, but then one would not expect it. The real reason they arrested Joe was because as he was walking past this warehouse that had been done, cops pulled up in the car shouted “oi you”, Joe kept walking again “oi you, we are talking to you”, Joe turned around and said “my name is Joe ……. and not “oi”and he was arrested, why he really was arrested was because Joe was BLACK. I would sit on the steps and talk to Joe at lunchtime, it hurt me when he would get so called jokes aimed at him he would laugh them off but they hurt him. I would be walking back into the office, nice sunny day Joe on the steps and I would ask how he was “Anna, I am getting a nice Sun Tan” that was Joe, I never saw him as Black I saw him as Joe.
If you are asking how I feel about all the Muslims coming into England I don’t like it – they will never mix they will never speak our language and people like you will let them impose their way of life on us. Am I annoyed oh yes it’s fair to say I am annoyed, am I thinking straight YES I am doing that alright.
So you now accuse me of saying everything I say to make myself look good. I speak my mind Anna. I do not follow any populist lines. I speak my mind.
I do not and never have written snide remarks about you. I have no clue why you would think that or where you have got that from. I find that utterly insulting. I do not do things like that. Please furnish where on earth you have seen that.
Debate and disagreement is one thing. I write to start debate – not create abuse.
Once again ‘The Teacher’?
I don’t like the Muslim culture either – the sexism, intolerance and attitudes. I hate the hijabs and mosques. despise terrorism and I have repeatedly stated that.
I do not put all Muslims in the same bag.
You are not the only one left angry and frustrated by these exchanges and the personal abuse.
It seems to me that it serves little purpose and I’ve about had it. I’ve had 68 likes on what I’ve put out and the only negative responses have been from you and Andrew.
I shall take a time out and consider whether I want to go on publishing and blogging. I’m fed up with it.
Yes you are correct Opher this is your site, your forum for you to lecture on, sorry but “the classroom is the real World”, it is not – you never know I may have read that one wrong too. The World is the real thing to learn from. It is quote after quote, you put up an emotive subject what did you expect back agreeing with you? And now you are saying there is no need for abuse etc, I just have to laugh.
I don’t think that is particularly fair Opher. If you care to read what I have to say – I actually don’t forward my own personal views very much – sometimes yes, but not nearly as often as I provide factual examples and information PERTINENT to the debate.
I try to avoid going off on a tangent.
You don’t realise it but too often you speak from the heart. I like that but it’s not always relevant to the issue at hand.
What one wants isn’t always compatible with what is!
I worked in Indonesia, UAE and Maldives. Huge, medium and very small Islamic territories. I worked with and lived amongst these people. I was not an oil worker or labourer. I managed large 5-star hotels. I would have at least 400/500 staff, men and women. No women in Maldives. Only immigrant women in UAE.
I learned to speak a bit of Bahasa Indonesia. At least enough to get me through my day but not for an in depth discussion.
I had to make large sums of money. I had to educate my staff because they were uneducated. My female senior staff had to show the younger staff how to use a toilet properly and the necessity of washing one’s hands afterwards. Start from there!
Had I worked in Saudi, I would NOT be permitted to live amongst Arab people – I would HAVE to live in a compound under THEIR LAWS of foreigners living there.
I witnessed and was made aware of situations that you have never seen. The barbarity in the manner with which they treat their fellow man is beyond comprehension. But you insist on this diatribe on tolerance and care and understanding.
Where are these 68 people?
Why do they remain silent?
I have no idea why so many remain silent. It would be great if more joined in to create a spectrum of views and argument. But I think it is probably typical of most people. They either don’t have a view or do not wish to express it.
So, in summary :
Against : Trump may not be the best candidate. He has a dodgy personal history.
For : But perhaps the strongest personality in terms of life experience.
Against : A few Muslims are a threat.
For : Most Muslims live in perfect harmony.
Against : Too much immigration into Europe. Not good for any country.
For : Nearest safest place for their safety under conditions of war.
Against : Indiscriminate hatred.
For : Tolerance.
Against : Islamic demands of an Islamic lifestyle in a western society.
For : None.
Against : Excessive demands from immigrants for money and property.
For : They need something but our own people must come first.
Against : Should immigrants get to eat cake?
For : No, they should work for it.
Against : Wanton production of off-spring by some immigrants.
For : Social Responsibility rules should be introduced.
Q : Have we in the west lost the plot
A : Yes
Q : Do we need to get smarter
A : Yes and some
Q : During the 1970’s and 1990’s did David Bowie make some of the most interesting and adventurous music than any other recording artist?
A : Yes
Q : Am I done with this subject?
A : Yes and some.
I’m not sure I would have summarised it that way. Hmmmm – not convinced about Bowie either – quite like him but I wouldn’t go mad on him.
Before I bow out, I have to clear something up with you Opher, when did I say YOU made the comments re me, I never mentioned names let alone stated it was you. I know where they came from and no I will not supply you with the info you requested, if I wanted to name names I would have. You may well have felt utterly insulted, it is what you twisted what I said to make it out I was referring to you, had I been Opher I would have spoken to you sooner. I should feel insulted that you thought so low of me that I would say such a thing not to your face so to speak, but it’s pointless.
There is no more for me to say on this subject, it would appear with all those ticking yes to your blog and only two Andrew and myself questioning some of your comments – well, well! Like the Religious question I will no longer get involved in, perhaps this muslim subject is another I should stay clear of, and Trump.
OK Anna – before I go in. Let me clear up a few of your and Andrew’s misunderstandings.
Firstly – I ran a business. I lived in the real world and I did not spend my days in a classroom with a captive audience.
For twenty years I was in senior management. For five years I was Headteacher running the business that was my school – a £4 million business employing a hundred and thirty staff. Unfortunately I could only get into the classroom for four hours a week. The rest of the time I was dealing with all manner of people from politicians, police, social services, national union representatives,media, MPs, businesses and government. My job was full on from seven in the morning until nine at night five days a week and in on Weekends regularly, as well as many evenings with meetings, parents evenings and events – where I’d lock up at midnight. I had to account, manage a tight budget, hire and fire, deal with solicitors, architects, fire brigades and all manner of local firms. I was responsible for everything that happened in that school twenty four seven. If someone was climbing on the roof in the middle of the night I was to blame. Not only were the careers of my 1000 students in my hands but the jobs of all I employed. If I messed up they lost their jobs. I was threatened with prison four times. I led that school through three outstanding Ofteds. I took that school from average to one of the best in the country – you should read my education book. It tells the story and reasons. I was bloody good at what I did and there are not many firms or businesses where anyone has that level of responsibility and pressure. And no – it wasn’t the leafy lane doddle suggested in the past. Fifty percent of the students came from tough council estates and deprived backgrounds. Handling case conferences and dealing with violent abusive parents was part of my brief.
So no – I did not sit in a snug classroom with my captive audience and live in some place away from reality. Though if you think being in a classroom with a bunch of fifteen/sixteen year old boys is an easy option you should try it. And if you can’t control them and don’t know your stuff they will eat you alive. They can be vicious and feral. I’ve seen tens of good teachers broken by them and turned into nervous wrecks. I’ve also seen all those glib fools from ‘out in the real world’ who think it’s easy and make complete arses of themselves – it is the hardest job on the planet. I have the utmost respect for all the teachers I’ve worked with. They are caring, intelligent, hard working and extremely clever. They could cut it anywhere. They’re skill sets are unparalleled.
I do put up contentious issues on my blog. I do put forward my opinion. I do want debate. I do not lecture. I do not expect everyone to agree. I like arguing and debating. I used to do it all night long. I expect to lose every now and again. But I do expect clear, arguments based on facts and reasoning. I do not appreciate rudeness or abuse and I do not twist remarks – I interpret and respond. If you tell me that there have been snide remarks made about you then I am astounded. I did assume that you meant by me. It’s my blog. I read everything that goes in from everyone and I have not noticed any snide remarks – apart from ones made about me. If there were remarks I would have done something about it. I do not like it when things get personal.
Now – at this moment I am angry, frustrated and depressed.
I think, as Andrew pointed out, my writing is not reaching an audience. The blog has failed to market. Even my friends are not putting up reviews. My blog is failing to draw in people to debate. My books are selling in dribs and drabs. As Andrew also pointed out, with his comparison to Enid Blyton and Barbara Cartland – that the perception is that I go for quantity not quality. I’ve been thinking about this for a long time. I sold seven books last month. That is going nowhere.
I will likely close the blog down and retire my books in the next month. Then I will look at what I need to do again from scratch. It is pointless me working flat out to be left feeling so thoroughly miserable.
I will think on. But this is no life and I am not enjoying it. It feels unpleasant.
Anyway – I’m going in. Goodnight Anna.
I have spent the whole night and most of today thinking of the above reply from you and I shall take some more time before I answer you fully, I have made notes on everything I said and your responses and shall go over them again, to make sure I have got it right.
What I would like to say is this, I find the above worrying. I have said to you many times that you were working far too hard. I have even mentioned why not just write the one book before you start a new one. I understand you have so much going over in your mind and you want to get it all down, why not just make notes and use them when you complete the book you were working on. At present, what you have 3 books on the go? You went on holiday straight back and start writing two books on the holiday, why not make the notes for those books for later again, you are rushing them. On the last book I read I found several errors but did not want to hurt you by bringing them up to you. None of my business but I have said you were pushing yourself too much.
I understood Opher that we were Friends, as a Friend I have given you reviews on your books, admittedly I have not read all twelve I purchased. I did want to add I do not abuse a Friend. I am saddened you felt that is what I did. I have in the past had disagreements with Andrew and I would not like to think he felt I abused him. Perhaps like me you may choose to re read the conversation from yesterday and see how you were coming over. Finally the 68 that were in favour of your blog, why did they not make a comment to that effect, only two negatives you say. Opher you know as I do, as everyone else does, people tick the “like box” because it’s the thing to do, they can’t be bothered to make a comment or more likely as in my case I don’t want to offend that blogger by not ticking “like”. At least you had two that were prepared to comment.
I hope you will take the time to read what I have said. All the best, Anna.